Creation and Earth's Age

[GodsGrace]

HI wondering,

Well, let's look at how the account is written and see if we can make any 'reasonable' determination. First of all, let's determine what defines a 'day'. A normal ordinary every day, day, as we live roughly every 24 hours, is determined by the rotation of the earth. There is no need for there to be a sun or moon in the heavens for the period, defined as a 'day', to pass as the earth spins upon its axis. A day is merely the time it takes for the planet to complete one full rotation as it travels around the sun. You can check this by researching the length of a day on any of the planets and how it is determined.

If there were no sun or moon in the skies, the earth would not continue to spin on its axis.
The earth as we know it would cease to exist.

So let's put that into our equation. The earth, standing alone in the universe without even another star within the confines of the entire universe, would experience a 'day' as soon as the earth completed its first rotation upon its axis.

Do you think the Hebrews knew this 4,000 years ago?
They weren't living in England or Egypt at the time.
(where more was known about atronomy).

Then God further defines the day as encompassing 'one' evening and 'one' morning. Now, I don't know about you but I have a difficult time resolving that God's word says, in pretty much every translation that we have so it must be fairly accurate, that the day encompassed an 'evening' and a 'morning' and then try to wrap that time around a thousand or a million or any other number of days beyond the single. Once two days of any age had passed, God's word would become inaccurate to say that there was only 'evening' and 'morning'. God's word, to be accurate, would have to explain that "and there were evenings and mornings" until at some point God moves to describing day two. But He doesn't, and I believe that God is wiser than you or I could ever be.

Was God writing at a computer or at a typewriter or just plain papyrus?
I think what He was doing was trying to explain to a primitive people how the universe got started.

Now, let's look at one of the days to see how it couldn't possibly mean some thousands or millions of years. On one of the days of God's creating this realm, He made plants. Now, I can take a plant and put it in the deepest darkest recesses of my basement and it will live fine over a 24 hour day period. But that same plant doesn't have a chance if I leave it there for a month with no sunlight to help its growth. So for the plants to be created on one roughly 24 hour day and go without sunlight for a day is certainly very, very possible. But for those same plants to be created on one 'millenial day' and to remain alive until the next 'millenial day' would actually be impossible as far as our understanding of how plants live

The above makes no sense and I can't reply to it.
Do you think MAN CAME FIRST,
or do you think PLANTS CAME FIRST?

Finally, as I've tried to explain previously, this realm in which we live, a realm that includes everything that God claims to have created in the six day account, is a miraculous event of creating a realm in which mankind could live. God did that!!! There isn't any science that can explain the actions involved in a miraculous event.

Agreed.

Science can't explain how the sea parted or the sun stood still in the sky, or a woman being pregnant, though never having sexual relations. I mean let's be real for just a moment can we? Since the dawn of time, so far as anyone knows, there has never been a fertilized ovum to become a human being that didn't have male sperm introduced into the ovum. It just takes the two parts, one coming from the woman and one coming from the man to create a human being. So, again, if your faith is so grounded in science, then why can't science tell you how Mary became pregnant?

Agreed.

Except we might have an explanation for the parting of the seas.
But no reason to get into it.

So, trust your science all you care to, but I stand against such teaching, as do the Scriptures: Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living. "Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living."

Have we met?
You know that I trust science?
How do you assume so much about a member without ASKING them what they believe first?

You see, science is the study of the basic principles of this world. It's how science makes its conclusions. It studies an event or object, using the basic principles of how this world operates, to make a determination about its past. The Scriptures warn us of using that method to determine truth. "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, RATHER THAN ON CHRIST."

What I believe is not hallow and deceptive.
Maybe you don't depend on science ENOUGH?

That's what science is. It takes what already exists and, through study of the basic principles, makes some determinations about that event or object. But God has given us, I believe, a true and accurate explanation of how all of those stars and planets and asteroids and comets came to exist....God commanded and they became.

Agreed.

So for me, it's a simple operation that God completed in six rotations of the planet. On the sixth day of which He created mankind, of whom the first was named Adam. Adam even makes the claim that his wife Eve, would be the mother of all mankind. "Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living."

So the earth was made in six days.
How do you explain the Grand Canyon?

Then once Adam is created he lives 130 years and has a son named Seth. Now, I don't know about you, but that pretty much denies this understanding that the person 'Adam' is some typecast and not a real living person. But as we follow the generations, that God also included in His word so that we might know the truth about the creation, we find that it's really only been about 6,000 years since day 1 when God said, "Let there be light!"

Miamited,
You're either going to have to lock yourself up in your home and not read anything and not listen to anything or you're going to run into some difficulties. I firmly believe that if you don't begin to accept some findings that have been empirically proven, you will, one day, begin to question your faith.

So recap. It is my understanding that this realm, which is our universe, was really created in 6 rotations of the earth. It is my understanding that the amount of time that has passed in this realm of God's creating is about 6,000 years. It is my understanding that 'science' is just doing the best that they can with working out, through the basic principles (laws), how we got here. But they're wrong! And they have to be wrong because they only deal with the basic principles. They give no quarter to any event being a miracle and honestly have no way to 'test' how a miracle happens.

Miracles cannot be proven. I agree.
Science works on knowing how the universe got here.
I don't know of any science that claims they know how life began.
They do put forth theories, but none of those theories have been empirically proven.
And they most probably never will.

Science can't tell me 'how' the Red Sea parted that would allow for a multitude of people to just walk through a chasm of water on dry ground. Science can't tell me 'how' the sun stood in the sky over Israel for nearly a whole day. Science can't tell me how a virgin wound up pregnant. Why can't science tell me these things? Because science deals with the basic principles that govern the earth and creation. Anything that really is a miracle...science doesn't have a clue.

I'm sorry and I know that it's going to be tough for you to grasp, but I firmly believe that this discussion that we are having is exactly why Paul wrote this piece of Scripture warning those who are God's children to understand that explanations that are based on the basic philosophy (knowledge) of this world are not to be trusted by God's children. Now, what the rest of the lost world wants to believe? Well, that's likely going to be any explanation which removes God from the operation.

God bless,
Ted

A lot of God's children are scientists.
What do you make of that?

 

[GodsGrace]

Science tells me the solar system is an expensive atomic clock. The 365 day clock of rears gon by was complex for its day.

The solar lunar clock is a worldwide accurate clock. Stone henge works as a receiver.

21 December was the shortest daylight of 2022.

We were discussing time on that day.

If days 1, 2, 3, were long then that fits too. I was not there in the flesh, but I really trust the Bible.

Another interesting sedimentary ages related fact. Three? ages of growth and extension would produce layers of evidence. The end age would view the record with gaps.

Hey what are folks without electricity going to do, but sit around and think.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I trust the bible too.
But I don't believe Genesis 1 and 2 are historical facts.
That doesn't mean that there is no truth in them.

 

[dwb001]

Very good point.
Maybe Calvinists are right then?
Maybe God planned to put evil into the universe and also into man.

I prefer to believe that He didn't - at least from what I can glean from what Jesus taught us about Him.
And if Jesus cannot be relied upon, well then, poof - it's all over anyway.
1 Corinthians 15:17

The universe is chock full of good and evil.
Genesis is an attempt to explain HOW it got here....
or, at least, how it got into man.

Maybe there were beings living outside of the Garden and God wanted to create something special (us),
but, alas, we couldn't obey well enough AND maintain our free will.

Maybe God just wanted to begin a new race of people...

I think we should stick to the Genesis account and not wander too far from it...
However, I do believe that it is not a literal account. The snake represented evil.
I don't believe snakes could speak...OR, maybe they did in that particular case.

IOW, I think we should keep an open mind and not be too sure about anything that is not
specifically stated.

I gather from this post that you do not believe in the Genesis historical account.
Therefore you don't believe that Jesus was required to die for salvation.
Therefore you are not a Christian.
So why should you be listened to?

I have stated before why Genesis is required to be true in order for Jesus' sacrifice to be valid.
So from now on I will take your posts as a heathen or heretic posting. Alright?

If Adam did not bring sin into the world then Jesus was not required to fix it. That is your position.

 

[GodsGrace]

Daniel 12 may pretty much support that thought.

eddif

I'll be reading it again.
But, I must be honest and say that Daniel and Revelation totally confuse me.

 

[GodsGrace]

I gather from this post that you do not believe in the Genesis historical account.
Therefore you don't believe that Jesus was required to die for salvation.
Therefore you are not a Christian.
So why should you be listened to?

I have stated before why Genesis is required to be true in order for Jesus' sacrifice to be valid.
So from now on I will take your posts as a heathen or heretic posting. Alright?

If Adam did not bring sin into the world then Jesus was not required to fix it. That is your position.

Genesis IS NOT a historical account.
If you believe I'm not Christian, so be it.
You are breaking TOS rules, but I'm not one to report anything.

No one should listen TO ME
and no one should listen TO YOU.

We all should be listening to God.

You can consider me as a heathen and my posts as heretical.
You are free to do as you please.

I hope you've studied the theories of the atonement.
You seem to have God in some little box you've created for Him.

Fortunately for us, He will not remain locked up in there.

God's blessings be with you.

 

[dwb001]

Genesis IS NOT a historical account.
If you believe I'm not Christian, so be it.
You are breaking TOS rules, but I'm not one to report anything.

No one should listen TO ME
and no one should listen TO YOU.

We all should be listening to God.

You can consider me as a heathen and my posts as heretical.
You are free to do as you please.

I hope you've studied the theories of the atonement.
You seem to have God in some little box you've created for Him.

Fortunately for us, He will not remain locked up in there.

God's blessings be with you.

What rule have I broken. I put out my case and allowed you to change my mind. But instead you gave me permission to call you a non-Christian.

If we should listen to God, why are you not believing that Genesis is what God told to Adam? Why are you denying what is written?

What about atonement? What box have I put God in?

You place God in a box bound by "science". I allow God to say what He did in the first week... and I believe Him. Obviously you do not believe what God said He did in the first week.

 

[GodsGrace]

What rule have I broken. I put out my case and allowed you to change my mind. But instead you gave me permission to call you a non-Christian.

I'm not here to change your mind D. I'm here to discuss different theories pertaining to Christianity.
The rules: One is that you cannot tell another member what he believes or thinks, you cannot put words into
members mouths. This gets some angry and does not make for good conversation.
The other is that it is not for us to state that one is not Christian or to make any derogatory remark about their faith or church. (for the same reason).

If we should listen to God, why are you not believing that Genesis is what God told to Adam? Why are you denying what is written?

Did I say I don't believe what God told Adam?
Do you know about the Edenic Covenant?
The Adamic Covenant?
How could I deny what is written?
How could I know those two Covenants and not believe God and Adam had an agreement?
You shouldn't jump to conclusions about other members.

I said that I don't believe God created in 24 hour periods.
Many Christian and Jewish Scholars agree.
You don't have to.
We're just talking here.
Do you understand what makes a person be Christian?
If you think it's their understanding of Genesis, then you'll have to restudy what makes one be Christian.

What about atonement? What box have I put God in?

You said the entire concept of atonement lies in the creation account.
I understand why you say that - I even stated that you made a good point.
However, there are a few atonement theories...they're based on facts other, or including,
the Genesis account which states that man is born with a sinful nature and attempts to describe WHY.
or HOW.
It doesn't matter how long it took the universe to be created...

You place God in a box bound by "science". I allow God to say what He did in the first week... and I believe Him. Obviously you do not believe what God said He did in the first week.

If you reread my post, you'll find that I THINK AND HOPE I said that God will not stay put in ANY box.
I give Him total freedom, something we all should do.

 

[dwb001]

I'm not here to change your mind D. I'm here to discuss different theories pertaining to Christianity.
The rules: One is that you cannot tell another member what he believes or thinks, you cannot put words into
members mouths. This gets some angry and does not make for good conversation.
The other is that it is not for us to state that one is not Christian or to make any derogatory remark about their faith or church. (for the same reason).


Did I say I don't believe what God told Adam?
Do you know about the Edenic Covenant?
The Adamic Covenant?
How could I deny what is written?
How could I know those two Covenants and not believe God and Adam had an agreement?
You shouldn't jump to conclusions about other members.

I said that I don't believe God created in 24 hour periods.
Many Christian and Jewish Scholars agree.
You don't have to.
We're just talking here.
Do you understand what makes a person be Christian?
If you think it's their understanding of Genesis, then you'll have to restudy what makes one be Christian.



You said the entire concept of atonement lies in the creation account.
I understand why you say that - I even stated that you made a good point.
However, there are a few atonement theories...they're based on facts other, or including,
the Genesis account which states that man is born with a sinful nature and attempts to describe WHY.
or HOW.
It doesn't matter how long it took the universe to be created...


If you reread my post, you'll find that I THINK AND HOPE I said that God will not stay put in ANY box.
I give Him total freedom, something we all should do.

Ok, lets try to answer some of your questions and maybe ask a few of my own.

I can't find the rule you are citing in the terms of service. Did you just make something up? Or did you paraphrase the rule to fit your narrative?

You say you don't believe in 24hr days of creation... but this is what God told Adam, otherwise how would Adam know.
Eden and Adam covenants... don't know them by that name.
You deny what is written by your next paragraph.
You can know of a theory and not believe in it... like myself and evolution or old earth creationism.
I didn't jump to conclusions... I tried to follow your own posts and logic... and gave you opportunity to rebut my conclusions.

Next paragraph...
You don't believe in 24hr days of creation... fine... but you are arguing with the Bible, not me.
Others have your opinion as well... So the Great Apostasy is real and is plainly visible. Truth seldom comes via consensus.
Thanks for allowing me to disagree.
Just talking... well iron sharpening iron creates sparks.
If you hold to Genesis being a fiction... then why would the rest of the Bible not be a fiction? If being a Christian is believing in God... then denying God's Word would be a hurdle that may not be surmountable.

You misrepresent me with this next sentence. I am just pointing out that your foundation is built on sand if you are placing Genesis 1-2 into the category of metaphor.
It does make a difference in how long the universe was created. Billions of years and God is irrelevant. 6 days and God is truthful and relevant.


And finally... You don't put God in a box??? But God said it took Him 6 days to make the whole shebang... Your box excludes the possibility of that. So you have God in a box of "science". Why don't you allow Him to say how long something took? Why not allow God to create everything in 6 days? Sounds like a lack of faith in Gods Word to me.

 

[miamited]

Hi wondering

If there were no sun or moon in the skies, the earth would not continue to spin on its axis.
The earth as we know it would cease to exist.

That's probably what some might tell you, but if God commands a planetary body to exist, then it exists. I find it fairly odd that someone would think that because the sun or moon didn't exist the earth would cease to exist. Look, God made an iron ax head to float in regular ordinary standard water. Personally, when someone says to me that something that God has done is impossible. I refer them to the Scriptures that tell us that nothing is impossible for God.

Now, I understand that you've been taught these 'facts' and you somehow have decided to believe them, but let me ask you a question: Why would the earth cease to exist if there was no sun or moon?

Do you think the Hebrews knew this 4,000 years ago?
They weren't living in England or Egypt at the time.

I'm sorry, but how is it that what someone knows or believes, or a group of people in this case, have any bearing on what God has done. God is God. He doesn't operate like we do. Let me ask you a question: Because there are people, and it's a fairly good sized group, that don't believe in God...does that mean then that God doesn't exist. Because pretty much all of the people of the Middle East believe that Muhammed is the true
son of God, does that make it so? Does God not exist when we're somewhere that people don't understand, know, or believe in Him? Because they're operating on what they think they know, too, Do you really not see that the words in the Scriptures, as far as their authorship, has nothing to do with what some group of people might or might not believe at some point. Get this! Just because someone doesn't know or understand an event surely can't mean that the event itself couldn't happen!!!!

Was God writing at a computer or at a typewriter or just plain papyrus?
I think what He was doing was trying to explain to a primitive people how the universe got started.

God was writing in the exact way that Paul tells us in the Scriptures that He did. Men of God were led by the guidance, knowledge and wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Daniel had no idea that the timeline that he wrote for us in his writings would come to pass as it did. Daniel told us that at the moment of the signing of a decree, that the clock would start. Now, that decree didn't come for 50 years or so after Daniel died. How did Daniel have even an inkling of a clue that there would be some decree issued to restore Jerusalem? How did Daniel know that that decree that was still several decades away from when he wrote to us would somehow start a countdown until Messiah was here? Friend, I'm sorry that you aren't understanding this, but a lot of the people who wrote in the Scriptures didn't have a clue what they were really writing. Many of the prophets made prophecies that wouldn't come about until well after their deaths. How did they know? Well, I'll tell you how they knew. Because it was God's Spirit leading them to write the things that they wrote. That's exactly what Paul tells us.

So please understand that an individual's personal knowledge of things has nothing to do with what was written in the Scriptures.

The above makes no sense and I can't reply to it.
Do you think MAN CAME FIRST,
or do you think PLANTS CAME FIRST?

Well, according to the Scriptures, plants came first. That, therefore, is what I believe.

You know that I trust science?
How do you assume so much about a member without ASKING them what they believe first?

I'm just taking clues from your words.

Look, I'm 67 years old and I've been a believer for some 25 years and there have been plenty of people, even among the fellowship of believers who don't agree with me. That's ok, because I know that they're dealing from the position that is first mentioned in this post. They are lacking in the wisdom and knowledge of God. Often because of contradictory claims made by man's scientific endeavors.

God bless
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi wondering

You really got me thinking about this idea that the earth cannot exist without the sun or the moon in place.

Let me pick your knowledge a bit.

Let's suppose that for some reason the sun died tomorrow. It burned up all of its hydrogen and helium. The earth is here and it does exist and you and I are living on it. How long would it take for the earth to 'cease to exist'? By that, do you mean that if the sun were to disappear the earth would what? somehow implode or explode to be scattered all across the universe? Is that what would happen if the sun didn't exist tomorrow?

God bless
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok, lets try to answer some of your questions and maybe ask a few of my own.

I can't find the rule you are citing in the terms of service. Did you just make something up? Or did you paraphrase the rule to fit your narrative?

LOL
You're doing it again!

Here are the rules you broke...4 of them, IF I remember your post.
I do want to say that I'm not posting them as a moderator....

1.1: Grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love.; ( Mathew 7:12, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

1.2: Always tag a member that you mention in any thread.; (@ plus name)

1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)

You say you don't believe in 24hr days of creation... but this is what God told Adam, otherwise how would Adam know.

The original bible was written in Hebrew.
In the Hebrew language, words can mean something different than in English.
Many scholars accept the 7 actual day theory.
The problem arises because it has been established that the earth is about 4 billion years old.
We know this from the C 12 C14 found in rocks, and how it breaks up.

How old are rocks?

Also, I'd like to point out that the Genesis account is someone telling US what happened at that time...
It's not God telling Adam.

Someone inspired by God wrote the book of Genesis. We believe it was Moses.
What we know for certain is that real history begins with the story of Abraham.

Eden and Adam covenants... don't know them by that name.
You deny what is written by your next paragraph.
You can know of a theory and not believe in it... like myself and evolution or old earth creationism.
I didn't jump to conclusions... I tried to follow your own posts and logic... and gave you opportunity to rebut my conclusions.

I stated what I believe. I'm not one to argue over something for posts on end.
I don't believe in macro evolution BTW.
But I DO believe in an old earth...it cannot be denied.
Dinosaur bones are older than 6,000 years.

Next paragraph...
You don't believe in 24hr days of creation... fine... but you are arguing with the Bible, not me.
Others have your opinion as well... So the Great Apostasy is real and is plainly visible. Truth seldom comes via consensus.
Thanks for allowing me to disagree.

It might be apostasy,
or it might be that some findings from science are correct.

Just talking... well iron sharpening iron creates sparks.
If you hold to Genesis being a fiction... then why would the rest of the Bible not be a fiction? If being a Christian is believing in God... then denying God's Word would be a hurdle that may not be surmountable.

I never said Genesis is a fiction.
I said it's not history and it's not science, although history and science are found in it.

About believing in God and His Word.
Did you know that some believe in God and they've never read a bible?

You misrepresent me with this next sentence. I am just pointing out that your foundation is built on sand if you are placing Genesis 1-2 into the category of metaphor.
It does make a difference in how long the universe was created. Billions of years and God is irrelevant. 6 days and God is truthful and relevant.

Billions of years and God is irrelevant.
Why would that be?
Why can't God have started a great explosion 14 billion years ago and created JUST THE RIGHT ambiance for us on a tiny planet called Earth. Which took a long time to get ready.
OR
Maybe God didn't like how slow the process was going and He speeded it up in t he end?
There are different possibilities.

And finally... You don't put God in a box??? But God said it took Him 6 days to make the whole shebang... Your box excludes the possibility of that. So you have God in a box of "science". Why don't you allow Him to say how long something took? Why not allow God to create everything in 6 days? Sounds like a lack of faith in Gods Word to me.

Actually, D, I have faith in God.
To me, God's Word is Jesus.
And the Bible is the book God inspired to allow us to get to know Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering


That's probably what some might tell you, but if God commands a planetary body to exist, then it exists. I find it fairly odd that someone would think that because the sun or moon didn't exist the earth would cease to exist.

I didn't say the earth would cease to exist.
I said it would cease to exist AS WE KNOW IT.

God brought everything into being by speaking it into being.
God can do whatever He wants to do.

Look, God made an iron ax head to float in regular ordinary standard water. Personally, when someone says to me that something that God has done is impossible. I refer them to the Scriptures that tell us that nothing is impossible for God.

Now, I understand that you've been taught these 'facts' and you somehow have decided to believe them, but let me ask you a question: Why would the earth cease to exist if there was no sun or moon?

Well, unless God desired to do a miracle,
the earth would cease to exist as we know it.
If the moon disappeared, it would no longer spin on its axis.
If the sun disappeared, it would freeze.

I'm sorry, but how is it that what someone knows or believes, or a group of people in this case, have any bearing on what God has done. God is God. He doesn't operate like we do. Let me ask you a question: Because there are people, and it's a fairly good sized group, that don't believe in God...does that mean then that God doesn't exist.

Silly question.
No reply necessary.
Sorry about that.

Because pretty much all of the people of the Middle East believe that Muhammed is the true
son of God, does that make it so?

See, God is not in a box!

Does God not exist when we're somewhere that people don't understand, know, or believe in Him? Because they're operating on what they think they know, too, Do you really not see that the words in the Scriptures, as far as their authorship, has nothing to do with what some group of people might or might not believe at some point. Get this! Just because someone doesn't know or understand an event surely can't mean that the event itself couldn't happen!!!!

The above are axioms.
No reply necessary.

God was writing in the exact way that Paul tells us in the Scriptures that He did. Men of God were led by the guidance, knowledge and wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Daniel had no idea that the timeline that he wrote for us in his writings would come to pass as it did. Daniel told us that at the moment of the signing of a decree, that the clock would start. Now, that decree didn't come for 50 years or so after Daniel died. How did Daniel have even an inkling of a clue that there would be some decree issued to restore Jerusalem? How did Daniel know that that decree that was still several decades away from when he wrote to us would somehow start a countdown until Messiah was here?

God told him.

Friend, I'm sorry that you aren't understanding this, but a lot of the people who wrote in the Scriptures didn't have a clue what they were really writing. Many of the prophets made prophecies that wouldn't come about until well after their deaths. How did they know? Well, I'll tell you how they knew. Because it was God's Spirit leading them to write the things that they wrote. That's exactly what Paul tells us.

Agreed.

So please understand that an individual's personal knowledge of things has nothing to do with what was written in the Scriptures.


Well, according to the Scriptures, plants came first. That, therefore, is what I believe.

Agreed.

Look, I'm 67 years old and I've been a believer for some 25 years and there have been plenty of people, even among the fellowship of believers who don't agree with me. That's ok, because I know that they're dealing from the position that is first mentioned in this post. They are lacking in the wisdom and knowledge of God. Often because of contradictory claims made by man's scientific endeavors.

God bless
Ted

Science does not cause one to lack wisdom and the knowledge of God.
Many scientists are Christian.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering

You really got me thinking about this idea that the earth cannot exist without the sun or the moon in place.

Let me pick your knowledge a bit.

Let's suppose that for some reason the sun died tomorrow. It burned up all of its hydrogen and helium. The earth is here and it does exist and you and I are living on it. How long would it take for the earth to 'cease to exist'? By that, do you mean that if the sun were to disappear the earth would what? somehow implode or explode to be scattered all across the universe? Is that what would happen if the sun didn't exist tomorrow?

God bless
Ted

The earth would end in seconds.
We would freeze to death.
The earth would become a ball of ice.

Much like Mercury is on one side.
On one side of Mercury it's really cold.
On the other side of Mercury, it's really hot.

It's not an inhabitable planet.
Earth was made specifically to accomodate mankind.
It's called fine-tuning and God did that specifically for us.

 

[dwb001]

LOL
You're doing it again!

Here are the rules you broke...4 of them, IF I remember your post.
I do want to say that I'm not posting them as a moderator....

1.1: Grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love.; ( Mathew 7:12, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

1.2: Always tag a member that you mention in any thread.; (@ plus name)

1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

1.4: Do not misquote or misrepresent another member. Do not state a negative opinion about a member's denomination, leaders, founders, or the veracity of a member's faith. (Exodus 20:16)


The original bible was written in Hebrew.
In the Hebrew language, words can mean something different than in English.
Many scholars accept the 7 actual day theory.
The problem arises because it has been established that the earth is about 4 billion years old.
We know this from the C 12 C14 found in rocks, and how it breaks up.

How old are rocks?

Also, I'd like to point out that the Genesis account is someone telling US what happened at that time...
It's not God telling Adam.

Someone inspired by God wrote the book of Genesis. We believe it was Moses.
What we know for certain is that real history begins with the story of Abraham.



I stated what I believe. I'm not one to argue over something for posts on end.
I don't believe in macro evolution BTW.
But I DO believe in an old earth...it cannot be denied.
Dinosaur bones are older than 6,000 years.


It might be apostasy,
or it might be that some findings from science are correct.



I never said Genesis is a fiction.
I said it's not history and it's not science, although history and science are found in it.

About believing in God and His Word.
Did you know that some believe in God and they've never read a bible?



Billions of years and God is irrelevant.
Why would that be?
Why can't God have started a great explosion 14 billion years ago and created JUST THE RIGHT ambiance for us on a tiny planet called Earth. Which took a long time to get ready.
OR
Maybe God didn't like how slow the process was going and He speeded it up in t he end?
There are different possibilities.



Actually, D, I have faith in God.
To me, God's Word is Jesus.
And the Bible is the book God inspired to allow us to get to know Him.

Rule 1.1 I am speaking the truth in love... so I am following that rule.
Rule 1.2 I never referenced your name... so why would I be breaking the rule?
Rule 1.3 Trust me I am using self control and addressing the issues you raised.
Rule 1.4 I restated your position and allowed you to correct me if I got it wrong... So I didn't misrepresent your position.


Bible written in Hebrew... only partially correct. What about the NT? So if your logic is faulty on these basics then maybe we should question your other ideas.
We haven't established any age of the Earth. Not with proof. So even with 100% agreement (which you don't have) the truth may still be otherwise.
C14 in diamonds... explain.

Genesis is people telling us what happened... and how did they know? God told Adam. Simplest answer is most likely correct.
Real history started with Abraham???? Tell that to Adam. Oral history is still history.

Prove the dino bones are older than 6000 years.

I don't think you actually believe the Bible. You say you do but the correct the Bible. So that would make you God's editor. Not a job I would ever want.

I have explained before about old Earth and God's relevance before. If death was part of God's good plan then death didn't come into the world through Adam(Rom 5:8, 1 Cor 15:22). So Jesus didn't need to die. Denial of the Gospel is baked into Old Earth ideology.
Different possibilities... or eye witness testimony. If push comes to shove do you believe God or the science?

I am not questioning your faith... I question what ideas your faith is based on.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Post 22 by wondering asked the question
Was the universe 14 billion years old a the earth 4 billion years old).

No man knows the answer. The measuring is too broad.

In post 92 I answered wondering with (I read Genesis as saying earth is older than the universe). The sun, moon, stars appear on day 4.

No, they were created earlier but just put in place then. This you mentioned too.

Genesis speaks of the earth being void in the first day of creation. (Earth first)

No, In the beginning God created the heavenS and second the earth. The heavens includes the sun, moon and stars.

Then on day 4 the sun moon and stars are placed to establish time (days years) and provide light.

Correct. Made earlier.

I am going by the Genesis account and not by my speculation. That is why in post 92 I said I read.

Slightly off as Heavens come first.

If other scriptures absolutely counteract my understanding, I will look at them.

Genesis 1

In Revelation 22:5 kjv
5. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

The word is a light to my feet isn’t meant as a flashlight but that’s a metaphor for insight. The sun and moon here are metaphors.

The very presence of the Godhead? Jesus? Gives Light. You do not need a candle or sun for light.

It’s insight, not a torch to avoid stones. He’s the light of the world is insight.

So at creation you do not need the sun for light. Nothing was made without Jesus. Jesus can emit light in the NT.

No record of anyone finding their way out of a dark place by the light of Jesus unless it’s a metaphor.

Come day four (God placed the sun and stars for light). I have no idea why, except the Godhead would return to the third heaven and leave symbols as the source of light.

Made earlier just placed there.

I will listen to your 7 step order of creation scripture explanation. Please give scriptures.

Those aren’t steps.

Look I am a redneck from Mississippi. I do not have letters after my name announcing religious education. I read the Bible through dark sunshades.

eddif

Time for some light.

 

[miamited]

HI wondering

The earth would end in seconds.
We would freeze to death.

I didn't say the earth would cease to exist.

The point you seem to be proving here is that when the earth was created man could not have lived on it until God finished the other 5 days of His work. I agree. It is my understanding that, that is the entire reason that man wasn't created until day 6. Yes, as it is today, man could not live upon the earth until the sun was created, but then God was wise enough to create the sun before He made man. He's just wise that way.

If the moon disappeared, it would no longer spin on its axis.

Really huh? Hmmm, that's not really the general consensus of the scientific community:

The Earth spins because it formed in the accretion disk of a cloud of hydrogen that collapsed down from mutual gravity and needed to conserve its angular momentum. It continues to spin because of inertia.

What is causing Earth to spin? Earth has magnetic field(s) with North & South Poles. The axis of rotation is different from the magnetic poles. This difference creates force for the earth to rotate on its axis. The same is the case with all planets in the Solar System.

I don't know but you're going to have to show me why the moon controls whether or not the earth spins. According to the second explanation, if the earth, at the moment it was created had these poles and magnetic forces at play that are at play today, then the earth would have immediately started spinning on its own immediately after it was created and before there were any other heavenly bodies, which, according to both explanations, has nothing to do with the moon.

What you are likely confusing is that the moon does give us tide effects in the oceans of the world. But on a planet covered in water, I'm not sure there would be such a thing as 'high' or 'low' tide and so the moon probably wasn't needed at that point. Like I've said, God is wiser than you or I could ever hope to even imagine to be, and He created the moon when He knew the moon needed to be created to keep this newly formed realm of existence up and running.

Silly question.
No reply necessary.
Sorry about that.

Well, actually it's an entirely appropriate question. You made the claim that what's written in Genesis can't be trusted, or some such position as that, because the Hebrews didn't know things:

Do you think the Hebrews knew this 4,000 years ago?
They weren't living in England or Egypt at the time.

So, your position seems to be that the since the Hebrews didn't know the truth of such things in those days that the testimony of the Scriptures can't be trusted. However, if you're unable to answer the question, or unwilling, then it's likely because you don't have an answer for it.

Look, I'm sure you're a very fine fellow. I don't know you so, no, I can't make any determination of your faith, other than from the things that you are writing in this thread. That's what I'm basing my case on.

God bless
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

Rule 1.1 I am speaking the truth in love... so I am following that rule.
Rule 1.2 I never referenced your name... so why would I be breaking the rule?
Rule 1.3 Trust me I am using self control and addressing the issues you raised.
Rule 1.4 I restated your position and allowed you to correct me if I got it wrong... So I didn't misrepresent your position.


Bible written in Hebrew... only partially correct. What about the NT? So if your logic is faulty on these basics then maybe we should question your other ideas.
We haven't established any age of the Earth. Not with proof. So even with 100% agreement (which you don't have) the truth may still be otherwise.
C14 in diamonds... explain.

Genesis is people telling us what happened... and how did they know? God told Adam. Simplest answer is most likely correct.
Real history started with Abraham???? Tell that to Adam. Oral history is still history.

Prove the dino bones are older than 6000 years.

I don't think you actually believe the Bible. You say you do but the correct the Bible. So that would make you God's editor. Not a job I would ever want.

I have explained before about old Earth and God's relevance before. If death was part of God's good plan then death didn't come into the world through Adam(Rom 5:8, 1 Cor 15:22). So Jesus didn't need to die. Denial of the Gospel is baked into Old Earth ideology.
Different possibilities... or eye witness testimony. If push comes to shove do you believe God or the science?

I am not questioning your faith... I question what ideas your faith is based on.

Did I say C14 in diamonds?
Wow. Always thinking about diamonds.
Wonder if they took 6,000 years to form??

 

[dwb001]

Did I say C14 in diamonds?
Wow. Always thinking about diamonds.
Wonder if they took 6,000 years to form??

I said c14 in diamonds. Diamonds take weeks to form. In a lab that duplicates natural processes.
If C14 is in diamonds.... how can the Earth be old?

 

[Cooper]

Rule 1.1 I am speaking the truth in love... so I am following that rule.
Rule 1.2 I never referenced your name... so why would I be breaking the rule?
Rule 1.3 Trust me I am using self control and addressing the issues you raised.
Rule 1.4 I restated your position and allowed you to correct me if I got it wrong... So I didn't misrepresent your position.


Bible written in Hebrew... only partially correct. What about the NT? So if your logic is faulty on these basics then maybe we should question your other ideas.
We haven't established any age of the Earth. Not with proof. So even with 100% agreement (which you don't have) the truth may still be otherwise.
C14 in diamonds... explain.

Genesis is people telling us what happened... and how did they know? God told Adam. Simplest answer is most likely correct.
Real history started with Abraham???? Tell that to Adam. Oral history is still history.

Prove the dino bones are older than 6000 years.

I don't think you actually believe the Bible. You say you do but the correct the Bible. So that would make you God's editor. Not a job I would ever want.

I have explained before about old Earth and God's relevance before. If death was part of God's good plan then death didn't come into the world through Adam(Rom 5:8, 1 Cor 15:22). So Jesus didn't need to die. Denial of the Gospel is baked into Old Earth ideology.
Different possibilities... or eye witness testimony. If push comes to shove do you believe God or the science?

I am not questioning your faith... I question what ideas your faith is based on.

I will say this one more time and that is it. I am finished. The Hebrew word for day is yome and it means a period of time up to and including always, continually, everlasting, perpetually, and in the process of time. The heavens and the earth were not made in 168 earth hours. Be sensible. We are living in day seven now and look how long it is.

H3117
יוֹם
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.
Total KJV occurrences: 2295

 

[GodsGrace]

HI wondering



The point you seem to be proving here is that when the earth was created man could not have lived on it until God finished the other 5 days of His work. I agree. It is my understanding that, that is the entire reason that man wasn't created until day 6. Yes, as it is today, man could not live upon the earth until the sun was created, but then God was wise enough to create the sun before He made man. He's just wise that way.


Really huh? Hmmm, that's not really the general consensus of the scientific community:

The Earth spins because it formed in the accretion disk of a cloud of hydrogen that collapsed down from mutual gravity and needed to conserve its angular momentum. It continues to spin because of inertia.

What is causing Earth to spin? Earth has magnetic field(s) with North & South Poles. The axis of rotation is different from the magnetic poles. This difference creates force for the earth to rotate on its axis. The same is the case with all planets in the Solar System.

I don't know but you're going to have to show me why the moon controls whether or not the earth spins. According to the second explanation, if the earth, at the moment it was created had these poles and magnetic forces at play that are at play today, then the earth would have immediately started spinning on its own immediately after it was created and before there were any other heavenly bodies, which, according to both explanations, has nothing to do with the moon.

What you are likely confusing is that the moon does give us tide effects in the oceans of the world. But on a planet covered in water, I'm not sure there would be such a thing as 'high' or 'low' tide and so the moon probably wasn't needed at that point. Like I've said, God is wiser than you or I could ever hope to even imagine to be, and He created the moon when He knew the moon needed to be created to keep this newly formed realm of existence up and running.


Well, actually it's an entirely appropriate question. You made the claim that what's written in Genesis can't be trusted, or some such position as that, because the Hebrews didn't know things:

So, your position seems to be that the since the Hebrews didn't know the truth of such things in those days that the testimony of the Scriptures can't be trusted. However, if you're unable to answer the question, or unwilling, then it's likely because you don't have an answer for it.

Look, I'm sure you're a very fine fellow. I don't know you so, no, I can't make any determination of your faith, other than from the things that you are writing in this thread. That's what I'm basing my case on.

God bless
Ted

Ted,
YOU explained why the earth rotates.
I explained to you (as you requested) what would happen if the moon didn't exist.

It's different.

And I'm not a fellow.
I'm a girl.