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Crushing the Spirit of grace under foot?

J

jonahmano

Member
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:29 KJV)

One grace-preacher was preaching by quoting this verse that if you don't understand the grace and start doing works like praying, bible reading, fellowship then it's like crushing the Spirit of grace under foot.

I quickly opened my bible and read the verse and suddenly my eyes went up three verses above and I read this

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins (Hebrews 10:26 KJV)

Now my question is aren't these two verses connected? Then how come that preacher didn't take notice of the verse 26 and started instructing people on verse 29?

Your encouraging thoughts please.....
 
jonahmano said:
?????
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It should be an encouragement to you (I know it was to me) that if you do a Google search for the phrase; "crushing the spirit of grace under foot", you find zero online content. Whoever you heard this from has no online presence using that phrase.

Who preached it to you?
 
It doesn't look like trodding under foot the spirit of grace, but the Master Yeshua Himself by willfully sinning after experience sanctification, put to disgrace the Name of Yeshua, shaming Him.

as the verse is written "...who hath trodden under foot the Son of God..." which may be common today...
 
chessman said:
It should be an encouragement to you (I know it was to me) that if you do a Google search for the phrase; "crushing the spirit of grace under foot", you find zero online content. Whoever you heard this from has no online presence using that phrase.

Who preached it to you?
Click to expand...


thanks. ok what about my other question? Aren't those two verses which I have mentioned connected?
 
jonahmano said:
what about my other question? Aren't those two verses which I have mentioned connected?
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they are connected in some way sure. They are part of the flow of the message obviously. Maybe even connected to:
24 And let us think about how to stir one another up to love and good works, 25 not abandoning our meeting together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging each other, and by so much more as you see the day drawing near.

Then how come that preacher didn't take notice of the verse 26 and started instructing people on verse 29?

I would have to know who the preacher was and what point he was trying to make. Which is why I asked you who it was. Would you tell me who it was? Maybe he did notice it.
 
chessman said:
It should be an encouragement to you (I know it was to me) that if you do a Google search for the phrase; "crushing the spirit of grace under foot", you find zero online content. Whoever you heard this from has no online presence using that phrase.

Who preached it to you?
Click to expand...

That exact phrase shows zero results, but you do get results if you modify it just a little. Try leaving off the word "crushing" (to allow for other wordings) and change "under foot" to "underfoot".

"the spirit of grace underfoot"

Changing "grace" to "god" will give many more results

"the spirit of god underfoot"

The exact phrase in the OP may not be there, but the concept is there.

The TOG​
 
jonahmano said:
Now my question is aren't these two verses connected? Then how come that preacher didn't take notice of the verse 26 and started instructing people on verse 29?
Click to expand...

People do that all the time. It's often referred to as "cherry picking" verses to make a particular point. He just left out the verses that didn't fit with what he wanted to say. That's why we need to read the Bible ourselves, and not trust others to do it for us.

The TOG​
 
TOG said:
People do that all the time. It's often referred to as "cherry picking" verses to make a particular point. He just left out the verses that didn't fit with what he wanted to say. That's why we need to read the Bible ourselves, and not trust others to do it for us.

The TOG​
Click to expand...


Yeah I discussed this matter with one fella here and he was saying that verse 26 and verse 29 are not connected. Then I told him about the discussion and the google search thing and finally I said, "It's great that we have great revelation which wasn't revealed from ages (laughing in heart hahahah)
 
jonahmano

Why would a believer deny the deity of Christ? :shrug Heb 10:29..

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-29.htm
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God: this seems to be a stronger expression than crucifying him again, Hebrews 6:6 and is to be understood, not of what was in fact committed, but in will by persons; who, could they have had their will of him, would have pulled him from his throne, and trampled upon him: it is a phrase expressive of the utmost scorn, contempt, and ill usage; and which such are guilty of, who deny his deity, and eternal sonship; who render him useless in his offices, undervalue his sacrifice, despise his righteousness, and strip him of the glory of his person, office, and grace. And this is aggravated by his being the Son of God who is thus used, who became the son of man for the sake of men, is superior to men, and equal with God:

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-29.htm
and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace; by denying his being, deity, and personality; despising his powerful operations as enthusiasm; treating his extraordinary gifts as illusions; and ascribing his miracles to Satan, and representing the Gospel dictated by him as a fable, or a lie: and this is aggravated by his being "the spirit of grace"; the author, giver, and applier of all grace to the saints; and who therefore ought not to be in the least slighted, but highly esteemed and honoured; nor will such affronts go unpunished.
 
DRS81 said:
jonahmano

Why would a believer deny the deity of Christ? :shrug Heb 10:29..

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-29.htm
who hath trodden under foot the Son of God: this seems to be a stronger expression than crucifying him again, Hebrews 6:6 and is to be understood, not of what was in fact committed, but in will by persons; who, could they have had their will of him, would have pulled him from his throne, and trampled upon him: it is a phrase expressive of the utmost scorn, contempt, and ill usage; and which such are guilty of, who deny his deity, and eternal sonship; who render him useless in his offices, undervalue his sacrifice, despise his righteousness, and strip him of the glory of his person, office, and grace. And this is aggravated by his being the Son of God who is thus used, who became the son of man for the sake of men, is superior to men, and equal with God:

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/hebrews/10-29.htm
and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace; by denying his being, deity, and personality; despising his powerful operations as enthusiasm; treating his extraordinary gifts as illusions; and ascribing his miracles to Satan, and representing the Gospel dictated by him as a fable, or a lie: and this is aggravated by his being "the spirit of grace"; the author, giver, and applier of all grace to the saints; and who therefore ought not to be in the least slighted, but highly esteemed and honoured; nor will such affronts go unpunished.
Click to expand...

Gill's commentary is wrong to equate Heb 10:29 with denying the deity of the Son of God. We are specifically told what the transgression is in verse 29.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

We trample on Yeshua by rejecting his shed blood on our behalf. That occurs after a person receives Yeshua as his Savior and atoning sacrifice, but later rejects him as such. When we believe, but later renounce him as our Master and Savior, we are rejecting his shed blood for our sins. We trample on it and him. We reject that blood's sanctifying effect and no longer consider it holy. It ties into verse 26 because it is a wilful sin of unbelief.
 
I was encouraged by what this pastor said recently. It seems there is a little sanity still left in the church:

For all the believers who view nudity in entertainment, Piper asks, "Am I recrucifying Christ?"

"Christ died to purify his people. It is an absolute travesty of the cross to treat it as though Jesus died only to forgive us for the sin of watching nudity, and not to purify us for the power not to watch it," he states.

John Piper
​
Somehow the church, in general, thinks grace was given to us so we can continue in sin with impunity essentially turning grace into a license to sin. The very thing the Bible says NOT to do with grace. The Bible says grace was given to us so we can live holy, upright, watchful lives:

"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:11-13 NASB)

Grace was given us to be set free from sin, not excuse it. We trample on the blood of Christ that sanctified us, setting us apart for a holy purpose, when we purposely don't turn away from the sin that the blood of Christ washed us clean of. The warning of scripture is that those who do that can not be renewed to repentance. I'm confident that's not referring to instantly being unable to be renewed to repentance when you purposely choose to sin, but a judgment that God will pass after the individual has been given time to repent.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
I was recently encouraged by what this pastor said recently. It seems there is a little sanity still left in the church:

For all the believers who view nudity in entertainment, Piper asks, "Am I recrucifying Christ?"

"Christ died to purify his people. It is an absolute travesty of the cross to treat it as though Jesus died only to forgive us for the sin of watching nudity, and not to purify us for the power not to watch it," he states.

John Piper
​
Somehow the church, in general, thinks grace was given to us so we can continue in sin with impunity essentially turning grace into a license to sin. The very thing the Bible says NOT to do with grace. The Bible says grace was given to us so we can live holy, upright, watchful lives:

"11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:11-13 NASB)

Grace was given us to be set free from sin, not excuse it. We trample on the blood of Christ that sanctified us, setting us apart for a holy purpose, when we purposely don't turn away from the sin that the blood of Christ washed us clean of. The warning of scripture is that those who do that can not be renewed to repentance. I'm confident that's not referring to instantly being unable to be renewed to repentance, but a judgment that God will pass after the individual has been given time to repent.
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Johnny Piper. I agree with some of his statement. But I know what He means when he says," Christ died to purify His People." And that is the true travesty. A huge doctrinal error on his part. Far worse then watching nudity.

But where are you From Jethro? The Church, in general, thinks grace was given so we can continue in Sin? I am from the midwest and all the churches around here are so concerned about sin that that is all you hear about. Hour after hour after hour of don't sin. Basically the sermons are John Pipers quote that you posted above, over and over again.
 
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Sadly, the more "sin conscious" you are, the less "Son conscious" you become.
 
Willie T said:
Sadly, the more "sin conscious" you are, the less "Son conscious" you become.
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Everything starts with a knowledge and a conviction of evil. But I suppose if you stay there and don't move into grace you will certainly not become 'Son conscious'. But this hardly means we don't start with a knowledge of sin in bringing people to the grace of salvation, right?

I think what you're resisting is the incomplete teaching about sin and salvation. I agree that this incomplete teaching about sin and salvation and holy living is not going to help the 1 out of 2 CHRISTIAN men who have viewed pornography in the last year (slightly higher percentage for PASTORS).
 
gr8grace3 said:
I agree with some of his statement. But I know what He means when he says," Christ died to purify His People." And that is the true travesty. A huge doctrinal error on his part. Far worse then watching nudity.
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"...Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. 15 These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you." (Titus 2:13-15 NASB)

gr8grace3 said:
But where are you From Jethro? The Church, in general, thinks grace was given so we can continue in Sin? I am from the midwest and all the churches around here are so concerned about sin that that is all you hear about. Hour after hour after hour of don't sin. Basically the sermons are John Pipers quote that you posted above, over and over again.
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Don't misunderstand. I'm not talking about the official doctrine of some of these churches. I'm talking about what actually happens in the lives of believers. What we watch on TV and approve of is a very good example. Another one...you don't have to be legally married to be considered married. IOW, cohabitation is a growing practice of professing Christians.

I live in the Bible belt. It's amazing how drinking is so acceptable to even these staunch Bible churches. Again, not as a matter of official church doctrine, but in what they privately approve of and champion, some of whom do actually practice what they so excitedly approve of. I won't get into the tobacco issue.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Everything starts with a knowledge and a conviction of the Son.
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How do you get convicted about the Son if you don't first know what the sin is that he came to forgive?

Here's the gospel that few are hearing in the church today:

"13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away,was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' 14 "I tell you, this man went to his house justified..." (Luke 18:13-14 NASB)

It seems the gospel is all about personal achievement instead of personal holiness these days. Holiness, when it is talked about, is just a stepping stone to that personal achievement. Speaking generally, of course.
 
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