Cultivating a love for the truth… The Doctrine of Christ.

[Whatever]

No. Jesus didn’t live long enough to reach every person in the world.

But it was His death and resurrection that was for "every person in the world." It didn't even save Judas. Or the Pharisees that Jesus said their father was the devil.

Have you ever heard of the word efficacious? It is often used to describe remedies or treatments that are effective in achieving their intended outcomes.

Again, according to your interpretation of why the Father sent the Son was to save the world and you interpret that as saving every person.

It worked perfectly in my interpretation of His work, but not in yours.

 

[live2blive]

I don’t see where Jesus said the truth will save believers from the slavery to sin.

You don’t see in the following verses that Jesus said the truth will save believers from the slavery to sin?

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:31-36).

 

[JLB]

It didn't even save Judas. Or the Pharisees that Jesus said their father was the devil.

Each person must believe in order to be saved.

Believe, present tense… continual.

Judas believed, and followed Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years, was promoted to an Apostle. He was empowered by the Holy Spirit and sent out with the other eleven to preach the Gospel to the lost, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, then Judas became a traitor and betrayed Jesus Christ… and instead of repenting and being restored like Peter, he hung himself.

The only difference between Judas and Peter, was Peter returned in repentance and was forgiven and restored.

 

[JLB]

You don’t see in the following verses that Jesus said the truth will save believers from the slavery to sin?

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:31-36).

No I don’t.


I see that if continue in His word, we will know the truth and the truth will make us free.

The key: abiding or continuing in His word, so that we know the truth.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

The consequences of transgressing and not continuing in His word, (becoming involved in other doctrines) is no longer having God.




JLB

 

[Whatever]

You don’t see in the following verses that Jesus said the truth will save believers from the slavery to sin?

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. (John 8:31-36).

You left out what Jesus says about these "Jews which believed on Him." You stopped at verse 36.

John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

There is another cause and effect sentence where Jesus says the effect "not hearing God's words" is caused by because you are not of God.

Wait a minute, it began with Jews which believed in Him. How can Jesus say they do not hear God's words?
I assume that the "believe in Him" was a superficial belief. That is why Jesus said (8:31) "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

Abide means = to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry.

Jesus said: Mat_10:22 . . . But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Jesus knew these Jews would not endure to the end.
John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe . . .

 

[live2blive]

No I don’t.


I see that if continue in His word, we will know the truth and the truth will make us free.

The key: abiding or continuing in His word, so that we know the truth.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

The consequences of transgressing and not continuing in His word, (becoming involved in other doctrines) is no longer having God.




JLB

Does this mean that if today I continue in the Word I will know the truth and won't sin, and if tomorrow I don't abide in God, then I will not know the truth I know today and sin?

 

[live2blive]

You left out what Jesus says about these "Jews which believed on Him." You stopped at verse 36.

John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

John 8:47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God."

There is another cause and effect sentence where Jesus says the effect "not hearing God's words" is caused by because you are not of God.

Wait a minute, it began with Jews which believed in Him. How can Jesus say they do not hear God's words?
I assume that the "believe in Him" was a superficial belief. That is why Jesus said (8:31) "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed."

Abide means = to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry.

Jesus said: Mat_10:22 . . . But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Jesus knew these Jews would not endure to the end.
John 6:64 But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe . . .

I agree with you. Would you say that after the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, they knew the truth and their belief changed from superficial to real?

 

[Whatever]

The only difference between Judas and Peter, was Peter returned in repentance and was forgiven and restored.

Not really.
Judas:
John 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Peter:
Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail;

Jesus did not pray for Judas. Jesus knew who Judas was and what He was going to do.
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?"

He only chose Judas to fulfill a prophecy in Scripture.
John 13:17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. 18 "I do not speak concerning all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS BREAD WITH ME HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.' 19 Now I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am He.

 

[Whatever]

I agree with you. Would you say that after the disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost, they knew the truth and their belief changed from superficial to real?

Yeah, that was the whole purpose, also to help them remember everything.
John_14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

That was necessary for them to write their gospels and epistles.

 

[JLB]

Does this mean that if today I continue in the Word I will know the truth and won't sin, and if tomorrow I don't abide in God, then I will not know the truth I know today and sin?

I’m only going by what the word says.

Here is what it says…

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Adding words to what He teaches is a recipe for disaster.

It’s best to love God and fear Him, as well as keep His commandments.

 

[JLB]

Not really.
Judas:
John 13:27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly."

Yes really.

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

 

[Whatever]

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

Just 7 verses earlier Jesus blessed Peter and calls him the rock. Now Jesus rebukes him.
Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves . . .

That does not eliminate the fact that Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith not fail.

Jesus only said that one of them was a devil and it wasn't Peter.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve

 

[JLB]

Just 7 verses earlier Jesus blessed Peter and calls him the rock. Now Jesus rebukes him.
Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves . . .

That does not eliminate the fact that Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith not fail.

Jesus only said that one of them was a devil and it wasn't Peter.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, "Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?" 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve

Sorry bro but the scripture plainly says…

He said to Peter!

But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.” Matthew 16:23

 

[Whatever]

Sorry bro but the scripture plainly says…

Yeah, I know. Find one verse and ignore everything else.

 

[JLB]

You left out what Jesus says about these "Jews which believed on Him." You stopped at verse 36.

John 8:43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. John 8:31

Do you see that these were Jewish believers who believed Him?

Yet Jesus said to them… your father is the devil.

What more than believing must a person do to be saved?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yeah, I know. Find one verse and ignore everything else.

Everything else?

I gave you the clear truth that Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign with Christ in the age to come.

So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28


Judas believed, and followed Jesus Christ for 3 1/2 years, was promoted to an Apostle.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


He was empowered by the Holy Spirit and sent out with the other eleven to preach the Gospel to the lost, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils, then Judas became a traitor and betrayed Jesus Christ… and instead of repenting and being restored like Peter, he hung himself.

The only difference between Judas and Peter, was Peter returned in repentance and was forgiven and restored.

 

[Whatever]

I gave you the clear truth that Judas Iscariot was predestined to reign with Christ in the age to come.

So are you saying that Judas is with Jesus now in Heaven?

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

There you go again quoting one verse like it has no meaning but what you give it.
Matthew 10:22 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved.

Judas did not endure or follow to the end - thus he wasn't saved - thus he wasn't predestined to be saved.
Judas was the same thing the whole NT talks about when it warns of wolves in sheep's clothing.
Or false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ (2Co 11:13)

I'm pretty sure when Jesus said "they follow me" He meant follow me to the end, not follow me for a few years.

He was empowered by the Holy Spirit and sent out with the other eleven to preach the Gospel to the lost, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out devils

How do you know Judas was empowered by the Holy Spirit and did all these things? He may have went out with the other 11, but (as you like to say) there is no passage that expressly says Judas did any of these things.
Matthew 10:1 says Jesus gave them power to do these things, but do they have to have the Holy Spirit to do it if Jesus gives them the power?
Again, you are using a few verses to make up a whole theology.

 

[jonathanbrickman0000]

Indeed. It were better for Judas Iscariot, that he had never been born.

 

[Whatever]

Do you see that these were Jewish believers who believed Him?
Yet Jesus said to them… your father is the devil.
What more than believing must a person do to be saved?

They have to love Him and follow His commandments.
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, . . .
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Believe is much more than just a mental assertion.

 

[Whatever]

Indeed. It were better for Judas Iscariot, that he had never been born.

I just thought about that. Does it mean died in the womb, or never came into existence?