Cultivating a love for the truth… The Doctrine of Christ.

[JLB]

So are you saying that Judas is with Jesus now in Heaven?

No.

Judas was one of His sheep who became lost, and never repented.

Are you familiar with the principle?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

The sheep had once belonged to the sheppard, but had wandered away and become lost.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Notice in this lost state, he is called a sinner in need of repentance while the ninety nine remain just.

 

[JLB]

They have to love Him and follow His commandments.
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, . . .
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Believe is much more than just a mental assertion.

Amen!


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4

 

[Whatever]

Are you familiar with the principle?

Yes, it is the theory that a saved person can lose their salvation. That you can be born again and still go to Hell.

The lost sheep simply wandered away from the flock. He is still a sheep. He ends up being found.

Notice in this lost state, he is called a sinner in need of repentance while the ninety nine remain just.

You are missing the point of the parable.
Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, "This Man receives sinners and eats with them."

These scribes and Pharisees thought they were the ones who needed no repentance. These "sinners" Jesus was eating with were fellow Jews. They were all part of the Jewish flock. Put it together with the passage in Matthew.

Mat 18:13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.

The "ninety-nine that did not go astray" are the same as Luke's "ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance."
The scribes and Pharisee's were the ones who thought they were just and needed no repentance.
We know from the Gospels, that they were hypocrites.

All of them were sheep "Jews who believed they were right with God because Abraham was their father" and these "sinners" were not right with God in the scribes and Pharisees eyes.

You are reading our modern soteriology into Jesus' argument with the scribes and Pharisee's.

 

[JLB]

Yes, it is the theory that a saved person can lose their salvation. That you can be born again and still go to Hell.

The lost sheep simply wandered away from the flock. He is still a sheep. He ends up being found.

The principles that I mentioned in the text are what I’m asking you to see.

What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

The sheep had once belonged to the sheppard, but had wandered away and become lost.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

Notice in this lost state, he is called a sinner in need of repentance while the ninety nine remain just.

Can you see that someone in the “lost” state is no longer just?

They are lost.

Wouldn’t you agree that the lost need salvation?

 

[live2blieve]

I’m only going by what the word says.

Here is what it says…

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Adding words to what He teaches is a recipe for disaster.

It’s best to love God and fear Him, as well as keep His commandments.

Only going by what the word says also can be a recipie of disaster. Our Creator wants us to understand the word:

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Matthew 13:23).

 

[JLB]

Only going by what the word says also can be a recipie of disaster. Our Creator wants us to understand the word:

But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. (Matthew 13:23).

Yes understanding the word begins with reading what the word actually says, not what we try and force it to say.

Again adding to His word is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Whatever]

Wouldn’t you agree that the lost need salvation?

They might need salvation but that doesn't mean they will get it. Using your parable, what if the shepherd never finds the lost sheep?

 

[JLB]

They might need salvation but that doesn't mean they will get it. Using your parable, what if the shepherd never finds the lost sheep?

Exactly. The point being those of His sheep who do become lost, must repent and return to Him as we see with the prodigal son.

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.”
Luke 15:32

So we see the language of the scripture points out that when one of His sheep becomes lost, they dead; spiritually dead until they repent and return.


Lost = a sinner in need of repentance, spiritually dead until they return and are restored.

Another interesting point is found in these passages -

“And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him. And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
“But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry; for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they began to be merry. Luke 15:20-24

God is always glad when one of His own returns to Him in humility… confessing their sin and being forgiven and restored.

• Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

 

[live2blieve]

Yes understanding the word begins with reading what the word actually says, not what we try and force it to say.

Again adding to His word is a recipe for disaster.

From reading the word in John 8 and other parts of the Bible, do you understand that some disciples such as John himself eventually knew the truth and stopped sinning (became free from sin)?

 

[Whatever]

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But who was John talking about? People who are already walking in the light - Christians

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Yes, non-Christians have to confess their sins too, but it is way more than just that.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

 

[JLB]

From reading the word in John 8 and other parts of the Bible, do you understand that some disciples such as John himself eventually knew the truth and stopped sinning (became free from sin)?

Here is what John wrote -


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:8-9

 

[live2blieve]

Here is what John wrote -


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:8-9

Here is what John also wrote -

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

My question to you remains the same: From reading the word in John 8 and other parts of the Bible, do you understand that some disciples such as John himself eventually knew the truth and stopped sinning (became free from sin)? Simple yes or no will do.

 

[JLB]

do you understand that some disciples such as John himself eventually knew the truth and stopped sinning (became free from sin)?

No. No human being is free from sin until they are free from their mortal body that contains sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

What we can do is learn how to overcome the sinful inclinations of our flesh by walking according to the Spirit.

We can definitely get to the place where we longer commit the sins we used to, but as we grow closer to the Lord we will discover that what He understands is a sin, and what we understand is a sin is very different.

We can and should seek to walk free from sinning, but to be perfectly 100% sinless 100% of the time is not possible.

For instance if the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to fast and you ignore that, it’s a sin.

If the Spirit moves on you to go out on the street and feed the homeless in the freezing cold and you ignore it, it’s a sin.

Sin is not just a violation of one of the 10 commandments or lusting or coveting…. Those are easy to overcome.


Being led by the Spirit the way Jesus was led by the Spirit is where we fall short.


He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:6




JLB

 

[Whatever]

My question to you remains the same: From reading the word in John 8 and other parts of the Bible, do you understand that some disciples such as John himself eventually knew the truth and stopped sinning (became free from sin)? Simple yes or no will do.

Robertson's Word Pictures
A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here.

The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning.”
John is talking about to perform repeatedly or habitually
Kind of like what Jesus says here:

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness

1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.

Christians will sin now and then and here and there, but they should practice if less and less.

 

[live2blieve]

No. No human being is free from sin until they are free from their mortal body that contains sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

What we can do is learn how to overcome the sinful inclinations of our flesh by walking according to the Spirit.

We can definitely get to the place where we longer commit the sins we used to, but as we grow closer to the Lord we will discover that what He understands is a sin, and what we understand is a sin is very different.

We can and should seek to walk free from sinning, but to be perfectly 100% sinless 100% of the time is not possible.

For instance if the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to fast and you ignore that, it’s a sin.

If the Spirit moves on you to go out on the street and feed the homeless in the freezing cold and you ignore it, it’s a sin.

Sin is not just a violation of one of the 10 commandments or lusting or coveting…. Those are easy to overcome.


Being led by the Spirit the way Jesus was led by the Spirit is where we fall short.


He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 1 John 2:6




JLB

This contradicts the words of the Savior in John 8 and apostle John in 1 John 3:8,9. The truth can be known (1 John 5:20), and he who is born of God does not sin. The explanation was given earlier in another thread:

L

Post in thread 'A look at 1 John 3.6'

Dec 15, 2024

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. <--true believers
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. <--true believers
1Jn 2:2 He is the...

• live2blieve

 

[live2blieve]

Robertson's Word Pictures
A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here.

The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning.”
John is talking about to perform repeatedly or habitually
Kind of like what Jesus says here:

Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness

1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.

Christians will sin now and then and here and there, but they should practice if less and less.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9). To be a Christian does not automatically mean to be born of God. Please see the explanation here:

L

Post in thread 'A look at 1 John 3.6'

Dec 15, 2024

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. <--true believers
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. <--true believers
1Jn 2:2 He is the...

• live2blieve

 

[JLB]

This contradicts the words of the Savior in John 8 and apostle John in 1 John 3:8,9. The truth can be known (1 John 5:20), and he who is born of God does not sin. The explanation was given earlier in another thread:

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. 1 John 1:8-10


This is the same John who wrote John 8.


There is no contradiction.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Robertson's Word Pictures
A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here.

The present active infinitive hamartanein can only mean “and he cannot go on sinning.”
John is talking about to perform repeatedly or habitually

Isn't that a departure from "cannot go on sinning" ?
One sin is a continuation of the last sin.
The only way to not "go on sinning", is to cease from sin.

Kind of like what Jesus says here:
Matthew 13:41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness
1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.

Christians will sin now and then and here and there, but they should practice if less and less.

If those calling themselves "Christian" commit one sin, they manifest that they are not born of God.
Like false prophets, we can determine a false Christian by their fruit.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9). To be a Christian does not automatically mean to be born of God.

I disagree.
One can be a false Christian without being reborn of God's seed.

Please see the explanation here:

L

Post in thread 'A look at 1 John 3.6'

Dec 15, 2024

1Jn 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. <--true believers
1Jn 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. <--false believers
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. <--true believers
1Jn 2:2 He is the...

• live2blieve

 

[Hopeful 2]

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

It is sad that you don't think anyone walks in the light-God.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Which allows us to honestly say that we have no sin !