[_ Old Earth _] Death Before Sin

[Asimov]

Why must you always ask the same things? As if you didn't already know? In your quest to put down God and his word,you have been more
than insulting to anyone who doesn't accept what you say.
I should know what that word is suppose to mean given all the books I
read on the subject,but why don't you try and explain?

Nice excuse blue, if you're not going to say what a zygote is, then you don't know.

It's ok, blue, you can admit you don't know it.

 

[BryanJ]

Biased-- Both organizations are anti-evolution

Innaccurate-- Both articles discusses Darwinistic and pre-Darwinistic theories of evolution. Biology currently uses neo-Darwinism. The reason Darwinistic and pre-Darwinistic theories of evolution are not used is because they are not complete theories, while neo-Darwinism is.

Yes, neo-Darwinism is a theory completely full of holes and already debunked by Dr. Lee Specter, Ph.D.

As I understand it, Neo-Darwinism deals mainly with the origin of all new information needed for evolution.

Carl Weiland writes:

The problem with the NDT is not natural selectionâ€â€this is a straightforward, easily observable phenomenon, but it cannot of itself create information.
The real issue concerns mutations, the alleged source of all the new information needed for evolution. With a detailed probabilistic analysis, based upon the standard evolutionary mathematics of such authorities as Gaylord Simpson and Fisher, Spetner shows that the chance of getting the required mutations for such ‘cumulative selection’ is just way too small.

Further, grand-scale evolution (protozoa to pelicans, pomegranates, and politicians) would require a massive increase in information over time. If this happened by an accumulation of mutations, such mutations must, on average, add information. Spetner, whose level of technical knowledge of his subject is well in advance of the average biologist, shows that on theoretical grounds, this is completely precluded.

He then examines the classic textbook situations that have been used to tell students that, since adaptation by mutation and natural selection is happening in front of our eyes, this process only needs time in order to perform all the miracles credited to evolution. Spetner shows in exquisite (but clear) detail that where these changes are by genuine point mutations (rather than by the 'switching on' of existing genes) they are all, without exception, losses of information.

I'd post the rest of the article, but somehow I don't think you'd be interested.

Spetner's book is entitled Not by Chance!

As to your charge of bias, that word has been demonized. It merely means a person leans a certain way because of information he or she has acquired over time. Hopefully the information acquired has indeed been factual and not deceitful. I don't see being biased toward facts as being a bad thing, so long as when new facts are discovered one doesn't remain dogmatic about moving on.

I do a self-analysis from time to time to remain open-minded towards other's views. Your views just don't add up for me.

In my opinion, the reason evolution holds broader appeal in today's secular society is because it offers freedom from moral obligations, shackles you would call them. Since evolutionists believe the Bible holds no credibility, they can choose to live their lives as they see fit without any accountability towards Biblical morality. Evolution makes it so convenient - since we came from the animals we can act like them - having no morals. This makes a whole host of sins not sins at all but a personal choice based upon one's own morality - situational ethics it's called. If it feels right then it must be okay.
Only chaos will ensue because there then is no absolute standard to go by, only our own shifting individual standards. And if you don't believe we have chaos in the world today just pick up a newspaper.

The Nazi's had a morality of their own in which they saw the Jew's as nothing more than vermin to be exterminated. But because they didn't base their morals on Biblical standards, they saw nothing immoral about the heinous crimes they committed against humanity; they saw it as ethnic cleansing.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4162.asp



Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye no longer walk as the Gentiles also walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their heart.

It is my hope that you will come to accept Christ before it is too late for you. You don't want to hear God say on that day:

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels.

Ask yourself this question: if you're heart were to stop beating this instant, would you be ready to die? The fact that you don't believe in Heaven or Hell doesn't negate the fact they are real. Less than a second after you're dead you'll find out.

 

[Guest]

Why must you always ask the same things? As if you didn't already know? In your quest to put down God and his word,you have been more
than insulting to anyone who doesn't accept what you say.
I should know what that word is suppose to mean given all the books I
read on the subject,but why don't you try and explain?

Nice excuse blue, if you're not going to say what a zygote is, then you don't know.

It's ok, blue, you can admit you don't know it.

:roll: A zygote simply put,is a male sperm that has fertilized
a female egg. It is the joining of the male and female seeds to
produce a new life. Some people call it a ball of cells,but God calls
it life,and that is what it is,amen. A tiny new life,and thats what we
all were once upon a time. I'm sorry if you don't think I answer fast
enough,but I don't live here.

 

[Asimov]

Why must you always ask the same things? As if you didn't already know? In your quest to put down God and his word,you have been more
than insulting to anyone who doesn't accept what you say.
I should know what that word is suppose to mean given all the books I
read on the subject,but why don't you try and explain?

Nice excuse blue, if you're not going to say what a zygote is, then you don't know.

It's ok, blue, you can admit you don't know it.

:roll: A zygote simply put,is a male sperm that has fertilized
a female egg. It is the joining of the male and female seeds to
produce a new life. Some people call it a ball of cells,but God calls
it life,and that is what it is,amen. A tiny new life,and thats what we
all were once upon a time. I'm sorry if you don't think I answer fast
enough,but I don't live here.

What is the definition of life, blue? What makes something alive?

 

[Guest]

What is the definition of life, blue? What makes something alive?

:D Hello........ God of course!
"In the beginning,GOD"
All life came from God.
Life did not just get here by accident,amen.

 

[keebs]

That doesn't define life...

 

[Guest]

That doesn't define life...

:wink: Yes,it most certainly does,unless of course your a heathen.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

That doesn't define life...

:wink: Yes,it most certainly does,unless of course your a heathen.

YE GODS!
You were asked to give a simple bloody definition. YOU COULD HAVE USED A %*(#) SIMPLE DICTIONARY. Then you could have gone and used that same dictionary to fix your atrocious grammar.

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Some people call it a ball of cells,but God calls
it life,and that is what it is,amen.

I'm sorry, but I actually laughed when I read that. "A ball of cells" huh? First time I've ever heard a zygote referred to as that! lol

Anywho, yes a zygote is alive and it is human. But I just had to comment on the "ball of cells" thing - too funny!

BL

 

[Asimov]

Some people call it a ball of cells,but God calls
it life,and that is what it is,amen.

I'm sorry, but I actually laughed when I read that. "A ball of cells" huh? First time I've ever heard a zygote referred to as that! lol

Anywho, yes a zygote is alive and it is human. But I just had to comment on the "ball of cells" thing - too funny!

BL

Please define life!! Please define a human!

 

[goliwog man]

[quote="goliwog man":d8538]Faith is believing without seeing.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. heb11v1 You already have faith and you dont no it (maybe not in God but in other things) Eg if the televison book says the footies gunna come on at 8:30 your not going to ring up the station to see if its true youd trust the tv book (and if it were the penrith panthers you should tape it.... Go you mighty panthers.....) back to the subject....

Um...that's not religious faith. You intermingle the different meanings of faith as if they are one.

My faith that the footies will come on at 8:30 is the confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, being, idea, or thing. What this means is, that I accept that there is a possibility that footies will not come on at 8:00, but I trust what they say, based on evidence, reason, and logic.

Your faith in God, is religious faith. That is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Your faith and belief in God is subjective. So, please, don't go intermingling the definitions of faith like that.

I'm talking about foundations. If the foundations of your beliefs are week they will crumble. A house built on a bad foundation wont stand. Before you will find God believable you have to have the foundations. A starter is gen 1v1

My beliefs are not weak, nor are the foundations of them. Gen1v1 starts with "In the beginning God..."

What does this mean? Who is God? What is God?

How do you know your religion is right?

Is there any evidence for God existing? Is there any logical proof that an almighty being could exist, any reason to it?[/quote:d8538]

Well ill start with what i agree with. My beliefs are not weak, I agree your foundations have been grounded in evolution it wont break down easy. It will take allot to change you or change your beliefs. Earlier i think i likened your foundations to rocks not sand. But how can you build a decent house on a rock?

That is a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Well its not pen on paper. God doesnt write his messagein your hearts not in your doubt. When My mum was healed of diabettis God had just started to write his word in my heart. God doesnt need a tv book when he can right on your heart.

Actually I am intermingling faith and hope. Hope is waiting with great expectation (root meaning) when you wait on a tv show you have hope. hope is faith in action.[/b]

 

[Blue-Lightning]

Life's a bit difficult to define, isn't it? The scientific definition could only exist on the cellular level and I believe that that is any organismic state that features metabolism, response to stimuli, growth and reproduction. Of coures, a zygote features all of those cellular functions - so yes, it is alive. And define human? Any separate, individual organism featuring DNA received from two organisms who themselves had human DNA; also the only organism which has the capacity for higher thought in its mature and fully formed states.

Zygote matches both of those. Do you agree with them?

Would you argue that a zygote is not human or that it is not alive?

BL

 

[cubedbee]

Your definition of human excludes clones. Was this intentional?

 

[Blue-Lightning]

No, wasn't intentional. But since we've never observed a human clone, one doesn't exist yet... I guess my definition isn't wrong but would need to possibly be updated if a human clone ever came around.

Then again... it might now.... woooOOOOoooohhhh

;)

BL

 

[Asimov]

Well ill start with what i agree with. My beliefs are not weak, I agree your foundations have been grounded in evolution it wont break down easy. It will take allot to change you or change your beliefs. Earlier i think i likened your foundations to rocks not sand. But how can you build a decent house on a rock?

My foundations are not on evolution!! It's on truth! How can you build a decent house on a rock? Well, first you said rocks. Second many houses are built on rocks. It doesn't take a lot to change my beliefs. God simply has to tell me, which he hasn't done.

Well its not pen on paper. God doesnt write his messagein your hearts not in your doubt. When My mum was healed of diabettis God had just started to write his word in my heart. God doesnt need a tv book when he can right on your heart.

Exactly, your belief does not rest on logical proof or objective material evidence. Your belief rests on faith and feelings. These are subjective truths. They are not objective truths, and have no bearing in the real world.

Actually I am intermingling faith and hope. Hope is waiting with great expectation (root meaning) when you wait on a tv show you have hope. hope is faith in action.

Faith and feelings. That's what youre religious perspective rests on. Truth is obtanied through logic, reason, and evidence.

 

[Guest]

The definition of life is correct that we are ever changing until
death and we have the capacity for change,but it doesn't mean changing
into another species,and that has never been seen or documented.
The claim that all the species died before anyone could see them change
is a joke,just like those who call the united egg and sperm a ball of cells
like the abortionists do.
In my dictionary,human means: showing warmth,sympathy,ect...
We also know that humans are not animals because their DNA is
so different that in a crime scene it's very easy for the experts to
tell the difference between the two. Research DNA in the crime labs.,
and find out what the real experts say who are in the business of
solving crimes with actual DNA evidence.

 

[keebs]

,but it doesn't mean changing into another species

That just shows your complete lack of knowledge in the theory of evolution. If I were you, I wouldn't speak. Evolution does not say a living organism evolves over it's lifetime, it says that a population evolves over a certain number of generations.

 

[keebs]

n my dictionary,human means: showing warmth,sympathy,ect...
We also know that humans are not animals because their DNA is
so different that in a crime scene it's very easy for the experts to
tell the difference between the two.

That's funny...you say that being a human means "showing warmth, sympathy, etc...", but you also say humans commit crimes that we would need to administer DNA tests for. DNA tests are usually only used in very violent crimes, because of the cost and inconvenience. That all implies that either humans are no longer humans once they have committed these crimes (because there is an obvious lack of warmth when you are committing rape and murder), or that these people are not humans in the first place. Both of these implications are false, so your definitions are wrong. And, animal DNA has the same property that we can distinguish between two animals using DNA samples...I have no clue why you would think otherwise.

 

[Guest]

n my dictionary,human means: showing warmth,sympathy,ect...
We also know that humans are not animals because their DNA is
so different that in a crime scene it's very easy for the experts to
tell the difference between the two.

That's funny...you say that being a human means "showing warmth, sympathy, etc...", but you also say humans commit crimes that we would need to administer DNA tests for. DNA tests are usually only used in very violent crimes, because of the cost and inconvenience. That all implies that either humans are no longer humans once they have committed these crimes (because there is an obvious lack of warmth when you are committing rape and murder), or that these people are not humans in the first place. Both of these implications are false, so your definitions are wrong. And, animal DNA has the same property that we can distinguish between two animals using DNA samples...I have no clue why you would think otherwise.

8-) What a ball faced lie! I said no such thing!
DNA crime labs teach people that it is very easy to tell the
difference between animals and humans. They are willing
to share this information,even on the internet.
Hey,I didn't want to be around your kind anyway.
Just check into it yourself. I'm outta' here,Praises to God,amen.
P.S. You sure have given me alot to talk about with everyone I
know. There is no way you'll ever convince me that you are smarter
than God or the experts,amen.
Poof',Be Gone!

 

[goliwog man]

My foundations are not on evolution!! It's on truth! How can you build a decent house on a rock? Well, first you said rocks. Second many houses are built on rocks. It doesn't take a lot to change my beliefs. God simply has to tell me, which he hasn't done.

Tell me what is truth to You? You have rocks of coruuption in your foundations, God wants you to build upon the holy rock that wont crumble or fail. But first he must take out the bolders of iniquity in you life. Its one thing for God to tell you another thing for him to show you but an even greater thing for him to wright it on your heart. You must have Gods words written in your heart before your heart will want to believe.

Exactly, your belief does not rest on logical proof or objective material evidence. Your belief rests on faith and feelings. These are subjective truths. They are not objective truths, and have no bearing in the real world.

Everyone has faith in what they believe in. And what people believe has a bearing on reality. Truth? what is truth? what everyone lies about. The truth is written in john 14v6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.†This reality has a bearing on life. But more importantly after life.

Faith and feelings. That's what youre religious perspective rests on. Truth is obtanied through logic, reason, and evidence.

logic=usin common sense when theres a creation theres a creator
reason= each man does what is right in his own eyes
evidence= seek and ye shall find if you dont seek you wont find. If you have sought but havent found just wait because the vision is for yet an apointed time but in the end it shall speak and not tarry.