Death is come up into our windows!

[Free]

Certainly they are. I again ask you...who is Israel? Who is death in the windows? Please explain.

Israel is Israel and you are assuming that death is a "who". This passage is about God's judgment on Israel. What is so unclear about that? What does God's judgment usually entail?

 

[whirlwind]

Certainly they are. I again ask you...who is Israel? Who is death in the windows? Please explain.

Israel is Israel and you are assuming that death is a "who". This passage is about God's judgment on Israel. What is so unclear about that? What does God's judgment usually entail?

Does God's judgment masquerade as death coming in our windows? Does God's judgment cut off children and young men?

As believers we are Israel. The verses pertain to us.

Certainly Death is a who.

• Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

 

[Free]

Does God's judgment masquerade as death coming in our windows?

You do understand what metaphor is, yes?

Does God's judgment cut off children and young men?

Yes. Read all the instances of God's judgment against Israel.

 

[Drew]

Certainly they are. I again ask you...who is Israel? Who is death in the windows? Please explain.

Israel is Israel and you are assuming that death is a "who". This passage is about God's judgment on Israel. What is so unclear about that? What does God's judgment usually entail?

Does God's judgment masquerade as death coming in our windows? Does God's judgment cut off children and young men?

As believers we are Israel. The verses pertain to us.

Certainly Death is a who.

• Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

This passage is about judgement against Israel. The "As believers we are Israel" argument cannot be applied in carpet-bomb mode. There are indeed times when allusions to the nation of Israel indeed have some relation to believers as "true Israel". But this text from Jeremiah 9 is not one of them. The theme of Israel's sin and idolatry are central to this part of the book. The judgement described in chapter 9 is the response to that sin.

God works in history - Israel and her history matters. One cannot, or rather should not, dive down into particular texts, where the context is clearly God dealing with the nation of Israel, and draw interpretations about something else.

Here is hard evidence from the very chapter that it is Israel that is at issue here:

Their tongue is a deadly arrow;
it speaks with deceit.
With his mouth each speaks cordially to his neighbor,
but in his heart he sets a trap for him.

9 Should I not punish them for this?"
declares the LORD.
"Should I not avenge myself
on such a nation as this?"

Instead, they have followed the stubbornness of their hearts; they have followed the Baals, as their fathers taught them."

 

[whirlwind]

Does God's judgment masquerade as death coming in our windows?

You do understand what metaphor is, yes?

Does God's judgment cut off children and young men?

Yes. Read all the instances of God's judgment against Israel.

Yes Free. I understand metaphors. :yes

Thank you for answering the questions in such depth.

 

[whirlwind]

This passage is about judgement against Israel. The "As believers we are Israel" argument cannot be applied in carpet-bomb mode. There are indeed times when allusions to the nation of Israel indeed have some relation to believers as "true Israel". But this text from Jeremiah 9 is not one of them. The theme of Israel's sin and idolatry are central to this part of the book. The judgement described in chapter 9 is the response to that sin.

God works in history - Israel and her history matters. One cannot, or rather should not, dive down into particular texts, where the context is clearly God dealing with the nation of Israel, and draw interpretations about something else.

Here is hard evidence from the very chapter that it is Israel that is at issue here:

Their tongue is a deadly arrow;
it speaks with deceit.
With his mouth each speaks cordially to his neighbor,
but in his heart he sets a trap for him.

9 Should I not punish them for this?"
declares the LORD.
"Should I not avenge myself
on such a nation as this?"

Instead, they have followed the stubbornness of their hearts; they have followed the Baals, as their fathers taught them."

It is indeed about Israel Drew. It applied to Israel of that time as well as to Israel today....we are Israel.

 

[Drew]

It is indeed about Israel Drew. It applied to Israel of that time as well as to Israel today....we are Israel.

You cannot, legitimately anyway, apply the interpretive rule that "everything that is said about Israel is also about us since we are Israel". Note these things that Paul says about Israel which are clearly not true of us as "true Israel":

I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel

This is about the unbelief of the Jews, Paul is not lamenting about believers here.

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

Again, clearly a reference to national Israel and its failure to embrace her Messiah.

I could go on and on. There are many texts in the scripture that really are about Israel (the nation) and cannot be applied to "true Israel" - the church.

In Jeremiah, we have a lengthy treatment of the sins of a specific people - the nation of Israel. The judgement text at issue is about them.

 

[whirlwind]

It is indeed about Israel Drew. It applied to Israel of that time as well as to Israel today....we are Israel.

You cannot, legitimately anyway, apply the interpretive rule that "everything that is said about Israel is also about us since we are Israel". Note these things that Paul says about Israel which are clearly not true of us as "true Israel":

I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel

This is about the unbelief of the Jews, Paul is not lamenting about believers here.


What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

Again, clearly a reference to national Israel and its failure to embrace her Messiah.

I could go on and on. There are many texts in the scripture that really are about Israel (the nation) and cannot be applied to "true Israel" - the church.

In Jeremiah, we have a lengthy treatment of the sins of a specific people - the nation of Israel. The judgement text at issue is about them.

When did there become a "nation of" Israel Drew? Israel means Jacob, all twelve tribes. The Jews are the house of Judah and Christians are the house of Israel...all twelve are Israel but only the house of Judah are Jews. Paul was a Jew.

 

[Joe67]

Death is an enemy.

Some make a covenant with death.

Jesus, our Lord, through death destroyed him who had the power of death.

Moses' ministry was a ministration of death; written and engraved in stones.

The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Death is swallowed in victory.

Jesus has the keys to hell and death.

Joe

 

[whirlwind]

Death can come to us...not only in the windows of our palaces but in the windows of our carnal minds.

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[jasoncran]

some are overanazyling the scripture here. i read the bible and read it is, if it dont understand i pray and ask, the word is simple.

 

[Joe67]

Death can come to us...not only in the windows of our palaces but in the windows of our carnal minds.

WW,

Truly, truly. The carnal ( natural ) mind is death. Romans 8:6. So the warning through Jeremiah was written for us upon whom the ends of the world have come; as well as for God's elect children at the time it was given, and for others like Daniel who read the messages at a later time.

Eph 2:3-6
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: KJV

May the rich mercy of God be upon those who are not convicted of their sin(s) through the prophets. May they be quickened together with Christ (after they are convicted of their stiff neck in making a covenant with death, and of their stubbornness in making an agreement with hell ) and be made to sit together with us in heavenly places in Christ Jesus as we hear the voice of the Lord talking with us saying, " Come up here, and I will shew you things which must be in the future." Then immediately they will be in the spirit and will behold the throne of God.

This does not come about by man's will to do or man's will to believe. This comes about by the will of God, to fulfill his purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus in his grace before the world began, to the praise of his glory as he brings his family of heaven and earth together in one body, under one Head.

Phil 3:2-3
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.KJV

Joe

 

[Free]

Thank you for answering the questions in such depth.

Well, I don't see the need to say much on this matter, especially when I have been ignorantly and incorrectly accused of simply agreeing with others because I lack understanding.

If you know what metaphors are then you should realize that that passage is using metaphors in describing God's judgment on Israel. Death is death and Israel is Israel--the Jewish nation at that time which was coming under God's judgment, as verses 13-15 make very clear.

 

[Sinthesis]

This passage is about judgement against Israel. The "As believers we are Israel" argument cannot be applied in carpet-bomb mode. There are indeed times when allusions to the nation of Israel indeed have some relation to believers as "true Israel". But this text from Jeremiah 9 is not one of them. The theme of Israel's sin and idolatry are central to this part of the book. The judgement described in chapter 9 is the response to that sin.

God works in history - Israel and her history matters. One cannot, or rather should not, dive down into particular texts, where the context is clearly God dealing with the nation of Israel, and draw interpretations about something else.

Here is hard evidence from the very chapter that it is Israel that is at issue here:

Their tongue is a deadly arrow;
it speaks with deceit.
With his mouth each speaks cordially to his neighbor,
but in his heart he sets a trap for him.

9 Should I not punish them for this?"
declares the LORD.
"Should I not avenge myself
on such a nation as this?"

Instead, they have followed the stubbornness of their hearts; they have followed the Baals, as their fathers taught them."

It is indeed about Israel Drew. It applied to Israel of that time as well as to Israel today....we are Israel.

If you want to 'always be' Israel, then fine. But read ALL of Jeremiah Chapter 9 and then ask yourself why God has condemned YOU as "uncircumcised in the heart".

 

[whirlwind]

Death can come to us...not only in the windows of our palaces but in the windows of our carnal minds.

WW,

Truly, truly. The carnal ( natural ) mind is death. Romans 8:6. So the warning through Jeremiah was written for us upon whom the ends of the world have come; as well as for God's elect children at the time it was given, and for others like Daniel who read the messages at a later time.

Eph 2:3-6
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: KJV

May the rich mercy of God be upon those who are not convicted of their sin(s) through the prophets. May they be quickened together with Christ (after they are convicted of their stiff neck in making a covenant with death, and of their stubbornness in making an agreement with hell ) and be made to sit together with us in heavenly places in Christ Jesus as we hear the voice of the Lord talking with us saying, " Come up here, and I will shew you things which must be in the future." Then immediately they will be in the spirit and will behold the throne of God.

This does not come about by man's will to do or man's will to believe. This comes about by the will of God, to fulfill his purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus in his grace before the world began, to the praise of his glory as he brings his family of heaven and earth together in one body, under one Head.

Phil 3:2-3
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.KJV

Joe

Thank you Joe....wonderful Scripture and very much to the point in this thread!

 

[whirlwind]

Thank you for answering the questions in such depth.

Well, I don't see the need to say much on this matter, especially when I have been ignorantly and incorrectly accused of simply agreeing with others because I lack understanding.

If you know what metaphors are then you should realize that that passage is using metaphors in describing God's judgment on Israel. Death is death and Israel is Israel--the Jewish nation at that time which was coming under God's judgment, as verses 13-15 make very clear.

There was NO Jewish nation at that time. There was Israel. There is Israel today and although there is a present "nation of" Israel on that small spit of land...there is a much larger Israel in the world. The words of God through Jeremiah were to that much larger Israel that was scattered. They are those Christ was sent to....the "house of Israel." Today's Christians.

 

[whirlwind]

If you want to 'always be' Israel, then fine. But read ALL of Jeremiah Chapter 9 and then ask yourself why God has condemned YOU as "uncircumcised in the heart".

Israel, US...Christians, today are uncircumcised in heart....

• Jeremiah 9:2-3 Oh that I had in the wilderness a lodging place of wayfaring men; that I might leave my People, and go from them! for they be all adulterers, an assembly of treacherous men. And they bend their tongues like their bow for lies: but they are not valiant for the truth upon the earth; for the proceed from evil to evil, and they know not Me, saith the LORD.

How do we become the children He wants us to be?

• 9:20 Yet hear the word of the LORD, O ye women, and let your ear receive the word of His mouth, and teach your daughters wailing, and every one her neighbour lamentation.

We are to see and hear the spirit of His Word.....

• 2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[Free]

Thank you for answering the questions in such depth.

Well, I don't see the need to say much on this matter, especially when I have been ignorantly and incorrectly accused of simply agreeing with others because I lack understanding.

If you know what metaphors are then you should realize that that passage is using metaphors in describing God's judgment on Israel. Death is death and Israel is Israel--the Jewish nation at that time which was coming under God's judgment, as verses 13-15 make very clear.

There was NO Jewish nation at that time. There was Israel. There is Israel today and although there is a present "nation of" Israel on that small spit of land...there is a much larger Israel in the world. The words of God through Jeremiah were to that much larger Israel that was scattered. They are those Christ was sent to....the "house of Israel." Today's Christians.

You're merely trying to play a game of semantics to make something out of nothing. I suggest that you do a search on "nation" in the OT.

 

[wavy]

There was NO Jewish nation at that time.

If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever
--Jer xxxi.36

You have proven that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


Finis,
Eric

 

[(THE)]

There was NO Jewish nation at that time.

If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever
--Jer xxxi.36

You have proven that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.


Finis,
Eric

I dont understand how your scriptures proves that WW doesnt know what she is talking about....

You do understand the differance in Israel and Jew right??????

Off the bat I can tell you that there is not many that understand the split that took place........