Destined from birth… for Hell!!!

[Pastor Lyndon]

Really? I thought the elect of Calvinist theology were predestined for heaven before the foundation of the world.

Salvation of man was predestined before the foundation of the world - the whosoever shall call upon His name. Not an elected group by God's own choice! His choice is that man would choose. In this He remains sovereign, but also allows man to make a choice instead of being a programmed individual. Don't confuse God's will with God's desire. In His sovereignty He does not have to choose who will be saved and who will not. Free will does not take away from His sovereingty when He is the one who gave it.

 

[Dean]

Pastor -

I'm not saying this to be combative, I certainly know there are many verses all the way around the Sovereignty v. Free Will issue. So the following is not a rhetorical question, but a real good faith inquiry regarding scripture.

Where in the Bible does God specifically abdicate His Authority or delimit His Sovereignty regarding humanity's (or a specific person's) ultimate fate? When did this provisional transfer of Sovereignty via God's irreversible bequest take place?

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By way of disclosure (and not to divert the thread), I believe that men have free will, but I don't believe that God ultimately abdicates His Sovereignty concerning His creatures ultimate fate.

As an example, your children have free will, yet you remain Sovereign in your household - their free will is limited in that you a) won't allow your toddlers to play with knives, or b) allow your teenagers to do themselves irreparable damage with drugs.

The analogy I use to express this tension between mans "tactical" free will, and God's "strategic" sovereignty is a chess game between you and Bobby Fischer.

There need be no "restrictions" on your ability to move in whatever way you see fit. You have absolute free will to conduct your game in whatever way you see fit. Yet will the World Champion INEVITABLY control the outcome. And this mismatch in skill, intelligence, ability does not BEGIN to describe the mismatch between us and the Most High God.

 

[JM]

Why do you pray for someone if it's up to them to decide?

Who decides where you'll be born? Not all people have the chance to even deny the Gospel, born to pagan parents in pagan areas they are lost from birth.

Not all men are created equal. This is a silly idea, is the poor child given the same means as the rich child? No, they are not equal.

Have faith in God, that He is in control.

Peace

 

[Dean]

Why do you pray for someone if it's up to them to decide?

Who decides where you'll be born? Not all people have the chance to even deny the Gospel, born to pagan parents in pagan areas they are lost from birth.

Not all men are created equal. This is a silly idea, is the poor child given the same means as the rich child? No, they are not equal.

Have faith in God, that He is in control.

Peace

I agree with you, Jason, but I'm interested to learn more about PL's view.

 

[James1979]

Pastor Lyndon

Have you considered doing a study and comparing the old testament with the new testament about how salvation works or have you just based your knowledge of salvation through only the new testament?