Did Jesus Rise On Sunday ?

[TOG]

In Goshen, the blood of the Passover lamb was put onto the doorposts on the 14 day of the month, the 6th day of the week.

Where do you get that it was the 6th day of the week?

The TOG​

 

[WIP]

Imagine that you have paid for a short vacation, and the brochure said that it was supposed to last 3 days and 3 nights. You arrive at the vacation spot just before sunset on Friday night. Saturday night the tour guide reminds everybody that the plane leaves at 6 AM the next morning (Sunday). Would you consider that to have been 3 days and 3 nights, or would you, as I suspect, want a refund, because they didn't deliver what was promised?

The TOG​

When our second daughter was born, we checked into the hospital at 11:51 p.m. Thursday, July 3rd. Our daughter was born at 12:44 a.m. July 4th. My wife was released from the hospital at 3 o'clock in the afternoon on Saturday, July 5th. She was in the hospital for only about 39 hours but we were charged for 3 days hospital stay.

 

[tim-from-pa]

But... my inclusive reckoning friends, he said 3 days and 3 nights. Then he defined the day as being 12 hours in a day. There was always 12 hours in a day and went from sunrise to sunset. So in effect he was saying that a day consists from sunrise to sunset. Not part of one. That phrase is too clear to guys like me to mean anything other.

It's possible to take what we believe first, and then use historical sources and the bible "to fit" those beliefs (that's eisegesis). And again, even a kid knows to ask the question why Friday evening until Sunday pre-dawn is not 3 days and 3 nights. They usually get a 'fit the 10 pounds of fudge in a 5 pound bag' story why indeed it is 3 days and 3 nights.

However..... if you take the biblical story about Jesus coming to Bethany 6 days before the Passover, and then the next day (5 days) was his "Triumphal Entry" I find it interesting that "all of a sudden" we know how to count 5 full days (not parts) and thus get Palm Sunday until so-called Good Friday. But with his death until the resurrection, it now becomes 3-partial days just to make it fit on a Friday. Let's stay consistent. And along that line, I'm not sure why the obsession with Friday to begin with. Show those of us who do not believe it to be Friday one scripture that says the sixth day of the week. And don't bother with "the day of preparation" and the next day was a Sabbath. We already demonstrated that tells us nothing since we do not know what day of the week that special Sabbath fell on. So it has to be deduced from other facts.

Like a friend of mine says, if you have to be wrong, at least be consistent. We have to understand about time and use proper use of mathematics. The latter is very precise and is hard to dispute.

 

[Gregg]

Imagine that you have paid for a short vacation, and the brochure said that it was supposed to last 3 days and 3 nights. You arrive at the vacation spot just before sunset on Friday night. Saturday night the tour guide reminds everybody that the plane leaves at 6 AM the next morning (Sunday). Would you consider that to have been 3 days and 3 nights, or would you, as I suspect, want a refund, because they didn't deliver what was promised?

The TOG​

The Passover lamb was selected on the 10th day of Nisan. [Which looks to the Atonement 6 months later on the 10th of Tishrei]
The Passover lamb was killed on the 14th day of Nisan. [symbolizing the Crucifixion of the Lamb of God]
The Passover meal occurred on the 15th day of Nisan. [The Sabbath made for the Son of Man]
The Waving of the Sheaves was observed on the 16th day of the month. [symbolizing Christ's Resurrection]

This Day is the first day of the Omer, which begins the counting of 50 days to Pentecost, Pentecost being the 50th day.​

Therefore, Christ was crucified and died on the 14th (Jn 19:31) and raised on the 16th of Nisan (Jn 20:1) - 2 partial days and one full day.

 

[Gregg]

Where do you get that it was the 6th day of the week?

The TOG​

Christ died on the 14th of the month, the day before the Passover feast. Passover always falls on the 15th day of the month Nisan. That year, Nisan 15 fell on a Sabbath; the 7th day of the week.

So the 14th was then the 6th day of the week, which was the day of Preparation for the Sabbath, the day of Preparation for the Passover (Jn 19:14, 31).

John 19:31 refers to that day as a 'high day', when the Passover fell on a Sabbath [a double-Sabbath so to speak]; as the Passover does not always fall on a Sabbath.

 

[Deborah13]

The Passover lamb was selected on the 10th day of Nisan. [Which looks to the Atonement 6 months later on the 10th of Tishrei]
The Passover lamb was killed on the 14th day of Nisan. [symbolizing the Crucifixion of the Lamb of God]
The Passover meal occurred on the 15th day of Nisan. [The Sabbath made for the Son of Man]
The Waving of the Sheaves was observed on the 16th day of the month. [symbolizing Christ's Resurrection]

This Day is the first day of the Omer, which begins the counting of 50 days to Pentecost, Pentecost being the 50th day.​

Therefore, Christ was crucified and died on the 14th (Jn 19:31) and raised on the 16th of Nisan (Jn 20:1) - 2 partial days and one full day.

Where can you get 3 nights?
What year? How are you determining what year to say 'that year Passover fell on such and such a day?

 

[Gregg]

Where can you get 3 nights?

Please read Jocor's post #197. The night is counted with the day, even though it has not occurred. If there are three days [Friday, Saturday, Sunday] then it can be spoken of as 3 days and 3 nights.

Jn 19:31 . . . Crucifixion - the day prior to the day mentioned in Mat 27:62
Mat 27:62 . . . Sabbath - "on the morrow, which is after the Preparation" for the Sabbath [and that year for the Passover as well].
Mat 28:1 . . . the following day - "But after the sabbaths, at the dawning of the first of the sabbaths, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the grave".

 

[WalterandDebbie]

The fact that the Bible tells me that Jesus Christ was resurrected is very,very important to me.But what day it was?

On April 6, 30 A.D., Jesus Christ was crucified on Thursday, the 14th of Nisan, the day
of the Passover sacrifice, and he expired on the stake at the very moment the high priest was slaying his Passover lamb at the Temple! He was sacrificed at the very time when Jews throughout Jerusalem, were sacrificing their own Passover lambs. Thus He fulfilled the role of God’s true Passover Lamb (John 1:29). As the apostle Paul wrote: “For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth” (I Cor.5:7-8, NIV). So then, from Thursday until Sunday is the day of Jesus had rose from the dead. 3 days and three nights.

 

[Deborah13]

Please read Jocor's post #197. The night is counted with the day, even though it has not occurred. If there are three days [Friday, Saturday, Sunday] then it can be spoken of as 3 days and 3 nights.

Jn 19:31 . . . Crucifixion - the day prior to the day mentioned in Mat 27:62
Mat 27:62 . . . Sabbath - "on the morrow, which is after the Preparation" for the Sabbath [and that year for the Passover as well].
Mat 28:1 . . . the following day - "But after the sabbaths, at the dawning of the first of the sabbaths, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the grave".

My second question to you was what did you mean by on 'that' year? We start out not knowing the year because the Bible doesn't tell us what the year was.

I read very carefully what jocor posted. He provided the information asked for.
I see that it is Rabbical tradition that was derived from Leviticus 23:16 for one.
I read Leviticus 23 on this matter and also Karaite Korner (not a Messianic site, it is Jewish).
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

So here it is very clear from the scripture itself that Lord wasn't instructing 50 complete days. The feast would happen on the 50th day.

I would agree with the idea of 3 partial days including the evenings, as Genesis says an evening and morning - one day except that Jesus was specific when He said 3 days and 3 nights. So if we are using partial days for the 3 days then it would seem to me the same method should be used for the 3 nights. And they are not there for a Friday, Nisan 14.

 

[tim-from-pa]

On April 6, 30 A.D., Jesus Christ was crucified on Thursday, the 14th of Nisan, the day
of the Passover sacrifice, and he expired on the stake at the very moment the high priest was slaying his Passover lamb at the Temple! He was sacrificed at the very time when Jews throughout Jerusalem, were sacrificing their own Passover lambs. Thus He fulfilled the role of God’s true Passover Lamb (John 1:29). As the apostle Paul wrote: “For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth” (I Cor.5:7-8, NIV). So then, from Thursday until Sunday is the day of Jesus had rose from the dead. 3 days and three nights.

Lunar position was such that Nisan 14 was most likely a Friday that year on April 7. Back then they would need to sight a new moon to start the month. If anything, later if they delayed it a day, but Thursday is too early in that two weeks earlier they would not have sighted the new moon until the next night. We can never be certain the day the month starts due to weather (delays) but with the ability to calculate the moon's orbit, we can be certain what day it did not start.

Pick another year if you believe it was Thursday, but I'll give a clue. If we use 26AD-36AD only one year fit that bill, and it was in the 20's. The ten year criteria is based on when Pilate was governor, but some think that it can be further narrowed down historically to 30-34AD abouts.

 

[Gregg]

My second question to you was what did you mean by on 'that' year? We start out not knowing the year because the Bible doesn't tell us what the year was.

I read very carefully what jocor posted. He provided the information asked for.
I see that it is Rabbical tradition that was derived from Leviticus 23:16 for one.
I read Leviticus 23 on this matter and also Karaite Korner (not a Messianic site, it is Jewish).
Lev 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Lev 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

So here it is very clear from the scripture itself that Lord wasn't instructing 50 complete days. The feast would happen on the 50th day.

I would agree with the idea of 3 partial days including the evenings, as Genesis says an evening and morning - one day except that Jesus was specific when He said 3 days and 3 nights. So if we are using partial days for the 3 days then it would seem to me the same method should be used for the 3 nights. And they are not there for a Friday, Nisan 14.

Consider it this way of understanding the reconciliation of days as it is very simple and straightforward:

Starting from the day of Christ's Resurrection [the 16th of Nisan and that being one day], if you go back any further than the 14th of Nisan for His Crucifixion then you end up with more than three days. For example: to say that He was raised on the 16th but died on the 13th . . . then you have four days. Whether in full or a portion only the morning is reckoned with the evening, and the daytime with the nighttime.​

 

[Deborah13]

Consider it this way of understanding the reconciliation of days as it is very simple and straightforward:

Starting from the day of Christ's Resurrection [the 16th of Nisan and that being one day], if you go back any further than the 14th of Nisan for His Crucifixion then you end up with more than three days. For example: to say that He was raised on the 16th but died on the 13th . . . then you have four days. Whether in full or a portion only the morning is reckoned with the evening, and the daytime with the nighttime.​

I do understand that counting. I just don't agree.
I had a really good explanation of all this that was written by a man who was raised Jewish and he wrote it for other Jews. I thought I had bookmarked it but I can't find it now. Need to do some housekeeping in my favorites. :neutral

 

[tim-from-pa]

Consider it this way of understanding the reconciliation of days as it is very simple and straightforward:

Starting from the day of Christ's Resurrection [the 16th of Nisan and that being one day], if you go back any further than the 14th of Nisan for His Crucifixion then you end up with more than three days. For example: to say that He was raised on the 16th but died on the 13th . . . then you have four days. Whether in full or a portion only the morning is reckoned with the evening, and the daytime with the nighttime.​

If Firstfruits fell on Nisan 16 always, then that would be the case by simply counting backwards (although not a full three calendar days of 3 days and 3 nights, and then Jesus would not have made such a statement). But the Firstfuits day fell on the morrow after the Sabbath during Passover week as did Pentecost 7 weeks later. It had no fixed date on the calendar attached to it. This is why Easter is always on a Sunday, and not just any day of the week like Nisan 16 was --- the church picked the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox to simulate the calendar system in Leviticus 23 (which oftentimes works) without overtly appearing Jewish, still clinging to the Julian/Gregorian calendar system with these formulas to find the dates in March or April.

 

[TOG]

The Passover lamb was selected on the 10th day of Nisan. [Which looks to the Atonement 6 months later on the 10th of Tishrei]
The Passover lamb was killed on the 14th day of Nisan. [symbolizing the Crucifixion of the Lamb of God]
The Passover meal occurred on the 15th day of Nisan. [The Sabbath made for the Son of Man]
The Waving of the Sheaves was observed on the 16th day of the month. [symbolizing Christ's Resurrection]

This Day is the first day of the Omer, which begins the counting of 50 days to Pentecost, Pentecost being the 50th day.​

​

The Feast of First Fruits (the Waving of the Sheaves, as you call it) was on the day after the weekly Sabbath that came during the feast of Unleavened Bread. It wasn't always on the same date.

Therefore, Christ was crucified and died on the 14th (Jn 19:31) and raised on the 16th of Nisan (Jn 20:1) - 2 partial days and one full day.

He also said "three nights". There are only 2 nights in the time period you mention.

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

Christ died on the 14th of the month, the day before the Passover feast. Passover always falls on the 15th day of the month Nisan. That year, Nisan 15 fell on a Sabbath; the 7th day of the week.

What year?

The TOG​

 

[Gregg]

What year?

The TOG​

I am not sure of the year, only the month and day of the month within 'that' year.

 

[TOG]

I am not sure of the year, only the month and day of the month within 'that' year.

Then how can you say "that year" or say anything about that year, if you don't know what year it was? Can you at least give me an approximate year?

The TOG​

 

[Gregg]

Then how can you say "that year" or say anything about that year, if you don't know what year it was? Can you at least give me an approximate year?

The TOG​

Not to beat a dead horse, thank you, but we have our understanding, and if it needs correction then perhaps the LORD will grant us a full understanding of these things.

Why give an approximate year [rhetorical question]? The LORD established a firm record of the days of the month that the Feasts would occur, and the month within that year:

* Day of preparation of the Passover Passover - the day of Christ's Crucifixion for our salvation, the 6th day of week, the 14th of the month of Nisan, the day that God's work of salvation was finished (Jn 19:30).

* The Passover - the Sabbath made for the Son of Man, the 7th day of the week, the 15th of the month Nisan, the day the Son rested with the Father after having overcome sin and the world.

* The Feast of Firstfruits [the waving of the sheaves] - Christ's Resurrection for our justification, the 1st day of the week, the 16th of Nisan, the first day of 50 days leading to Pentecost [the 50th day and the birth of the NT Church].
​

The LORD has not identified the year in the historical record of Scriptures, not for the Passover nor for the Feasts of Tishrei [Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacles]; but we know the day of the month of those feasts. By faith we await the LORD's Second Coming, and the fulfillment in total of those feasts; in the same way that by faith we believe the LORD fulfilled the Passover in a past year.


.

 

[Gregg]

If Firstfruits fell on Nisan 16 always, then that would be the case by simply counting backwards (although not a full three calendar days of 3 days and 3 nights, and then Jesus would not have made such a statement). But the Firstfuits day fell on the morrow after the Sabbath during Passover week as did Pentecost 7 weeks later. It had no fixed date on the calendar attached to it. This is why Easter is always on a Sunday, and not just any day of the week like Nisan 16 was --- the church picked the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox to simulate the calendar system in Leviticus 23 (which oftentimes works) without overtly appearing Jewish, still clinging to the Julian/Gregorian calendar system with these formulas to find the dates in March or April.

Passover always falls on the 15th of Nisan, and the Firstfruits always falls on the 16th of Nisan - those are the days that the LORD commanded those feast to be observed.

They did indeed have a fixed day of the month according to the Hebrew calendar; while some years the day after Passover fell on a Sabbath. And when that occurred it was called a high day, a double-Sabbath. The double-Sabbath occurred in the year of Christ's Crucifixion as it was both Passover and a Sabbath. Review my posts on this thread and you will see that I have identified the verses that have led me to that understanding.

 

[TOG]

Not to beat a dead horse, thank you, but we have our understanding, and if it needs correction then perhaps the LORD will grant us a full understanding of these things.

Why give an approximate year [rhetorical question]? The LORD established a firm record of the days of the month that the Feasts would occur, and the month within that year:

* Day of preparation of the Passover Passover - the day of Christ's Crucifixion for our salvation, the 6th day of week, the 14th of the month of Nisan, the day that God's work of salvation was finished (Jn 19:30).

* The Passover - the Sabbath made for the Son of Man, the 7th day of the week, the 15th of the month Nisan, the day the Son rested with the Father after having overcome sin and the world.

* The Feast of Firstfruits [the waving of the sheaves] - Christ's Resurrection for our justification, the 1st day of the week, the 16th of Nisan, the first day of 50 days leading to Pentecost [the 50th day and the birth of the NT Church].
​

The LORD has not identified the year in the historical record of Scriptures, not for the Passover nor for the Feasts of Tishrei [Trumpets, Atonement, and Tabernacles]; but we know the day of the month of those feasts. By faith we await the LORD's Second Coming, and the fulfillment in total of those feasts; in the same way that by faith we believe the LORD fulfilled the Passover in a past year.


.

Two reasons.

1. You said "that year". You can't make a claim about "that year" if you don't know what year it was.
   
2. You seem to be confusing two events that didn't happen the same year, even though you speak of them as if they did.

What year, at least approximately, are you talking about? If you can't answer that, then you can't make the claims you've made.

The TOG​