You exclude from Mark 16:1 this telling statement:
1Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene....
What day is "the first day of the week" for a Second Temple Jew?
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Did Jesus Rise On Sunday ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
You exclude from Mark 16:1 this telling statement:
1Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene....
What day is "the first day of the week" for a Second Temple Jew?
TOG
Member
The Bible doesn't actually mention a day of the week on which Christ was crucified. It does however tell us a few things that we can use to calculate it if we want to. Whatever our conclusion, it has to fit with the things Scripture says, otherwise it's wrong.
- Christ was crucified on the day the Passover lambs were sacrificed (John 19:14)
- The following day was a Sabbath (Mark 15:41-43)
- The women bought spices to anoint Jesus the day after the Sabbath (Mark 16:1)
- The day after the women bought the spices was also a Sabbath (Luke 23:56)
- The women went to the tomb the day after the weekly Sabbath (Luke 24:1)
- When they arrived, Jesus was already risen (Mark 16:5-6)
- Jesus prophesied that he would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights (Matt. 12:40)
The TOG
tim-from-pa
Member
Very nice (and accurate) summary. As for the Friday - Sunday being 3 days and 3 nights, they will always, always play that "inclusive reckoning" card, because if it was possible, then that's enough evidence for the Friday crucifixionist despite many other proofs you just cited. They don't hear anything else because of being steeped in traditions of men.
Sometimes I wonder if God did not have the scriptures written such that one could twist them to believe what one wants, and at face value it appears so. But when one digs deeper, we see a different picture. Maybe this (in God's eye) separates out those who are serious for the truth vs those who are just adamant because that's what everyone else believes, but they did not research it themselves. (In that regard, I have far more respect for a "cult" that is seeking truth, even if they have some things wrong, than one who goes along with the rest in the name of "orthodoxy".)
Like I already quipped, even a kid knows that Friday to Sunday is not 3 days and 3 nights, and when told that, this time span is the first thing they question. Now why do they question it? Because they know it's not 3 days and 3 nights, so then excuses are made trying to persuade them that it is.
Inclusive reckoning is just the theological buzz word for the day that basically justifies bad mathematics.
Deborah13
Member
The same day it always was and still is, the day after the 7th day.
Something to consider on the "three nights" that Christ spoke of:
The Sign of Jonah
…39But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41"The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.…
I was reading online and came across this article at the Calvary Training website:
"After the trial, but before the High Priest could send Jesus to stand before Pilot, Jesus was held for the night, cast into a pit there in the High Priest’s house.
It’s a site that tourist’s can visit, today.
Pastor Jon told us it was spoken of in Psalm 88.
Yahweh, the God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before you. 2 Let my prayer enter into your presence. Turn your ear to my cry. 3 For my soul is full of troubles.
My life draws near to Sheol. 4 I am counted among those who go down into the pit. I am like a man who has no help, 5 Set apart among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom you remember no more. They are cut off from your hand.
6 You have laid me in the lowest pit, In the darkest depths. 7 Your wrath lies heavily on me. You have afflicted me with all your waves. Selah. 8 You have taken my friends from me.
You have made me an abomination to them. I am confined, and I can’t escape.
9 My eyes are dim from grief. I have called on you daily, Yahweh. I have spread out my hands to you. 10 Do you show wonders to the dead? Do the dead rise up and praise you? Selah.
11 Is your lovingkindness declared in the grave? Or your faithfulness in Destruction?
12 Are your wonders made known in the dark? Or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But to you, Yahweh, I have cried. In the morning, my prayer comes before you. 14 Yahweh, why do you reject my soul? Why do you hide your face from me? 15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up. While I suffer your terrors, I am distracted.
16 Your fierce wrath has gone over me. Your terrors have cut me off. 17 They came around me like water all day long. They completely engulfed me. 18 You have put lover and friend far from me, And my friends into darkness.
Psalm 88 (WEB)
The Sign of Jonah
…39But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41"The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.…
I was reading online and came across this article at the Calvary Training website:
"After the trial, but before the High Priest could send Jesus to stand before Pilot, Jesus was held for the night, cast into a pit there in the High Priest’s house.
It’s a site that tourist’s can visit, today.
Pastor Jon told us it was spoken of in Psalm 88.
Yahweh, the God of my salvation, I have cried day and night before you. 2 Let my prayer enter into your presence. Turn your ear to my cry. 3 For my soul is full of troubles.
My life draws near to Sheol. 4 I am counted among those who go down into the pit. I am like a man who has no help, 5 Set apart among the dead, Like the slain who lie in the grave, Whom you remember no more. They are cut off from your hand.
6 You have laid me in the lowest pit, In the darkest depths. 7 Your wrath lies heavily on me. You have afflicted me with all your waves. Selah. 8 You have taken my friends from me.
You have made me an abomination to them. I am confined, and I can’t escape.
9 My eyes are dim from grief. I have called on you daily, Yahweh. I have spread out my hands to you. 10 Do you show wonders to the dead? Do the dead rise up and praise you? Selah.
11 Is your lovingkindness declared in the grave? Or your faithfulness in Destruction?
12 Are your wonders made known in the dark? Or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
13 But to you, Yahweh, I have cried. In the morning, my prayer comes before you. 14 Yahweh, why do you reject my soul? Why do you hide your face from me? 15 I am afflicted and ready to die from my youth up. While I suffer your terrors, I am distracted.
16 Your fierce wrath has gone over me. Your terrors have cut me off. 17 They came around me like water all day long. They completely engulfed me. 18 You have put lover and friend far from me, And my friends into darkness.
Psalm 88 (WEB)
TOG
Member
But he wasn't in the heart of the earth. Verse 40 is obviously talking about him being dead for three days and nights, not dead for one day, a couple of minuted on one day, a half hour (at most) on another day, two nights and in being tried for one night. Sorry, but that's more mental gymnastics than I can handle.
The TOG
tim-from-pa
Member
That's another thing I noticed lately besides inclusive reckoning. When the truth finally hits that even inclusive reckoning does not work for the time in the tomb, then they stretch out the 3-days and 3- nights to include his trial and some other nonsense. To put it simply: they start with the idea that he was crucified on Friday and then frame the rest of the biblical information to that preconceived idea to make it work. In that case, you can make a case for any number of days.
But the test of a prophet is what he says comes to pass, and it has to be precise and well understood. I know that the 3 days and 3 nights did not include trials and whatnot because the Pharisees and Chief priests were intent by petitioning Pilate on securing the tomb for 3 days. Certainly they understood Jesus' meaning of 3 days and 3 nights by this alone, and not other events to be added in with that time frame.
tim-from-pa
Member
they = Chief Priests and Pharisees
Some of us here are very aware of that, and thus the reason for the Wednesday-Sabbath time frame. With all due respect, with you saying things like "the day of the sun" sounds more Gentile and such calendars than the ones the Jews used.
TOG
Member
He wasn't dead, which is obviously what he was talking about. You would see that if you took the Bible at face value, instead of trying to interpret it in light of a later tradition and twisting things to make the Bible fit the tradition, instead of judging the tradition by what the Bible says.
Whether they used a lunar or solar calendar doesn't change the fact that, according to the Friday-Sunday scenario, Jesus was only dead for a little over 1 day and 2 nights, and not 3 days and 3 nights. Besides, where does the Bible say he was in a pit? An article on the Internet isn't a good source to base doctrine on, nor is it enough to support a doctrine that contradicts the Bible. Do you have a verse?
The TOG
TOG
Member
Let me see if I got this straight... The first half hour or so is the first day, the next 24 hours is the second day and the following night is the third day? So what your saying then is that Jews in the first century didn't know what a day was.
The TOG
Deborah13
Member
And when does that day begin?
The second temple Jew did not change when a day begins.
Scripture was written from a Jewish perspective. Their days were calculated off the moon.
Day 1 - Christ dies at three and they rush to entomb Him prior to dusk because it was against Jewish law to be out after dusk. Why? Because when the first stars appear on Friday night, it is the start of Day 2 the Saturday Sabbath.
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Deborah13
Member
If you mean in your home before a sabbath begins this would include all sabbaths, not just the 7th day sabbath. The first day of unleavened bread is a sabbath, a special, or high sabbath.
So that doesn't prove that He died on the 6th day, Friday.
Every single year it is the same no matter what day the sabbath falls on.
"They" didn't. God established their calculation of days and He commanded that a day began at the rising of the first stars.