Discussing the teachings of Catholicism vs Scripture

[Rollo Tamasi]

In my opinion, this is a happy and merry thread.
Keep up the good work y'all.

 

[JLB]

I just got here and haven't read much that Mungo has posted,,,,
but so far all that he says is correct about the CC.

We may not AGREE with Catholic doctrine, but he is stating it correctly.
WE cannot know more than an informed and intelligent catholic knows.

I often run into this same problem.
Protestants that read something or other and believe they know Catholic doctrine.

Which doc trine are we discussing?

Priests marrying?
All Mungo has said is correct.

He is absolutely incorrect about what the Catholic Church teaches, like many Catholics are.


Ordained priests are forbidden to marry.




https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-cant-a-priest-ever-marry



Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1).



JLB

 

[JLB]

In my opinion, this is a happy and merry thread.
Keep up the good work y'all.

Rollo,

Do you believe we should pray to Mary, or to God?


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

In my opinion, this is a happy and merry thread.
Keep up the good work y'all.

Agreed on your attitude.
It caused one member to leave the forum I think.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo,

Do you believe we should pray to Mary, or to God?


JLB

In my opinion, we should pray to God only.
He is our savior, no one else.
However if it has been ingrained into someone, say a 70 year old person who has been a devoted roman catholic their entire life, and still feel out of habit or whatever that they should still pray to Mary also, then I don't see how God would hold that against them.
In my opinion, only a die hard legalist would condemn someone for that.

Also, in my opinion, I have heard that married Anglican priests have been accepted by the roman church into the priesthood.
In my opinion, the romans' need for priests will allow them to bend the rules a little bit.

 

[GodsGrace]

He is absolutely incorrect about what the Catholic Church teaches, like many Catholics are.


Ordained priests are forbidden to marry.




https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-cant-a-priest-ever-marry



Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1).



JLB

Priests cannot marry.

No one forces a person to become a priest.
They know they cannot marry if they want to be a priest.
They VOLUNTARILY accept a vow of celibacy.

I don't believe this is necessary.
Paul did say it would be better not to marry.
These priests devote their lives to what they believe.

I think it is incorrect because it causes emotional strain and some of them do stray
and then they have their conscience to deal with. Also, this choice should not exist...
we thus have a shortage of priests these days.

The way to handle this is not to tell the other member he is wrong in explaining his
doctrinal beliefs. This goes to emotion instead of intellect.

Loving our neighbor means we don't tell them they're wrong when they are not.
Mungo was right in everything he said. It's frustrating when a person can't get their point across or it isn't accepted even when it's right.

 

[GodsGrace]

In my opinion, we should pray to God only.
He is our savior, no one else.
However if it has been ingrained into someone, say a 70 year old person who has been a devoted roman catholic their entire life, and still feel out of habit or whatever that they should still pray to Mary also, then I don't see how God would hold that against them.
In my opinion, only a die hard legalist would condemn someone for that.

Also, in my opinion, I have heard that married Anglican priests have been accepted by the roman church into the priesthood.
In my opinion, the romans' need for priests will allow them to bend the rules a little bit.

Agreed on all.

 

[GodsGrace]

He is absolutely incorrect about what the Catholic Church teaches, like many Catholics are.


Ordained priests are forbidden to marry.




https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-cant-a-priest-ever-marry



Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1).

JLB
The above is because when one becomes a priest, he remains a priest for life.
You never stop being a priest.
No one that I've ever h eard of was denied a marriage after leaving the priesthood.

As to canons of the CC,,,they are very complicated and one has to speak to a canon authority, which is like an attorney, to understand it. I usually don't discuss canon but only doctrine.

Some catholics (most) do not know their faith....those that do know it well.[/QUOTE]

 

[JLB]

The above is because when one becomes a priest, he remains a priest for life.
You never stop being a priest.

So like I said, the Catholic Church forbids priests to marry.

This is what Mungo is denying.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3




JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

JLB
The above is because when one becomes a priest, he remains a priest for life.
You never stop being a priest.
No one that I've ever h eard of was denied a marriage after leaving the priesthood.

As to canons of the CC,,,they are very complicated and one has to speak to a canon authority, which is like an attorney, to understand it. I usually don't discuss canon but only doctrine.

Some catholics (most) do not know their faith....those that do know it well.

[/QUOTE]
Is it biblical to remain a priest forever?

 

[GodsGrace]

So like I said, the Catholic Church forbids priests to marry.

This is what Mungo is denying.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3




JLB

It's in how the understanding is.

If I FORBID you to enter a store,,,I am removing from you the ability to DECIDE and chooses whether or not you wish to enter that store.

Instead, if I tell you...JLB,,,IF you ENTER that store, you can never come out again...then I am giving you the CHOICE to enter or not.

I am not forbidding you either to enter it
or not enter it.

Since a priest makes his own free will decision to become a priest,,,,
he is not being FORBIDDEN to marry...
He freely decides to vow NOT TO MARRY.

I know this is a nuance that is not easy to understand,,,but I know you're intelligent enough to understand it once you give it some thought.

YOU are correct in stating that once a man has decided to be a priest...,
he can no longer get married.

 

[GodsGrace]

Is it biblical to remain a priest forever?
[/QUOTE]
Sure.
It's like baptism.
Once a person is baptized, it cannot be removed.

A priest once told me that some go to him to be UNBAPTIZED because they become atheists at some point in their lives. He told them this is impossible.

Although, yes, the Holy Spirit becomes ineffectual in that person's life.

A priest will always be a priest...
but it will become ineffectual to him.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is it biblical to remain a priest forever?

Sure.
It's like baptism.
Once a person is baptized, it cannot be removed.

A priest once told me that some go to him to be UNBAPTIZED because they become atheists at some point in their lives. He told them this is impossible.

Although, yes, the Holy Spirit becomes ineffectual in that person's life.

A priest will always be a priest...
but it will become ineffectual to him.
[/QUOTE]
So, like 1 Peter 2:9; " But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. "
Does this mean we are priests forever?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Revelation 1:6; " and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen. "

Revelation 5:10; " You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

 

[JLB]

It's in how the understanding is.

If I FORBID you to enter a store,,,I am removing from you the ability to DECIDE and chooses whether or not you wish to enter that store.

Instead, if I tell you...JLB,,,IF you ENTER that store, you can never come out again...then I am giving you the CHOICE to enter or not.

I am not forbidding you either to enter it
or not enter it.

Since a priest makes his own free will decision to become a priest,,,,
he is not being FORBIDDEN to marry...
He freely decides to vow NOT TO MARRY.

I know this is a nuance that is not easy to understand,,,but I know you're intelligent enough to understand it once you give it some thought.

YOU are correct in stating that once a man has decided to be a priest...,
he can no longer get married.

Wondering.

The Catholic Church forbids their priests to marry.

Its very simple.


If you are a Catholic Priest you are forbidden to marry, not by God, but by the Catholic Church.


Thats not biblical.

 

[GodsGrace]

wondering said:


Sure.
It's like baptism.
Once a person is baptized, it cannot be removed.

A priest once told me that some go to him to be UNBAPTIZED because they become atheists at some point in their lives. He told them this is impossible.

Although, yes, the Holy Spirit becomes ineffectual in that person's life.

A priest will always be a priest...
but it will become ineffectual to him.

Rollo said:

So, like 1 Peter 2:9; " But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. "
Does this mean we are priests forever?

Tricky question!
I think you got me into a corner.
Be back when the paint dries.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

wondering said:


Sure.
It's like baptism.
Once a person is baptized, it cannot be removed.

A priest once told me that some go to him to be UNBAPTIZED because they become atheists at some point in their lives. He told them this is impossible.

Although, yes, the Holy Spirit becomes ineffectual in that person's life.

A priest will always be a priest...
but it will become ineffectual to him.

Rollo said:

Tricky question!
I think you got me into a corner.
Be back when the paint dries.

In my opinion, you need to answer this as soon as possible...

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering.

The Catholic Church forbids their priests to marry.

Its very simple.


If you are a Catholic Priest you are forbidden to marry, not by God, but by the Catholic Church.


Thats not biblical.

OK.

And it didn't even happen till about the year 1,100AD.
And I agree that it's not biblical.

I think the following is from Wikepedia (just lost the site...)

The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy in the twelfth century at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry. In 1563, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy.

 

[GodsGrace]

In my opinion, you need to answer this as soon as possible...

Yes,,,this will be heading in the direction of OSAS.
So if we're a holy priesthood,,,are we one forever?

It's speaking about a NATION...not individuals.

Just like Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about
corporate salvation and not individual salvation.

How's that?

 

[JLB]

wondering said:


Sure.
It's like baptism.
Once a person is baptized, it cannot be removed.

A priest once told me that some go to him to be UNBAPTIZED because they become atheists at some point in their lives. He told them this is impossible.

Although, yes, the Holy Spirit becomes ineffectual in that person's life.

A priest will always be a priest...
but it will become ineffectual to him.

Rollo said:

Tricky question!
I think you got me into a corner.
Be back when the paint dries.

Do you understand that those who are Christ’s are priests?

You as a Christian are a priest.


Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
James 5:16


This is the activity of a priest to hear people’s sins as they confess so their sins are forgiven.



JLB