Discussing the teachings of Catholicism vs Scripture

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes,,,this will be heading in the direction of OSAS.
So if we're a holy priesthood,,,are we one forever?

It's speaking about a NATION...not individuals.

Just like Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11 is speaking about
corporate salvation and not individual salvation.

How's that?

In my opinion, you have it wrong.
1. individual salvation, none of this corporate junk.
2. A nation of saved or unsaved or mixed priests. Scriptures please to back up your answer.
3. If you think it's by your own effort that you are saved, then you are a non-OSAS'er.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you understand that those who are Christ’s are priests?


You as a Christian are a priest.

Yes,,,I do understand this.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Do you understand that those who are Christ’s are priests?


You as a Christian are a priest.

wondering is a priest?
Shall we call her father?

 

[JLB]

wondering is a priest?
Shall we call her father?

Please try to be respectful.

Where is that ban button? I know it’s around here somewhere.

 

[JLB]

In my opinion, you have it wrong.
1. individual salvation, none of this corporate junk.
2. A nation of saved or unsaved or mixed priests. Scriptures please to back up your answer.
3. If you think it's by your own effort that you are saved, then you are a non-OSAS'er.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Now who is trying to stir things up?

 

[GodsGrace]

In my opinion, you have it wrong.
1. individual salvation, none of this corporate junk.
2. A nation of saved or unsaved or mixed priests. Scriptures please to back up your answer.
3. If you think it's by your own effort that you are saved, then you are a non-OSAS'er.

1. Corporate salvation is not my opinion. It's regarding Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11.

I'll try to find some links...it's complicated.

Romans 9-11: A New View of the Doctrine of Election

kgsvr.net

All Israel will be saved – Understanding Romans 9-11

www.messianicgoodnews.org

Corporate election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. A nation of priests: (I thought YOU posted the scripture)

1 Peter 2:9
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

3. We are not saved by our works, as Ephesians 2:8 states.
However, after we come to believe in Jesus and are saved,,,,we are expected to obey God and this does require some of our own works.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Titus 2:7
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

and much more...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

1. Corporate salvation is not my opinion. It's regarding Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11.

I'll try to find some links...it's complicated.

Romans 9-11: A New View of the Doctrine of Election

kgsvr.net

All Israel will be saved – Understanding Romans 9-11

www.messianicgoodnews.org

Corporate election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. A nation of priests: (I thought YOU posted the scripture)

1 Peter 2:9
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

3. We are not saved by our works, as Ephesians 2:8 states.
However, after we come to believe in Jesus and are saved,,,,we are expected to obey God and this does require some of our own works.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Titus 2:7
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

and much more...

Matthew 7:21; What is the will of the Father?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

1. Corporate salvation is not my opinion. It's regarding Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11.

I'll try to find some links...it's complicated.

Romans 9-11: A New View of the Doctrine of Election

kgsvr.net

All Israel will be saved – Understanding Romans 9-11

www.messianicgoodnews.org

Corporate election - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. A nation of priests: (I thought YOU posted the scripture)

1 Peter 2:9
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

3. We are not saved by our works, as Ephesians 2:8 states.
However, after we come to believe in Jesus and are saved,,,,we are expected to obey God and this does require some of our own works.

James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Matthew 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Titus 2:7
Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us.

and much more...

Romans 9:11 is this what you are trying to say?

 

[GodsGrace]

Matthew 7:21; What is the will of the Father?

Some will say that the will of the Father is that we believe in His Son...
As in John 6:32

But then we'd have to get into what the word BELIEVE means....
I have to leave for a while...
but what DOES IT MEAN?

Does belief have anything to do with obedience?

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 9:11 is this what you are trying to say?

No, not Romans 9:11

I'm talking about Romans chapters 9, 10 and 11, inclusively.

Paul is talking about the Jewish nation and how the Jews do not believe that
Jesus is the Messiah. Does this mean that God has failed? Was His plan wrong?
It's about national salvation, corporate salvation and NOT individual salvation (although it IS mentioned).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Romans 9:11 is this what you are trying to say?

Romans 10:12; "for there is no difference between Jew and Gentile..."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Some will say that the will of the Father is that we believe in His Son...
As in John 6:32

But then we'd have to get into what the word BELIEVE means....
I have to leave for a while...
but what DOES IT MEAN?

Does belief have anything to do with obedience?

Yes, to believe in his son..
Those who put rules to this are non-OSAS'ers

 

[JLB]

Yes, to believe in his son..
Those who put rules to this are non-OSAS'ers

These are His words.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

These are His words.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

See how you put obey in there instead of believe
I never do things like that
I guess I don't have to because I know I'm right

 

[JLB]

See how you put obey in there instead of believe
I never do things like that
I guess I don't have to because I know I'm right

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NASB


Believe means obey.


If you don’t believe the Lord then you won’t obey Him.


Unbelief is Disobedience


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:8 KJV


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9 NKJV



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

wondering

maryourhelp.org / 95 catechism questions & answers

What the catechism teaches is not from the doctrine of Christ, but from the doctrine of the Catholic Church thinking they are the one and only true Church.

I read the requirements for a Catholic marrying a non Catholic and it is not scriptural.

The Roman Rite is the main liturgical rite of the Latin or Western Church, the largest of the sui iuris particular Churches that make up the Catholic Church. It developed in the Latin language in the city of Rome and while distinct Latin liturgical rites such as the Ambrosian Riteremain, the Roman Rite has over time been adopted almost everywhere in the Western Church.

The Sui iuris is a Latin phrase that literally means one's own rite. It is used in both civil law and canon law by the Catholic Church as in the Catholic Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches to denote the autonomous churches in Catholic communion.

None of these things are validated of God, but only validated by the Pope and the Jesuits that are above the Pope as they set the laws, rites and rituals of the Catholic Church, but none found in the doctrines of Christ. Look above the doors or the signs in front of some of the Catholic Church's and it reads "Roman Catholic Church".

 

[PeterJens]

See how you put obey in there instead of believe
I never do things like that
I guess I don't have to because I know I'm right

I am interested in the proposition above. When Jesus says we are to obey Him, it is He who is saying obey.
To then suggest we the listeners are putting in the word obey instead of believe is the reverse of what is happening in the mind of this commentator. They are literally replacing the word obey with believe. Often the justification for this behaviour is the verse Jesus says the work of God is to believe in His Son. Which is true, except Jesus always links belief with obedience and following. But then those who wish to disassociate themselves with obedience and the struggle with desire verses love, have already given up on the power of Jesus.

God bless you

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NASB


Believe means obey.


If you don’t believe the Lord then you won’t obey Him.


Unbelief is Disobedience


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:8 KJV


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9 NKJV



JLB

Believe is something that comes from our hearts
Obey is to comply to commands, a robot can do that
we believe and get saved
then we obey

We can't say we obey and get saved
then we believe

No, they do not mean the same though they go well together for general purposes

 

[JLB]

Believe is something that comes from our hearts
Obey is to comply to commands, a robot can do that
we believe and get saved
then we obey

We can't say we obey and get saved
then we believe

No, they do not mean the same though they go well together for general purposes

Obeying the Gospel Is how a person is saved.

Confessing with our mouth Jesus as Lord is how we obey the Gospel.

If we believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then we will repent, turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as our Lord. Our Lord who we commit to obey.

Biblical believing, the believing that Jesus accepts, mean to trust and commit to obey.

Unbelief and Disobedience means exactly the same thing to Jesus Christ, not matter how hard you try to deny it.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

• For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB