Discussing the teachings of Catholicism vs Scripture

[Mungo]

It's very well documented. Go do a google search and look it up.

You made the claims.
You provide the evidence.

That's how a proper discussion works

 

[Mungo]

Actually I was exposing what most Christians know to be true.

The teachings of Catholicism are unbiblical.

Very simple.


If you take that as “Catholic Bashing” then that’s on you.



JLB

No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts Scripture (properly interpreted).

 

[Mungo]

No, I am not a Mormon. I'm not even a Protestant. I'm just a blood bought child of the most High God of all creation. I belong to no organized religions. You can believe what I gave as being untrue until you take the time to search it for yourself. Where is your evidence that they invented this false title of Vicarius Filii Dei so that it adds up to 666.

"It's very well documented. Go do a google search and look it up".

 

[Mungo]

Do you folks have Apostles?

We have successors to the Apostles

 

[Mungo]

Even in England where you are from has Roman Catholic Church's. It's hard to believe you never heard of them. There are two in London being the St James Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church of the English Martyrs. They are no different than any Catholic Church in what I already explained in post #71.

I'm not referring to individual congregations.
I'm referring to the name of the whole Church led by Pope Francis.

From Wikipedia
The use of "Catholic Church" is officially used by the Holy See. It is applied in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1990), the Code of Canon Law (1983), in the documents of the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965), the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Council of Trent (1545–1563), and numerous other official documents. "Catholic Church" and "Catholic(s)" is also broadly reflected in most English-language academia and media.

 

[Mungo]

Even in England where you are from has Roman Catholic Church's. It's hard to believe you never heard of them. There are two in London being the St James Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church of the English Martyrs. They are no different than any Catholic Church in what I already explained in post #71.

I'm not referring to individual congregations.
I'm referring to the name of the whole Church led by Pope Francis.

As you quoted from Wikipedia you should have read a bit further.

JLB There are so many documented things including pics I could expose about the Roman Catholic Church/Catholic Church and the Vatican. Some found hidden away in the Vatican library that only a few select are allowed to enter. Actually it has to do more with the Jesuit Order not being a religious order, but in its own right a self governed military order as was the old Babylonian Roman Empire.

This is why the doctrines of the Catholic Church can not be found in scripture as even Tradidi and Mungo seem to refuse to share any Catholic doctrine after we have asked a few times for them to produce.

My ex-nephew from my first marriage was Catholic and when he finished catechism classes back in mid 1970's and was confirmed into the Catholic church as a member I bought him a KJV Bible, but he was not allowed to accept it for they were forbidden to read one. What does that say about the doctrines of the Catholic church vs scriptures.

This is a tissue of lies and a disgraceful post for a Staff member.

 

[Mungo]

JLB, for_his_glory
I'm totally disgusted with the posting on this forum by you two.
You have a totally false understanding of Catholicism and seem to have closed minds to the truth.

It bears no resemblance to the vision in the Community Message.
You should try reading it and then read your posts in this thread.

It seems that all you want here is a Protestant echo chanber. Well so be it.

I'm going away for over two weeks. My wife and I are childminding our grandchildren for the last two weeks of school holidays. I was going to take a lasp top with me and try to post when I could but I that that would be pointless.

I shall not bother to return here.

I shall make one more post in reply to JLB on married priests just for your information.

 

[Mungo]

So an ordained Catholic priest can become married?



JLB

The Catholic Church does not forbid people to marry (except for two people of the same sex and a person who is already married and I think you'll accept that as biblical).

This charge is usually about priestly celibacy.

Two points
1. The Catholic Church does have married priests in the Eastern rites, similar to Orthodox.

2. Latin rite priests are unmarried. However it is their choice to give up the option of marriage when they become priests “because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt 19:12)
"An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord." (1Cor 7:32)

Similarly if a man marries he gives up the option of being a priest (at least unless his wife dies)

“But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife and he is divided.” (1Cor 7:33-34)

Paul says “Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am [unmarried], but each has a particular gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

Marriage and Ordination are sacraments. Whichever a person chooses he or she will be given the graces (gifts) to live the life they have chosen.

It’s a choice. No-one forces anyone to marry or become a priest.

No-one forbids anyone to marry, but some choices rule out others.

No-one must take a vow of celibacy.

A man or woman has a choice to follow a particular calling from God. If a man chooses to become a priest in the Latin Rite then he chooses to forgo the option of marrying unless he leaves the priesthood (as some have done). He is not forced to become a priest and therefore is not forced to take a vow of celibacy. It is his choice. But as I said some choices rule out others.

If a man or a woman chooses to follow a celibate life as a priest, monk or nun then the Church expects them to faithfully honour that choice and the promises that go with it.

If a man or a woman chooses to marry then the Church expects them to faithfully honour that choice and the promises that go with it.

 

[JLB]

No Catholic doctrine (properly understood) contradicts Scripture (properly interpreted).

I and millions of others disagree.

Why does the Roman Catholic Church have a special Catechism to teach their people the doctrine of the Catholic Church rather than just teaching from the Bible?


JLB

 

[JLB]

The Catholic Church does not forbid people to marry (except for two people of the same sex and a person who is already married and I think you'll accept that as biblical).

Not true.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-cant-a-priest-ever-marry



Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1).

 

[JLB]

JLB, for_his_glory
I'm totally disgusted with the posting on this forum by you two.
You have a totally false understanding of Catholicism and seem to have closed minds to the truth.

It bears no resemblance to the vision in the Community Message.
You should try reading it and then read your posts in this thread.

It seems that all you want here is a Protestant echo chanber. Well so be it.

I'm going away for over two weeks. My wife and I are childminding our grandchildren for the last two weeks of school holidays. I was going to take a lasp top with me and try to post when I could but I that that would be pointless.

I shall not bother to return here.

I shall make one more post in reply to JLB on married priests just for your information.

Maybe you should take the time to actually find out what the Catholic Church Teaches before you you try to explain their beliefs, because what the Catholic Church teaches is not biblical.


Here is the stance of the Catholic Church on marriage —


Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1).


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

You made the claims.
You provide the evidence.

That's how a proper discussion works

I'm not going to do your homework for you. I already gave you that of what I found in my researching and you believe me not so go search it for yourself. That is not being rude, but encouraging you to go study this so we can discuss it further.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not referring to individual congregations.
I'm referring to the name of the whole Church led by Pope Francis.

From Wikipedia
The use of "Catholic Church" is officially used by the Holy See. It is applied in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1990), the Code of Canon Law (1983), in the documents of the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965), the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Council of Trent (1545–1563), and numerous other official documents. "Catholic Church" and "Catholic(s)" is also broadly reflected in most English-language academia and media.

Pope Francis does not lead the Catholic Church. The Holy See is set above the Pope in all authority as the governing power of the Vatican and the Pope through the leadership of the Jesuit Superior General Arturo Marcelino Sosa Abascal, He views a profound skepticism about Holy Scripture saying that although a variety of interpretations are allowed, they must fit with the established doctrine of the Catholic Church and do not contradict the deposit of faith. He has also been found guilty of liquefying the Gospel by suggesting that the Gospel should be adapted according to the times on the basis that Jesus's words were not recorded verbatim or on tape.

George Neumayr of the conservative American Spectator described Sosa as a Marxist, a Venezuelan communist and modernist about a 1989 letter welcoming Fidel Castro to Venezuela who repressed the Catholic Church in Cuba during his time in power.
(Source, The English Priest and consulting editor of The Catholic Herald Alexander Lucie-Smith. George Neumayr of the conservative American Spectator.)

The Jesuit Priesthood uses their own written official documents that dictates the Catechism (Doctrine) of the Catholic Church as I have already shown how the Catechism comes against the word of God in post #57.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not referring to individual congregations.
I'm referring to the name of the whole Church led by Pope Francis.

As you quoted from Wikipedia you should have read a bit further.



This is a tissue of lies and a disgraceful post for a Staff member.

Then please show us the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

 

[for_his_glory]

JLB, for_his_glory
I'm totally disgusted with the posting on this forum by you two.
You have a totally false understanding of Catholicism and seem to have closed minds to the truth.

It bears no resemblance to the vision in the Community Message.
You should try reading it and then read your posts in this thread.

It seems that all you want here is a Protestant echo chanber. Well so be it.

I'm going away for over two weeks. My wife and I are childminding our grandchildren for the last two weeks of school holidays. I was going to take a lasp top with me and try to post when I could but I that that would be pointless.

I shall not bother to return here.

I shall make one more post in reply to JLB on married priests just for your information.

I'm sorry you feel this way as JLB and I are not Protestants, but as I said Spiritually born again blood bought children of God. We have been sharing with you as patiently and politely as we can. We have not disrespected you personally in any way as you are allowed your views, but yet we have asked you to use scripture and repeatedly asked you to share the doctrines of the Catholic church which you refuse to give us so we can discuss them. It is you who is not opened to discuss the scriptures or the history of the true Church of Christ with Him being the head of the body of Christ (Church).

I only ask, why is that?

 

[for_his_glory]

The Catholic Church does not forbid people to marry

I have to disagree with this. They do forbid a Catholic to marry outside of the Catholic Church. When my mother married my father back in 1950 she had to renounce her Catholic faith in order to marry as the Priest refused to validate the marriage since my father was not a Catholic.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have to disagree with this. They do forbid a Catholic to marry outside of the Catholic Church. When my mother married my father back in 1950 she had to renounce her Catholic faith in order to marry as the Priest refused to validate the marriage since my father was not a Catholic.

Things have changed.
No one needs to renounce their catholic faith.
In fact, it's the opposite.

What Are the Requirements for Marrying a Non-Catholic Christian?

In order to marry a non-catholic Christian, a faithful Catholic must meet several requirements above those for unmixed marriages. Read about them here.

www.catholic.com

and, if you're really interested:

 

[GodsGrace]

Even in England where you are from has Roman Catholic Church's. It's hard to believe you never heard of them. There are two in London being the St James Roman Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church of the English Martyrs. They are no different than any Catholic Church in what I already explained in post #71.

"Roman" is a RITE, and is not the name of the Catholic Church.
It's just Catholic Church of the Roman rite.

It's a common error and most catholics pay no attention to it anymore.

 

[GodsGrace]

Then please show us the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

What do you mean by this?
I would be happy to show you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe you should take the time to actually find out what the Catholic Church Teaches before you you try to explain their beliefs, because what the Catholic Church teaches is not biblical.


Here is the stance of the Catholic Church on marriage —


Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1).


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
1 Timothy 4:1-3




JLB

I just got here and haven't read much that Mungo has posted,,,,
but so far all that he says is correct about the CC.

We may not AGREE with Catholic doctrine, but he is stating it correctly.
WE cannot know more than an informed and intelligent catholic knows.

I often run into this same problem.
Protestants that read something or other and believe they know Catholic doctrine.

Which doc trine are we discussing?

Priests marrying?
All Mungo has said is correct.