Divisions

[dwb001]

My point was, if we're listening to Jesus, God is putting his words in our mouths.

And that would be Holy Scripture?
So I can say "God told me that journeyman can never go into a Walmart again."
And as that really does not contradict any Scripture I can find... it is now holy scripture and binding?
Sounds a bit far fetched to me... but if you believe it... so be it.

 

[Free]

I quoted the relevant part.

No, you took what I said out of context as a prooftext for a counterargument that completely missed the point I made.

"Specific set of holy writings" is a third translation of the word... not even the top two. So why ignore the top two interpretations of the word in favour of a third level understanding?

I did not say it is a translation. I am clearly saying it is the object to which we are referring. You say your basis is Strong's for the translation "writings," but here is what Strong's actually says:

"a passage of Scripture; (pl.) the collective whole of the Scriptures; holy, authoritative collection of writings:- scripture [31], scriptures [20]"

That rather supports what I've been saying--that the word graphe is used in the Bible to refer to a specific set of holy writings--those belonging to Judaism and Christianity--and are known as Scripture or the Scriptures.

That is like saying the Hadith are the same as the Quran. (Islamic reference)

How so?

In post #34 you said "I never said words don’t matter." That was where you misrepresented what I was saying.... Context.

Yes, because you said: "And yet that is what you said... words don't matter." There was no misrepresentation on my part, but there was on yours, since that is not what I had said, as the context shows.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 2Tim.4:3

I think Pauls' words are true concerning the days we're living in. I think they apply not only to the world, but to the church. When Paul said,

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1Cor.1:10,

I think his purpose was to combat heresy. It's sad how even on Christian websites, there is so much division. By this fact alone, heresy has to be rampant among us.

Any comments welcome.

How can this be solved outside of the theology police? Cults, btw, have no division. One man or woman tells all what to think. Is this preferable?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

My point was, if we're listening to Jesus, God is putting his words in our mouths.

That is correct but who is listening to God? Do people know how to tell the difference? Do people even know the difference between God speaking to them and their own thoughts? There are some here who ask God to speak to them and then think anything that comes to mind IS God. They think if they “command” God to speak to them, He obeys.

 

[journeyman]

And that would be Holy Scripture?
So I can say "God told me that journeyman can never go into a Walmart again."
And as that really does not contradict any Scripture I can find... it is now holy scripture and binding?
Sounds a bit far fetched to me... but if you believe it... so be it.

I thought you understood we were discussing our relationship with God.
I'm simply saying that if someone truly loves Jesus, he will understand the Bible in a way where nothing contradicts.
A scholar may spend his life studying the scriptures, yet know little about them. Following Isa.58 is where the knowledge of God comes from.

 

[journeyman]

How can this be solved outside of the theology police? Cults, btw, have no division. One man or woman tells all what to think. Is this preferable?

There's no need for "theology police" or cult tactics where the truth of the gospel shines. And the cult I was in years ago had many divisions, yet for fear of reprisal, nobody spoke to the "leadership."
I find it much easier to understand the scriptures when I view them through the eyes of a mom or dad who love their children.

 

[journeyman]

That is correct but who is listening to God? Do people know how to tell the difference? Do people even know the difference between God speaking to them and their own thoughts? There are some here who ask God to speak to them and then think anything that comes to mind IS God. They think if they “command” God to speak to them, He obeys.

Well, we certainly don't boss God around lol. But I believe we know our Savior and those born of him, by how our lives glorify him.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

There's no need for "theology police" or cult tactics where the truth of the gospel shines. And the cult I was in years ago had many divisions, yet for fear of reprisal, nobody spoke to the "leadership."
I find it much easier to understand the scriptures when I view them through the eyes of a mom or dad who love their children.

Unity is not achieved through all thinking the same thing. It is achieved by living out his teaching including loving others as you love yourself and receiving a love of the truth to curb the untruth in our minds. The truth of the gospel as generally understood is only how to avoid hell. In some theologies you needn’t even bother to avoid it since you are personally chosen for heaven no matter what.

Cults have an outward appearing unity because they aren’t allowed to think differently than the leader. Fear, not love, is the glue.

On chat sites, generally fear of getting thoughts (posts) deleted or getting kicked off is the only glue offered. So anyone looking for unity under that kind of authority can only find a superficial “I’d better or else” experience. This does not generate love between members AT ALL.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Well, we certainly don't boss God around lol.

You would be surprised to read how many think they are doing that. They speak words such that God must teach them personally, not through people which is humbling, and anything they think after saying those words are, of course, Him obeying. They’ll even quote verses that encourage them in their demands not realizing that God doesn’t have to answer when it suits them. They say “God teach me” and whatever they think after that is God teaching them according to them.

But I believe we know our Savior and those born of him, by how our lives glorify him.

That is a good point and I agree although since the apostles lives certainly glorified Him, they were hated and murdered. I wonder if the measure of glorifying Him is what Heaven thinks of a man, not what people here think.

 

[DiscipleDave]

The English is being generous in it's use of the word Scripture when the original would be better rendered as writings.

Are you saying the Word of God is wrong then, that it should have NOT said Scriptures, but said writings?

Woe to those who believe the Word of God is wrong, or should have been said some other way. Did God in Heaven allow the word Scriptures to be used as it is used? Could not have God made sure it was called writings instead of Scriptures? Why didn't He then.

This generation would do well to know and understand that God could change a verse in every single Bible in the World without our even knowing it was changed. He is God. Are you saying He could NOT do this thing? What kind of God would allow His Word to be incorrect? Would God not make sure that His Word read EXACTLY as He wanted it to be read? If then in His Word it says Scriptures, that is the Word He chose.
The Word of God is TRUTH, those who think it should be this or that, are being led astray.

 

[DiscipleDave]

God says " All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Believe that.

Nicolaitan Christians says "Only the Pentateuch is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

All Scriptures, means ALL SCRIPTURES. What are Scriptures then? EVERYTHING God reveals in the Word of God.

 

[DiscipleDave]

You misrepresented me and what I said. I translated what you said... then quoted you for reference. You took my translation as a quote. Was that a deliberate deception on your part or just a lazy reading of the post?

Wow, and you accused me of being false because of my method of teaching. lol.

 

[DiscipleDave]

Unity is not achieved through all thinking the same thing.

1Co_1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Cults have an outward appearing unity because they aren’t allowed to think differently than the leader.

We are not to think differently than our Leader either, that is Jesus Christ.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The English is being generous in it's use of the word Scripture when the original would be better rendered as writings.

What is the difference? A script is dialogue that is written down. What is the difference between writings or scripture?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Wow, and you accused me of being false because of my method of teaching. lol.

Why don't you consider the input instead of defending?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

1Co_1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.



We are not to think differently than our Leader either, that is Jesus Christ.

Is that the case when we look a any church anywhere? How are we to learn from one another is no one is supposed to think differently than the others?

The goal is not all agree on everything they think and no one can learn from anyone else. The goal is that we are set on BEING in character like Christ in how we treat others. That is the same judgement we render upon ourselves is that which we in worse case, render on others. Being more merciful to others is better. Limiting being joined together in the same mind to "thinking as Jesus does" brings up the question as to who is to tell the others what to think so that they all think the same and are thinking as Jesus does? Who is the master thinker in this?

 

[eddif]

Interesting thread.
Philippians 2:5 kjv
5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Thought I would never get to a period.

Dealing with the mind is different than dealing with the flesh.
I will put my law in hearts and minds.

The concepts of the law transcend contexts.

The seed are in agriculture, but the word of God is spiritual.
Being written in stone is one context.
Being in a heart of flesh is another context
What is spoken by God can be written
What is spoken by thunders can also be sealed and not written .
Creation reveals Romans 1:20
Parables hide truth
Prophecy from God will come true
God looked on heart
Man tends to look at outer man
Revelation 3:20 is personal
Tongues can be personal or corporate
etc.

God has spoken in various ways and through his Son.

Our mind of Christ can comprehend all this .

We are a diverse body. A lung does not think like a kidney. All the body parts have meaning. Respiration is not digestion. Circulation is not vision.

Matthew chapters 5,6, 7 look at abstract inner values. Those inner values can manifest in the external.

The mind of Christ is not overloaded.

My sunshades are fogging over. LOL

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[journeyman]

Unity is not achieved through all thinking the same thing. It is achieved by living out his teaching including loving others as you love yourself and receiving a love of the truth to curb the untruth in our minds. The truth of the gospel as generally understood is only how to avoid hell. In some theologies you needn’t even bother to avoid it since you are personally chosen for heaven no matter what.

Cults have an outward appearing unity because they aren’t allowed to think differently than the leader. Fear, not love, is the glue.

On chat sites, generally fear of getting thoughts (posts) deleted or getting kicked off is the only glue offered. So anyone looking for unity under that kind of authority can only find a superficial “I’d better or else” experience. This does not generate love between members AT ALL.

Well, that's why I used the example of a loving parent. Parents who truly love their children do correct them and fear may be used, but for the purpose of truly caring about them.
I'm convinced that the unrepentant are only slain by Savior because they will be unprepared to meet him. He's just going to show up.

 

[journeyman]

You would be surprised to read how many think they are doing that. They speak words such that God must teach them personally, not through people which is humbling, and anything they think after saying those words are, of course, Him obeying. They’ll even quote verses that encourage them in their demands not realizing that God doesn’t have to answer when it suits them. They say “God teach me” and whatever they think after that is God teaching them according to them.

That is a good point and I agree although since the apostles lives certainly glorified Him, they were hated and murdered. I wonder if the measure of glorifying Him is what Heaven thinks of a man, not what people here think.

Well, this world views power in terms of physical strength. Christ defeated death by turning the other cheek.
Talk about a strongman competition.

 

[dwb001]

Wow, and you accused me of being false because of my method of teaching. lol.

Well, good thing I am not a teacher.