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Do we know the original Scriptures ARE the original Scriptures

Lamplady, you seem somehow convinced that there are other lost scriptures yet to be discovered. I'd like to know why you think so.

I agree with many others that the Scripture we have is complete. We are, after all, talking about the holy and perfect God Almighty. He has watched over His word carefully as it was handed down through the centuries, and of the thousands of copies or fragments of copies of the Greek and Hebrew texts that are in existence, it's beyond amazing that they all read so closely with each of the others, with very little variance.
 
Totally unimportant.

"I mean literally other Scriptures out there, (that's part of the Bible), that we DON'T know about."

OF course the "Bible" has been "closed" centuries ago. So NO nothing additional is going to be "Part of the Bible".

What you're REALLY asking is whether there are writings "out there" that are the "WORD OF GOD" but which weren't incorporated into the Bible. Probably so, but unimportant - The AUTHOR and giver of God's Word is present WITH us right NOW in 2011, just like he was in 55 A.D., or 1000 B.C. He's the Holy Spirit - and he's IN you - if you're a Christian.

If you want WISDOM - just ask - singlemindedly - and He'll POUR IT OUT on you.
 
Tailgunner said:
Lamplady, you seem somehow convinced that there are other lost scriptures yet to be discovered. I'd like to know why you think so.

I agree with many others that the Scripture we have is complete. We are, after all, talking about the holy and perfect God Almighty. He has watched over His word carefully as it was handed down through the centuries, and of the thousands of copies or fragments of copies of the Greek and Hebrew texts that are in existence, it's beyond amazing that they all read so closely with each of the others, with very little variance.
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Tailgunner said:
Lamplady, you seem somehow convinced that there are other lost scriptures yet to be discovered. I'd like to know why you think so.

I agree with many others that the Scripture we have is complete. We are, after all, talking about the holy and perfect God Almighty. He has watched over His word carefully as it was handed down through the centuries, and of the thousands of copies or fragments of copies of the Greek and Hebrew texts that are in existence, it's beyond amazing that they all read so closely with each of the others, with very little variance.
Click to expand...

The Word of God is already out we know that. The Word exisited BEFORE the written word. And BELIEVERS beleived WITHOUT the written Word.

I'm not denying the bible we have now is not from God. Possibly the bible we have now is also enough, (for now). But it is also feasible the bible has parts missing or is incomplete - a lot of it is already noted as 'unclear'.

I happen to believe there are more to the bible then what's discovered so far.

How do we know it isn't the holy spirit who's telling me this.

God's ways are not our ways.
 
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The Holy Spirit leading me in a particular direction, and the Spirit-inspired Word of God which we have in the Scriptures, are not the same when it comes to authority.

In His gracious leading, the Holy Spirit never acts contrary to the revealed Word of God.
 
Lamplady, I guess I just take it on faith that the Lord would not have part of His Message to us undiscovered, unknown and unrevealed. Now, I suppose I could make way for something to be revealed by Him that somehow "updates" us on His Plan, although I can't imagine what that would look like. But I don't believe it's reasonable to believe some things are not discovered. Why would He not have used any means to reveal something important to us?

This is especially so with regard to Old Testament writings for the reason I gave in post #8:

"My understanding is this. The scripture of the Old Testament was handed down orally from the beginning. The Word was memorized to perfection and handed down from generation to generation. When it was put down in print, there was no dispute as to what would be included down to every last word. Memorization was critical, and they placed the Word on their hearts. We don't have the original manuscripts, but we do have the Word handed down that all of Israel was in complete agreement with as it got passed on to B.C. times. There was no one contradicting another, because scripture was so well memorized. For that reason, I conclude without a doubt that scripture is complete and true to the original."
 
farouk said:
The Holy Spirit leading me in a particular direction, and the Spirit-inspired Word of God which we have in the Scriptures, are not the same when it comes to authority.

In His gracious leading, the Holy Spirit never acts contrary to the revealed Word of God.
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If there are extra literature it wouldn't be contrary to what's already written or to God ...

Mike said:
Lamplady, I guess I just take it on faith that the Lord would not have part of His Message to us undiscovered, unknown and unrevealed. Now, I suppose I could make way for something to be revealed by Him that somehow "updates" us on His Plan, although I can't imagine what that would look like. But I don't believe it's reasonable to believe some things are not discovered. Why would He not have used any means to reveal something important to us?

Well we could say a lot of things to that can't we, like why didn't Jesus reveal himself in this modern age, why doesn't he show signs and wonders now to make more believers etc. It didn't and I doubt it'll go like that.
But for extra biblical literature to be around would be beneficial to the bible itself. It's not like God would be MAKING extra scriptures now; extra scriptures could already be around, just undiscovered.

This is especially so with regard to Old Testament writings for the reason I gave in post #8:

"My understanding is this. The scripture of the Old Testament was handed down orally from the beginning. The Word was memorized to perfection and handed down from generation to generation. When it was put down in print, there was no dispute as to what would be included down to every last word. Memorization was critical, and they placed the Word on their hearts. We don't have the original manuscripts, but we do have the Word handed down that all of Israel was in complete agreement with as it got passed on to B.C. times. There was no one contradicting another, because scripture was so well memorized. For that reason, I conclude without a doubt that scripture is complete and true to the original."
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I'm not so sure.

Again if there are extra written pieces around it needn't be a contradiction to what we know already ...
 
lamplady said:
Well we could say a lot of things to that can't we, like why didn't Jesus reveal himself in this modern age, why doesn't he show signs and wonders now to make more believers etc. It didn't and I doubt it'll go like that.
But for extra biblical literature to be around would be beneficial to the bible itself. It's not like God would be MAKING extra scriptures now; extra scriptures could already be around, just undiscovered.
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You're missing out. Miracles are happening all over the world.

Also keep this in mind about miracles for the sole purpose of making 'believers'

Matthew 16:4 (NIV)
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
 
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Mike said:
Lamplady, I guess I just take it on faith that the Lord would not have part of His Message to us undiscovered, unknown and unrevealed. Now, I suppose I could make way for something to be revealed by Him that somehow "updates" us on His Plan, although I can't imagine what that would look like. But I don't believe it's reasonable to believe some things are not discovered. Why would He not have used any means to reveal something important to us?

This is especially so with regard to Old Testament writings for the reason I gave in post #8:

"My understanding is this. The scripture of the Old Testament was handed down orally from the beginning. The Word was memorized to perfection and handed down from generation to generation. When it was put down in print, there was no dispute as to what would be included down to every last word. Memorization was critical, and they placed the Word on their hearts. We don't have the original manuscripts, but we do have the Word handed down that all of Israel was in complete agreement with as it got passed on to B.C. times. There was no one contradicting another, because scripture was so well memorized. For that reason, I conclude without a doubt that scripture is complete and true to the original."
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on that note the ot wasnt compiled till after the time period after malachi and around the time of the maccabean revolt.
 
Lamplady, I don't know anything else to say that hasn't been said here already. As far as anyone knows, the Canon, the Apocrypha, and the various "lost scriptures" (Peter, Thomas, etc) are all there are, and the lost scriptures weren't included in the Canon because at best, they couldn't be validated, and at worst, were outright fabrications.

I suppose you'll have to take it on faith that the Word we have is all there is. You mentioned that it could be the Holy Spirit who's leading you to believe there's more. I'm not going to be so bold as to definitively say you're mistaken, but I certainly think you are.

TG
 
Tailgunner said:
Lamplady, I don't know anything else to say that hasn't been said here already. As far as anyone knows, the Canon, the Apocrypha, and the various "lost scriptures" (Peter, Thomas, etc) are all there are, and the lost scriptures weren't included in the Canon because at best, they couldn't be validated, and at worst, were outright fabrications.

I suppose you'll have to take it on faith that the Word we have is all there is.

Why should we?


You mentioned that it could be the Holy Spirit who's leading you to believe there's more. I'm not going to be so bold as to definitively say you're mistaken, but I certainly think you are.

I didn't it was - I said how do we know? ...

TG
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K We already know the originals from the original authors have NOT been found, so so far part of what I said is already true - that there could be original scriptures out there. If they do turn up, then we'll know if they're in a different tongue and have more to it.

However, nothing don't happen without God's say so and nothing don't happen before it's time ...
 
theLords said:
You're missing out. Miracles are happening all over the world.


But when I said, 'signs and wonders', I meant in such a spectacular sense where the whole world or most of the world get to see it at once ...


Also keep this in mind about miracles for the sole purpose of making 'believers'

Matthew 16:4 (NIV)
A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.
Click to expand...

....
 
Yes I know theLords.

When I said what I said about, 'signs and wonders' it wasn't because I wanted unbelievers to believe, it was in response to Mike who said, "Why would He not have used any means to reveal something important to us?"

Re-read to get the gist :) ...
 
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Originally Posted by Tailgunner
Lamplady, I don't know anything else to say that hasn't been said here already. As far as anyone knows, the Canon, the Apocrypha, and the various "lost scriptures" (Peter, Thomas, etc) are all there are, and the lost scriptures weren't included in the Canon because at best, they couldn't be validated, and at worst, were outright fabrications.

I suppose you'll have to take it on faith that the Word we have is all there is.

Why should we?


You mentioned that it could be the Holy Spirit who's leading you to believe there's more. I'm not going to be so bold as to definitively say you're mistaken, but I certainly think you are.

I didn't it was - I said how do we know? ...

TG"



As for your first question, why should we (take it on faith that the Word we have is all there is?), the answer is we should take it on faith because He's God, and it's His Word. I'll refer you to the first verse cited in your own signature: Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. (NASB)
And for your second question, how do we know? We don't. At least I don't know that it's not the Holy Spirit leading you to this thought that there must be more undiscovered scripture out there somewhere. But again, I don't think it is, because the best evidence is that there is no more, nor need there be anymore scripture. God has revealed the redemptive history of mankind in His Word, and provided a means of salvation.


"K We already know the originals from the original authors have NOT been found, so so far part of what I said is already true - that there could be original scriptures out there. If they do turn up, then we'll know if they're in a different tongue and have more to it."


How would we know if they were the original autographs? We don't have a handwriting sample from Paul, John, Peter, nor any of the rest by which to verify them, and no one is now living who saw the actual letters. I'm no expert in Biblical archeology, but I really don't know how else we could know. And if they were in a different language, it seems to me that would almost guarantee that they weren't the originals, because we know what languages they spoke and wrote.
Think of this also, that there may be a good reason the autographs weren't preserved, because what would happen if we knew a writing had actually come from the hand of Peter, for example? Don't you think the scroll itself would become an object of awe and worship?
Lamplady, I really hope everyone that's posted here has somehow helped to answer your questions about this.

TG
 
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