Bible Study Do we love the truth!

[GodsGrace]

I didn't accuse you, I was asking a question. Here is what I wrote:

But now that I know there are really people like Hopeful 2 who deny that they commit any sins, I do concede that your comments could be in line with the false doctrine of sinless perfection. Maybe you could clarify.​

Since I didn't mention anything about sinless perfection, I have nothing to clarify.

​

Actually, I have not read or referenced a commentary in many years, maybe decades. But I do use several theological dictionaries and lexicons to better understand the original languages of the NT. In my Logos Bible software I have the difinitive Greek dictionary titled "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament". It can get very wordy because it goes into a great deal of detail. So sometimes I rely on the Louw-Nida Greek-English Lexicon that I referenced in the post you are objecting to. In case you don't know, a Lexicon is not a commentary. Wikipedia says that a lexicon is "essentially a catalogue of a language's words (its wordstock)". So, what I gave you was not someone's commentary, but an explanation of what the Greek words in John 3:36 mean. I quoted the experts ver batim to make it easy to see that my opinions were in line.

Your opinion was in line with what you seem to believe to be the truth.
Your opinion is not in line with EITHER the New Testament OR what the Apostles passed on to the next generation of Christians.

Thanks for explaining what a lexicon is.
It's much appreciated....

You have no idea to what extent I have studied the word. To give you a flavor for it, I wrote this a decade ago...

Through faith, we accept and treasure His communications. Through faith, we speak back to Him knowing that He hears us. Through faith, we know His will. Through faith, we discern whether we are in rebellion against Him. Through faith, we know what it feels like to experience His correction. Through faith, we know the peaceable fruit of righteousness that comes from being trained by Him. Through faith, we know these things and experience these things in spite of the fact that we can’t see Him with our eyes, hear Him with our ears, or touch Him with our hands (Heb. 11:27).​

​

But what exactly is faith? To find out, let’s consider the Greek word in the New Testament that we translate faith. That word is πιστις. Don’t worry if you can’t read it. Just look at the first four letters, πιστ-. This is the stem, and it carries the meaning of the word. In this case, the stem means “faith”. The last two letters, -ις, form the ending. Greek endings differentiate parts of speech. In this case, the ending tells us that Πιστις is a noun. The same stem with the ending, -ευω, is a verb. With -ος as its ending, it is an adjective. In Greek, to form the negative of a word they may add an alpha-prefix (α-). This is like our word atypical, which means “not typical.”​

I thought we were speaking of the word BELEIVE.....not faith.

I stated that TO BELIEVE implies TO OBEY.

You don't seem to know this.
It sounds as if you think that believe just means to have some kind of belief in Jesus and that nothing further is necessary from you.

Sorry if I misunderstood.
It sure sounds like you believe the above.

​

​	​ Basic Form​	​ Negative Form​
​ Noun​	​ πιστ-ις: “confidence,” “trust,” “faith”​	​ α-πιστ-ια: “unfaithfulness,” “distrust,” “doubt”​
​ Verb​	​ πιστ-ευω: “to trust,” “to rely on,” “to believe”​	​ α-πιστ-εω: “to refuse to believe,” “to be distrustful,” “to be unbelieving”​
​ Adjective​	​ πιστ-ος: “trusting,” “faithful,” “trustworthy”​	​ α-πιστ-ος: “distrustful,” “unfaithful,” “unreliable”​

Look at the noun, verb, and adjectival forms of the Greek word for faith in the table above.https://christianforums.net/#_edn1 Notice that the stem (πιστ-) is the same in each instance, and that the negative forms all have the alpha-prefix (α-).​

I am showing this table, in spite of the fact that most readers probably do not know the Greek language, in order to help clarify the meaning of faith. Faith can be mysterious and hard to understand, or twisted, and made even harder to understand. But this table makes it clear that if a person has faith, it simply means that he has confidence or trust in someone or something. To be without faith means that he lacks confidence or that he refuses to believe. And a faithful person is someone who trusts someone or something, or one who is trustworthy. He is the opposite of one who is distrustful or unreliable.​

---

https://christianforums.net/#_ednref1 Theological dictionary of the New Testament. 1964–c1976. Vols. 5–9 edited by Gerhard Friedrich. Vol. 10 compiled by Ronald Pitkin. (G. Kittel, G. W. Bromiley & G. Friedrich, Ed.) (electronic ed.) (6:174). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.​

I truly appreciate the Greek lessons.
I speak 3 languages myself and have a theologian friend that speaks and teaches both Hebrew and Greek.

Plus, I kind of take if for granted that the persons who translated the manuscripts of the New Testament were at least as smart as I am and I have some trust in them that they did a pretty good job.

I'm not expecting to be having to learn a new language to know what God expects from me.

Thanks for the translations (I couldn't keep them becusause of length). Please note that every translation you gave translates "πιστεύω" the same way, and in the manner that I showed above (i.e., “to trust,” “to rely on,” “to believe”). But they are not consistant in their translation of "οὐκ ἀπειθέω". Translations vary... "does not obey", "rejects", "does not believe", and "refues to believe". All of the translations, however, are consistent with what I said in my post (repeated here for convenience):

If you say so New Life.
Be happy.

The second instance of "believe" is "ἀπειθέω". In a general sense, it can mean "unwillingness or refusal to comply with the demands of some authority—‘to disobey, disobedience’" [Louw-Nida]. But, simply applying the general sense of the word does not do justice in this context because in the NT the word specifically means, "to refuse to believe the Christian message—‘to refuse to be a believer, to reject the Christian message, to refuse to believe’" [Louw Nida].​

Sincerely, I don't know what you're talking about in your last paragraph.
You must really like the Greek language.
I like, instead, to know what God wants from me.

BTW, my theologian friend, the one who knows Greek, he agrees with me.
I think I trust him.

 

[donadams]

Both of those are talking about the great tribulation. What does that have to do with everyone who died before us? And what does it have to do with us if the great tribulation starts after we die?

But even if it were applicable to our salvation, I would apply the principle which Peter wrote about in 1 Peter 1:6-9...

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. (1 Pe 1:6–9)​

The principle, of course, is that genuine faith does not fail when tested by trials.

It is not coincidental that in this passage is one of many instances where the inspired writers of the NT point to salvation that is currently posssessed by true Christians. Peter wrote verse 9 with one main verb ("you rejoice") in the present tense with three supporting participles ("not seeing", "believing", and "receiving) also in the present tense. The significance of the participles being in present tense is that the time of action of present participles is coincident with the timing of the main verb, which in this case is present tense. This passage says that those whose faith is genuine and holds up under trials have already received the end of their faith which is the salvation of their souls.

No one is “saved” until we abide in Christ Jn 15:4 endure to the end Matt 24:13

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Rev 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Thks

 

[donadams]

Both of those are talking about the great tribulation. What does that have to do with everyone who died before us? And what does it have to do with us if the great tribulation starts after we die?

But even if it were applicable to our salvation, I would apply the principle which Peter wrote about in 1 Peter 1:6-9...

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. (1 Pe 1:6–9)​

The principle, of course, is that genuine faith does not fail when tested by trials.

It is not coincidental that in this passage is one of many instances where the inspired writers of the NT point to salvation that is currently posssessed by true Christians. Peter wrote verse 9 with one main verb ("you rejoice") in the present tense with three supporting participles ("not seeing", "believing", and "receiving) also in the present tense. The significance of the participles being in present tense is that the time of action of present participles is coincident with the timing of the main verb, which in this case is present tense. This passage says that those whose faith is genuine and holds up under trials have already received the end of their faith which is the salvation of their souls.

Do think the great trib period has another form of salvation than we do?

 

[BB1956]

Do we love the Truth

I definitely agree we have to love the truth. However I have found that although most will agree that, The fullness of the truth is expressed in the Gospels in Doctrine and in tbe Commandments, not all agree with what the truth is in the Gospels, or what is true Doctrine and are the true commandments in the scriptures.
I believe this is why there are so many religious organizations(Churches) saying they are Christian organizations. They all don't agree with what exactly is the truth in the scriptures, even though they all agree, the fullness of the truth is expressed in the Gospels, in Doctrine, and in the Commandments.
Jesus Christ said at John 8: 45, 46, "Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. Who of you convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me?"
The majority of the Jews in the nation of Israel didn't believe Jesus Christ. Only a minority of the Jews believed that what he taught was the truth.
I believe today that the majority that say they're servants of the only true God, are not actually believing the truth that's in the scriptures. I agree that the majority truly believe that they're believing and practicing the truth that's in the scriptures, but I just don't believe that to be true.
Today we have the Gospels, the doctrines and commandments in the scriptures, yet we all don't agree what that truth is in the scriptures concerning the Gospels, the Doctrines and the Commandments.
We all can quote scriptures like, John 14: 6 which says, "Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life." But different Christian organizations(Churches) differs on what exactly that means.
When it comes to the statement, "Do we love the truth,k" if we truly believe that then we must believe that the driving force behind Christians worship is love. I believe that's the truth. Paul wrote at 2 Corinthians 5:14: “The love of the Christ compels us.” At John 15:12,13 Jesus commanded his followers to love one another. So iI believe self-sacrificing love is the basis of the law of the Christ, and it compels or motivates true Christians everywhere, both in the family and in the congregation(Church).
God showed the greatest love toward mankind when he sent his only begotten Son to die for mankind so that anyone of mankind who exercises faith in that loving act that God and his only begotten Son showed toward mankind would get everlasting life. The scriptures at Romans 5:6-10 show that mankind was God's enemies when he and his only begotten Son showed that loving sacrificial act toward mankind. So the truth is we are to show love toward all mankind because God showed love toward all mankind.
At John 17:3 Jesus was praying to YHWH God, and he said, "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." I believe what he said is the truth. We have to study the scriptures to find out the truth about who the true God is and the truth about who is the person that the only true God sent to mankind, who's name is Jesus Christ. Not everyone who says they're Christians agree with what that truth is concerning those two persons.
So I agree we should ask ourselves, "Do we love the truth." So we should ask God for his Holy Spirit when we read and study his word the Bible to get that truth that's in the scriptures, concerning who God is, and who the person who God sent to mankind, because learning the truth about these two persons means eternal life.

 

[donadams]

Is eternal life the same as salvation?

Are we required to love Jesus Christ to be saved?

Thks

 

[BB1956]

Is eternal life the same as salvation?

Are we required to love Jesus Christ to be saved?

Thks

Isn't it true that those who are saved, will live forever, after they're resurrected? I could be wrong, but I don't think you believe after those that God has judged as faithful and righteous they will die again after their resurrection. So doesn't it mean that those that are saved will live forever after their resurrection? So are you saying that's not eternal life?

Isn't Salvation about people loving God so much that they exercise faith in him, that they believe that only the true God, is the only person who knows what's in the best interests of what he created(what is good) or what isn't in the best interests of what he created(what is bad). These are the one's who will get eternal life. Why, because those who are faithful of the offspring of Adam have faith that the seed of promise that God stated at Genesis 3:15 will save them out of the sinful condition that they're living in.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Sorry for the confusion

Jn 3:5

Point 1) cannot enter the “kingdom”
Point 2) must be born again

You ok with this so far?

So far so good.

Can you please explain how you chose 2 pet 1:11, 2 cor 8:19, and Acts 16:17 to support you claim that "grace & reconciliation MUST be administered to us by the apostles"? It's important because I need to know what kind of person I'm dealing with.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Since I didn't mention anything about sinless perfection, I have nothing to clarify.

You proved my suspicions were wrong when you denied it.

I thought we were speaking of the word BELEIVE.....not faith.

If you had read and understood what I wrote about the Greek words for "faith" (noun), "believe" (verb), and "faithful" (adjective) having the same stem, you would not be confused about the English word "believe" being the verbal form of the noun "faith". Your question boils down to a silly argument that we are talking about the verbal form of a word instead of the noun form of the word.

I stated that TO BELIEVE implies TO OBEY.

The word itself does not imply obedience. If you believe you hear a train comming, your belief does not imply you will obey the train.

You don't seem to know this.
It sounds as if you think that believe just means to have some kind of belief in Jesus and that nothing further is necessary from you.

It was not me, but God who decided on His own, with no counsel from man, "to save those who believe" (1 Cor 1:21). It's not my paradigm, but His.

Sincerely, I don't know what you're talking about in your last paragraph.

The point is that John used two different and distinct words that are translated "believes" and "does not believe" in the NKJ version of John 3:36. The first word does not carry or imply obedience". But the second word does carry the meaning of "disobeying or rejecting an authority". But, many translators (according to your list) do not put the emphasis on disobeying, but on "refusing to believe" Christ. You may not agree with them, but you can't say I'm making things up just because I agree with them.

You must really like the Greek language.
I like, instead, to know what God wants from me.

I do like looking at the Greek NT because it is the language that it was originally written in, and it often clarifies ambiguous English wording. Given the electronic helps we have at our disposal today, it is very easy to access.

BTW, my theologian friend, the one who knows Greek, he agrees with me.
I think I trust him.

If you show him my table of the Greek words with the "πιστ-" stem, including the paragraph that comes before it and the one that follows it, and if you tell Him I got the definitions for the words from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, I am 100% sure he will verify what I said is right, including the fact that "faith" and "believing" are the noun and verb forms of the same Greek word (stem).

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

No one is “saved” until we abide in Christ Jn 15:4 endure to the end Matt 24:13

I guess you are saying Peter didn't know what he was talking about.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Do think the great trib period has another form of salvation than we do?

I didn't say that. But being saved from the tribulation is not the same thing as being saved from eternal damnation.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Is eternal life the same as salvation?

No. They are related, but not the same thing. See John 3:16. "Shall not perish" is salvation (saved from eternal damnation). "Have everlasting life" moves beyond not perishing and extends forever. We are currently saved from etrnal damnation, and we currently have eternal life that will last forever. Another way of looking at it is that the forgiveness Christ has given us wipes our slate clean so that we go from negative infinity to zero. But Jesus coming to live in our hearts takes us from zero to positive infinity.

Are we required to love Jesus Christ to be saved?

I can't think of any verses that say He will not save us from our sins unless we love Him first. I'd be surprised if that verse exists.

 

[donadams]

So far so good.

Can you please explain how you chose 2 pet 1:11, 2 cor 8:19, and Acts 16:17 to support you claim that "grace & reconciliation MUST be administered to us by the apostles"? It's important because I need to know what kind of person I'm dealing with.

Ok don’t get ahead

Key to understanding is in Jn 3:5 cannot enter “the kingdom”!

2 pet 1:1

Shows how we can enter “the Kingdom”!

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Being born again is not by “faith alone” but shall be administered to us!

Still good?

 

[donadams]

I guess you are saying Peter didn't know what he was talking about.

Referring to?

 

[GodsGrace]

You proved my suspicions were wrong when you denied it.

If you had read and understood what I wrote about the Greek words for "faith" (noun), "believe" (verb), and "faithful" (adjective) having the same stem, you would not be confused about the English word "believe" being the verbal form of the noun "faith". Your question boils down to a silly argument that we are talking about the verbal form of a word instead of the noun form of the word.

Actually New Life what's silly is that we're arguing about a WORD.
And I've already explained my position to you that WORDS, VERSES and even PARAGRAGPHS cannot fully explain what the entire NT reveals about God.

The word itself does not imply obedience. If you believe you hear a train comming, your belief does not imply you will obey the train.

??

It was not me, but God who decided on His own, with no counsel from man, "to save those who believe" (1 Cor 1:21). It's not my paradigm, but His.

The point is that John used two different and distinct words that are translated "believes" and "does not believe" in the NKJ version of John 3:36. The first word does not carry or imply obedience". But the second word does carry the meaning of "disobeying or rejecting an authority". But, many translators (according to your list) do not put the emphasis on disobeying, but on "refusing to believe" Christ. You may not agree with them, but you can't say I'm making things up just because I agree with them.

I gave you a whole list of versions of John 3:36 stating that one must believe AND obey.

If you don't believe it's necessary to OBEY GOD in order to be saved....
so be it.
The NT does REQUIRE OBEDIENCE in order to be saved.

James 1:21-25
21Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls. 22But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror; 24for once he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. 25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
Matthew 7:24-27
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
Romans 2:5-7
5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Luke 6:46
46“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
John 14:23
Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word,

I do like looking at the Greek NT because it is the language that it was originally written in, and it often clarifies ambiguous English wording. Given the electronic helps we have at our disposal today, it is very easy to access.

That God REQUIRES OBEDIENCE does not require any knowledge of Greek.

If you show him my table of the Greek words with the "πιστ-" stem, including the paragraph that comes before it and the one that follows it, and if you tell Him I got the definitions for the words from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, I am 100% sure he will verify what I said is right, including the fact that "faith" and "believing" are the noun and verb forms of the same Greek word (stem).

Yes. I'm sure neither one of us has anything better to do than discuss A WORD.
He's a THEOLOGIAN....he knows what is required to be saved.

But you keep believing as you do....
No one will change your mind but the Holy Spirit.

“Only he who believes is obedient,..
only he who is obedient believes.”
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

 

[BB1956]

NewlifeInChrist said,
"If you had read and understood what I wrote about the Greek words for "faith" (noun), "believe" (verb), and "faithful" (adjective) having the same stem, you would not be confused about the English word "believe" being the verbal form of the noun "faith".[/QUOTE\]

I think what the scriptures are teaching us about this, what it boils down to is that we must, "exercise faith." A person can say they believe that the only begotten Son of God came as a human being and sacrificed his human body(human life) so that anyone who exercises faith in that loving sacrificial act will get everlasting life. But what if that person who says that, doesn't actually love mankind as God does, and especially what if that person doesn't love his spiritual brothers and sisters? Is that person truly "exercising faith" in what he says he believes?

It's God who saves people, but he showed how he was going to do that all the way back at Genesis 3:15. The only begotten Son of God is the seed that's going to crush Satan's head.

At 1 John 3: 9-12 in some English versions of the Bible it says at verse 9, "whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin" Does that mean that person is sinless? I don't think so, because we all are born in sin, we all make mistakes. I believe what this scripture is teaching us is, that whosoever is begotten of God doesn't, "practice sin." I say that because I believe 1 John 3: 4-8 helps us to understand that John was making a distinction between a single sin and the practice of sinning.

 

[donadams]

I didn't say that. But being saved from the tribulation is not the same thing as being saved from eternal damnation.

Then trib or no trib only those who endure to the end are saved

Our tradition has always been pray for us now and at the hour of death!

more verses supporting “we must endure”

Already saved?

Then you Don’t need a father to care for our soul. heb 13:7 and 13:17

Don’t need to pray and watch.
Matt 26:41

1 pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 pet 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; (sound like faith alone to you?)


Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

The Christian life ends with salvation, it does not start with salvation!

Rom 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
1 pet 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Mk 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.




Are you saved?
How can you say you are saved in light of scripture?

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Can’t lose your salvation while still in this world:

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jn 15:1-5 abide

Matt 24:12 endure

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end.

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

Thks

 

[donadams]

No. They are related, but not the same thing. See John 3:16. "Shall not perish" is salvation (saved from eternal damnation). "Have everlasting life" moves beyond not perishing and extends forever. We are currently saved from etrnal damnation, and we currently have eternal life that will last forever. Another way of looking at it is that the forgiveness Christ has given us wipes our slate clean so that we go from negative infinity to zero. But Jesus coming to live in our hearts takes us from zero to positive infinity.

I can't think of any verses that say He will not save us from our sins unless we love Him first. I'd be surprised if that verse exists.

First and greatest commandment
Duet 6:5 love God

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

1 cor 13:2 faith requires charity

Faith hope and charity
Greatest is charity
1 cor 13:13

 

[donadams]

No. They are related, but not the same thing. See John 3:16. "Shall not perish" is salvation (saved from eternal damnation). "Have everlasting life" moves beyond not perishing and extends forever. We are currently saved from etrnal damnation, and we currently have eternal life that will last forever. Another way of looking at it is that the forgiveness Christ has given us wipes our slate clean so that we go from negative infinity to zero. But Jesus coming to live in our hearts takes us from zero to positive infinity.

I can't think of any verses that say He will not save us from our sins unless we love Him first. I'd be surprised if that verse exists.

Salvation is the whole thing
With each part in the process

Redemption

Justification

Sanctification

Death

Purge of sin

Glorification

(((Eternal life refers to God’s life in us aka grace)))

Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10 Jn 14:6 eph 2:1

Thks

 

[Hopeful 2]

I think what the scriptures are teaching us about this, what it boils down to is that we must, "exercise faith." A person can say they believe that the only begotten Son of God came as a human being and sacrificed his human body(human life) so that anyone who exercises faith in that loving sacrificial act will get everlasting life. But what if that person who says that, doesn't actually love mankind as God does, and especially what if that person doesn't love his spiritual brothers and sisters? Is that person truly "exercising faith" in what he says he believes?

Is any liar, thief, adulterer, or murderer exercising faith ?
No.

At 1 John 3: 9-12 in some English versions of the Bible it says at verse 9, "whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin" Does that mean that person is sinless?

Yes, and why ?
Because the seed of God remains in them !

I don't think so, because we all are born in sin,

False assumption, but besides the point, as those unreborn of God's seed are all sinners by their own doings.

we all make mistakes.

Mistakes are not sin.
No one is going to hell for misadding their check-book.

I believe what this scripture is teaching us is, that whosoever is begotten of God doesn't, "practice sin." I say that because I believe 1 John 3: 4-8 helps us to understand that John was making a distinction between a single sin and the practice of sinning.

The distinction John is making is that those reborn of God's seed cannot commit sin...much less practice them.
It is the unregenerated, who are still born of Adam, that commit all the sin.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Ok don’t get ahead

Key to understanding is in Jn 3:5 cannot enter “the kingdom”!

2 pet 1:1

Shows how we can enter “the Kingdom”!

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Being born again is not by “faith alone” but shall be administered to us!

Still good?

Starting to get off track.