What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Do you haft to be baptized?

Jethro Bodine said:
(emphasis mine)
And that is where the argument gets misrepresented IMO. Even if you do receive the Holy Spirit apart from water baptism, that does not now relieve you of the command to be water baptized.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm pleased to hear you say that.

It simply means you did not receive the Spirit at your water baptism. Some (very few in my experience) do receive the Spirit at water baptism, some do not. I just happen to be one that did not. But that certainly didn't mean I could skip my water baptism. It does have value in cementing one's decision, or pledge, to follow Christ in the obediences of faith.
Click to expand...

I would still like to know what you mean about the fire.

You said 'yes'. But what does that mean in actual fact? Did fire land on your head? or what?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
But probably not as holistic as you might be suggesting:

"...eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God." (1 Peter 3:20-21 NIV1984)

It is clear that God wants us to show our pledge of a clear conscience toward God by being baptized, but to suggest it may have literal physical value is a little extreme.
Click to expand...

Well... they were saved by the water.. all the evil people were destroyed in the flood and only those 8 were left behind to start a new life. All because they had a clean conscience toward God. yup, the flood was pretty extreem wasn't it. Imagine, the whole entire world, every inch of it flooded because of the wickedness of man. Saved by the water because they had a clean conscience.

Say.. sounds like baptismal theology to me lol!
 
4 baptisms are being put together as one in the same.

1 John's with water
2 Jesus' with the Holy Ghost.
3 Jesus' with fire.
4 By one Spirit into one body.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: -Matthew 3:11

The first three are found in Matthew 3:11

The fourth

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. -Galatians 3:27
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -Galatians 3:28

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? -Romans 6:3
 
Jethro Bodine said:
(emphasis mine)
And that is where the argument gets misrepresented IMO. Even if you do receive the Holy Spirit apart from water baptism, that does not now relieve you of the command to be water baptized.
Click to expand...

The beginning of Christianity (as the first few chapters of Acts) does not set a hard and fast manner by which the Spirit comes in those first few years of Christianity. This is not surprising, with any such religious movement - cultic procedure remains a bit ambiguous...

Sometimes, He comes before the actual water baptism, sometimes after. However, in Scriptures, the two are always associated. The Bible is not concerned with the chronological order in the very beginning - but that water baptism "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" is something that was commanded by Christ and the means by which we are buried with Him in His death and resurrection. It is through baptism that one enters into Christ.

One NEVER merely just receives Christian water baptism without the Spirit in Scriptures. The two are always associated. There are not a body of Christians who just received the ritual, (what you might say are "pew sitters") and others who CLAIM that they received the Spirit without the ritual (people who refuse to submit to baptism, claiming there is no need).

Clearly, ALL who are Christian water baptized, in Scriptures, have received the Spirit of God, since there is no provision once Christianity settles in for ANYONE to "ensure" that they really received the Spirit through some subjective baptism - nor is there anything in Scriptures that denigrates Christian water baptism, for it is through THIS that we are saved. Go beyond the first few chapters of Acts and see if there are any such statements about Baptism.

Jethro Bodine said:
It simply means you did not receive the Spirit at your water baptism. Some (very few in my experience) do receive the Spirit at water baptism, some do not.
Click to expand...

And here is the problem with this attitude...

A person is only part of the Body - by a "valid" Baptism - if they are "perfect disciples". Sacred Scriptures very rarely makes such claims. I am not familiar with any. Practically EVERY NT epistle PRESUMES that some BAPTIZED Christians are not living up to the standards EXPECTED of their inheritance. Have you read 1 Corinthians? Paul states the community was baptized - and yet, look at all the problems. Do those actions of strife mean "they never were baptized to begin with"? Clearly, the Spirit does not FORCE anyone to be a perfect disciple. Thus, this subjective idea that only the "perfect" actually ever were baptized "for real" cannot stand. Why? Because any future sin would "prove" you never WERE baptized to begin with!

Throughout Scriptures, we have members of the family of God, faltering, falling away, wandering. Does that prove they never were part of the family??? Do Jews who sin prove they really aren't Jews? Does Jesus, when searching for the lost sheep, decide, "oh, they aren't part of my flock, because they got lost"? Jesus came to bring sinners to the Father. As such, your idea that "one is not baptized by water because of how they act in the immediate future" is not Scripturally based. We have countless stories of people who LATER DO return, such as the Prodigal Son. If Jesus taught what you are stating, the Father would state "who are you"? "you aren't my son - I never knew you. By your life of perdition, you prove you weren't baptized in the Spirit"

Are we to claim that ONLY when the Prodigal Son realized his error - only THEN - was he really the son of the Father??? Baptism is indeed entrance into the family of God. We are children of the Father. Even if we don't appreciate it later, our baptism is not nullified.

Jethro Bodine said:
I just happen to be one that did not. But that certainly didn't mean I could skip my water baptism. It does have value in cementing one's decision, or pledge, to follow Christ in the obediences of faith.
Click to expand...

One cannot make such a statement of fact. God can be present within someone and the person could be unaware or hardhearted to that fact for the present time. On the other hand, emotional outbursts do not prove that God's Spirit resides within you...

The proof is obedience of the commandments. Not feelings. Not proclamations. And current disobedience does not prove that the Spirit NEVER came to dwell there - or that a seed for the future is not present.

Regards
 
kjb1769--Are you saying (post 144) that the ONE baptism of Eph. 4:5 is composed of the 4 baptisms you list in that post?
 
Webb said:
kjb1769--Are you saying (post 144) that the ONE baptism of Eph. 4:5 is composed of the 4 baptisms you list in that post?
Click to expand...

No sir.
But it appears to me that is what some are implying.

I'm saying the one baptism Eph 4:5 is the baptism found in 1 Cor 12:13.
 
kjb1769--I agree that the baptism of I Cor.12:13 is the ONE baptism of Eph.4:5. I further believe it to be water baptism which is a burial and that for the remission of sins, and NOT Holy Spirit baptism.
 
Reba: Regarding post 149, that problem was solved 2,000 years ago by your Lord and mine when He forcefully said just before His blessed feet pulled away from mother earth and He ascended to heaven: ''GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE, HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED, HE THAT BELIVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED" Mark 16:15,16. These were His last words spoken on earth. Are they important or not? If Jesus didn't mean what He said then just WHAT did He mean in that passage?? Let's remember, we ALL will be judged in the last day by HIS words!
 
Webb said:
kjb1769--I agree that the baptism of I Cor.12:13 is the ONE baptism of Eph.4:5. I further believe it to be water baptism which is a burial and that for the remission of sins, and NOT Holy Spirit baptism.
Click to expand...

I along with you do not believe it is Holy Spirit baptism, if you mean the baptism "with" the Holy Spirit as promised in Acts 1:5.

I do believe it is the Spirit baptizing the believer into the "Body of Christ".
 
Webb said:
Reba: Regarding post 149, that problem was solved 2,000 years ago by your Lord and mine when He forcefully said just before His blessed feet pulled away from mother earth and He ascended to heaven: ''GO YE INTO ALL THE WORLD AND PREACH THE GOSPEL TO EVERY CREATURE, HE THAT BELIEVETH AND IS BAPTIZED SHALL BE SAVED, HE THAT BELIVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED" Mark 16:15,16. These were His last words spoken on earth. Are they important or not? If Jesus didn't mean what He said then just WHAT did He mean in that passage?? Let's remember, we ALL will be judged in the last day by HIS words!
Click to expand...
He did not say HE THAT IS BAPTIZED NOT SHALL BE DAMNED


ADDED Christians should be baptized i was being sorta silly. We cant seem to agree on what it even is....
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jesus didn't have to say "he that is not baptized shall be damned" because to 1st part of that verse (Mk.16:16) tells you what to do to be saved (believe and be baptized) the last half of the verse tells what to do to be lost, simply don't believe. Remember, Jesus said "but he that believeth not is condemned already". Methinks if we reasoned about the Bible ( Isa.1:18) like we reason about most anything else, we would do much better. Again, I ask if Jesus did not mean what He said in Mk.16:15,16 then JUST EXACTLY WHAT DID HE MEAN??
 
kjb1769- Maybe its a matter of semantics between us here. Until I know, I shall with hold comment on your last post.
 
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.


Did he mean just what He said in Mat 5 :37?

Did he mean just what He said in John 6:56

Some things are symbolic some are not
 
Webb said:
kjb1769--I agree that the baptism of I Cor.12:13 is the ONE baptism of Eph.4:5. I further believe it to be water baptism which is a burial and that for the remission of sins, and NOT Holy Spirit baptism.
Click to expand...

Has anyone considered that the 1 baptism spoken of is plainly and simply a reference to being "baptized" into Christ as opposed to being baptized, added to, or being placed under the authority of anything but The Christ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top