All of it? no mention of baptism in John 3 16
To declare man MUST be baptized for salvation is to declare the Cross, the Sacrifice, the Blood of Christ was/is not enough.
Should a believer be baptized YES
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Do you have to be baptized to achieve salvation?
- Thread starter 7ruth
- Start date
To declare man MUST be baptized for salvation is to declare the Cross, the Sacrifice, the Blood of Christ was/is not enough.
Should a believer be baptized YES
Ernest T. Bass
Member
Hi,
in Mk 16:16 Jesus made belief a prerequisite to being baptized. No one can be scripturally baptized without first believing. So when Jesus said "he that believeth not" that phrase automatically includes not being baptized.
In verse 17 and 18 the plural pronouns they and them refer back to the plural antecedent "the eleven" in verse 14. In this context it was the apostles who were not believing and Jesus upbraided them for their unbelief, v14. So the signs would be given to the apostles that believed as verse 20 clearly shows. Paul referred to them as "signs of an apostle" 2 Cor 12:12, not 'signs of a believer'. Furthermore, in 1 Cor 12:29,30 not all believers had the ability to perform a sign.
No mention of baptism in John 3:16? Does John 3:16 mention repentance???? Must one repent of sin in order to be saved?? Answer yes or no. Jesus said "except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish". Must one confess that Jesus is the Christ to be saved??? Jesus said if you do not confess Him He will not confess you before His Father. Read John 12 where certain ones "believed" in Jesus but would not confess Him, tell us, can such be saved by such refusal to confess Christ?? Read the Bible, believe the Bible.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
Rom 10:17 faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God.
If faith only comes from God, then who's fault is it if I had no faith?
Mt 8:26 Jesus criticized some for having little faith. If faith comes from God then Jesus should have criticized God for not giving them sufficient faith.
Faith in Rom 12:3 is not referring to personal faith but to an office or work given to each Christian. This faith is function/office in v4 or gift in v6. See also 1 Cor 12:11.
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Ernest T. Bass
Member
Peter explains what water baptism is not for, it's not for putting away the filth of the flesh. But nothing in the context changes the simple fact baptism doth also now save us.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
I do not see "grace" or the "blood of Christ" mentioned in Jn 3:16 either.
stovebolts
Member
Matthew 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Apparently Jesus wants us to "DO" something...
Matthew 7:22-24 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock:
stovebolts
Member
Eventide
Member
I think that one of the most important portions of scripture regarding how every person is saved (we're all saved in the exact same way) is found in Eph 1..
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
By faith we are saved and faith comes by hearing the word.. GOD ALONE can judge the heart so HE ALONE seals a person with the Holy Spirit after they believe.
Water baptism is for believers.. and believers have already had the baptism of the Holy Spirit... and that's what Paul writes in 1 Cor 12... that we are all baptized into that one body BY THE SAME SPIRIT.
There's only one baptism.. so you need to decide which one is necessary for salvation.. baptism with water AFTER a person believes, or the baptism into the body of Christ after a person believes..
IMO it's obvious.. and I think that it's a shame that multitudes of people are taught over and over again that they're born again (even if they're an infant) because some guy dipped them in water.
I agree with the statement.. how did we ever get to this place.. ?
I'll add by saying that of course a born again Christian should be baptized in water.. although they're already saved at that point.. and the importance of this is to also show the assembly that you're willing to identify yourself PUBLICLY with the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
By faith we are saved and faith comes by hearing the word.. GOD ALONE can judge the heart so HE ALONE seals a person with the Holy Spirit after they believe.
Water baptism is for believers.. and believers have already had the baptism of the Holy Spirit... and that's what Paul writes in 1 Cor 12... that we are all baptized into that one body BY THE SAME SPIRIT.
There's only one baptism.. so you need to decide which one is necessary for salvation.. baptism with water AFTER a person believes, or the baptism into the body of Christ after a person believes..
IMO it's obvious.. and I think that it's a shame that multitudes of people are taught over and over again that they're born again (even if they're an infant) because some guy dipped them in water.
I agree with the statement.. how did we ever get to this place.. ?
I'll add by saying that of course a born again Christian should be baptized in water.. although they're already saved at that point.. and the importance of this is to also show the assembly that you're willing to identify yourself PUBLICLY with the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jethro Bodine
Member
And it is this insight that the church lacks today that makes this such a difficult issue to discern. Repentance and baptism were synonymous with each other. To be baptized meant you were repenting. To repent meant you then went to get baptized, following in the tradition of John's baptism. Baptism was how you repented to be saved.
But for us today the two have been separated from each other so that we argue over whether it is the repenting that saves or the act of water baptism. A very misguided question, IMO. It's missing the point. To argue that baptism itself saves requires us to then insist that a woman can not be saved unless she bears a child. I doubt anybody would defend that misguided view of what Paul said, even though at face value that is exactly what he said:
15 But women will be saved through childbearing..." (1 Timothy 2:15 NIV)
The whole counsel of scripture teaches us that 'childbearing' must be indicative of something other than the legalistic act of bearing a child, just as baptism is indicative of something other than just a legalistic act on a checklist of 'to do's' to be saved that when completed saves a person.
The church can be her own worst enemy sometimes.
What a joy it would be to have a brief teaching about Biblical baptism with them and then take them down to the nearest creek and have a good old fashioned (as in early church) baptism, with lots of testimonies, and praise and worship. They would not soon forget it.When we moved to this little community way, way out here, we did go to the church... members of this community had been going to this church for years and once when we were having Bible study together, I was amazed to find that the church had never baptized anyone. Well over half of the people at the Bible study had never been baptized and those who had been, had been baptized somewhere else.
Handy you really need to study the fundamendal purpose of the conversion (Acts chapters 10,11) of Cornelius then perhaps you can understand why they were baptized in water after being baptized in the Spirit. Its all there, take off the denominational glasses and study it, and I say this with much respect for you.
handy
Member
Frankly, the believer is saved when the Holy Spirit does His work of regeneration!
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7
Seriously, we cannot simply stay with "believe"... the demons believe.
And, how do we separate repent and be baptized?
Should we even try?
We all are quick to state that it is not by works we are saved... and yet we have this overwhelming need to pinpoint our own salvation based upon when we have done something...
When I believed....
When I repented...
When I was baptized...
None of that is what saves us... our salvation is wholly dependent upon God, the death of His Son, the work of His Spirit.
That believe, repent and baptized is our earthly response to all of this is evident... but let's not put the wrong person in the driver's seat here.
handy
Member
I'm surprised that you think I'm looking at this with "denominational glasses"...
Which denomination's glasses?
That said, I'll certainly read through Acts 10 and 11...
E
Elijah674
Guest
Frankly, the believer is saved when the Holy Spirit does His work of regeneration!
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7
Seriously, we cannot simply stay with "believe"... the demons believe.
And, how do we separate repent and be baptized?
Should we even try?
We all are quick to state that it is not by works we are saved... and yet we have this overwhelming need to pinpoint our own salvation based upon when we have done something...
When I believed....
When I repented...
When I was baptized...
None of that is what saves us... our salvation is wholly dependent upon God, the death of His Son, the work of His Spirit.
That believe, repent and baptized is our earthly response to all of this is evident... but let's not put the wrong person in the driver's seat here.
Acts 5:32 has theHoly Spirit GIVEN to ONLY THOSE WHO [[OBEY HIM]]. So He knows in Eternity what the person 'consented to do' at that moment of time. Matt. 28:20 has one TAUGHT COMPLETE OBEDIENCE (100% Total Surrender) is that Acts 5:32's CONDITION for becoming Born Again!
---Elijah
Ernest T. Bass
Member
1)baptism is the point where sins are remitted, Acts 2:38. I remained lost in my unremitted sins until I was water baptized and then in water baptism God did the work of cutting away (remitting) the body of sin, Col 2:12.
2) The Ephesians would have been baptized:
a)Eph 2:8 the Ephesians were saved through faith
EPh 2:8---faith>>>>>>>>>>>saved
2Pet3:21--baptism>>>>>>>>save
Only one way to be saved so thier fath must have included baptism.
b)in Eph 1:1-9 several times Paul says the Ephesians were spiritually located "in Him' or "in Christ". Gal 3:27 baptism is the only way to be in Christ for 'belief only' does not put one in Christ.
c)In Acts 19:5 some of the EPhesians were baptized in the name of the Lord which is the same baptism of Acts 2:38
d) the Ephesians would have been born again and were per Eph 5:26 cf Jn 3:5.
Eph 5:26----the word ++++++++++++washing of water>>>>>>>>cleansed
Jn 3:5-------spirit+++++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
The Ephesains washing of water references thier having been water baptized. Above you mentioned 1 Cor 12 where the Corinthians were born again, so we have:
Eph 5:26----the word ++++++++++++washing of water>>>>>>>>cleansed
Jn 3:5-------spirit+++++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13---spirit++++++++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the body
All three verses refer to being born again. Since "cleansed", 'in the kingdom' and 'in the body' are all equivalent, all refer to a save position. Since there is but only one way to be saved then all three verses MUST express the same idea. That means "washing of water", "water" and "baptized" all refer to water baptism.
There is one baptism in effect today, Eph 4:5 and that would be Christ's water baptism of the great commission, Mt 28:19,20, Mk 16:15,16; Lk 24:47 cf Acts 2:38.
Jethro Bodine
Member
I think what he means is you're not looking at it through his denominational glasses.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Let us know when you receive the Holy Spirit.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Then let's not forget to include...
1 Timothy 2:15----childbearing>>>>>>saved
And, according to Elijah64, women are not saved until they are fully compliant with this requirement.