Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of existence

[jasoncran]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

whenever you all start digging into the hebrew mind and the culture of the jews and the caballah and the letters that have meanings such as Yud, vav,hey and what they mean. then you shall see that the entire concept of GOD and the afterlife and the beggining of it all arent able to be fully grasped by us mortals. yes somethings are given but God uses metaphors of this phyiscal and present age to show us what he is and what the after life is like.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

I believe there is eternal punishment but not "physical" eternal punishment. I believe Jesus was using His description of this place in order to give us an idea of how horrible it will be for those who don't repent and believe. We as His Creation cannot conceive of the concept of being totally and completely separated from His Love, so Jesus used something He knew we could relate to.

I believe there can be no physical pain compared to the forever agony of knowing you pridefully rejected the One who Created you and offered you Life. I would rather exist eternally with physical torture than the despair of having no hope; only regrets.

As for annihilation, this is a statement by Him that cannot be dismissed or reasoned as an analogy:

Matthew 26
"23 Jesus replied, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

If he were to be annihilated, why would that be better than if he had not been born?

True. Yet, what did Christ mean is up for grabs with only one verse!? Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16 has many verses needed.

So in Luke 12:47-48 we see His extended WORD also needed I think. (+ others!)
I personally like David's remark of being 'envious at the foolish',.. 'these are the ungodly who prosper,'.. 'When I thought to know this, it was to painful for me; [Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then I understood their end.' And in verse 2 he states that 'my feet were almost gone..' (with Envy ibid 3) And what was it that he found in the sanctuary that straightened him up?

And here in Luke Christ says:
[47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Surely this finds a different punishment given in hell's final end befor the second death is consumated. Obad. 1:16 Even note Matt. 10:15!

--Elijah

 

[beartheweak]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

When I first began pursuing God, by default I felt as an Arminianist. Then I matured and became a Calvinist when I realized that God speaks as though being sovereign in His Word, and ultimately being responsible for the "final" resting place of man (Heaven or Hell). Then I matured enough again to see how the bible actually has a gray area where Calvinism or Arminianism can be backed up with just as much scripture and just as much reason. Surely there is no contradiction in the infallible word of God? At this time, I came to be a Reformed Theology believer. Yet, there was still a paradox. I was amused and persuaded by the (often) poetical language used to describe how God is The Chooser or Elector of all saved persons, yet we are responsible for all the sin. John MacArthur (I listen to a lot of his sermons online... a lot.) would always say to leave the two (contradictions) in tension and don't try to figure out how it's possible. Yet, I don't think I quite buy that excuse anymore. Simply put, it is not fair and is not just. For instance, I had no choice about being born, let alone be put into sin due to the fall of man. It is not just for God to to put me (or anyone else) in Hell for eternity when we were all was forced to sin. Yes, we were all forced to sin due to Adam and if not Adam, then at least God because the bible admits he has created those whose only purpose was for destruction (Romans 9:18-21 for instance).

I was (am) confused. I think I am in yet again another point of maturing in my understanding. Given the fact that the OT is even less clear about there being an eternal torment and the fact that Jews have never been "evangelizers" I think this adds to the puzzle even further. Additionally, Hell can rarely be claimed to be in the OT when looking at the Hebrew word "Sheol" (usually translated as Hell) and the word used in context. It appears that many OT believers understood that they would all eventually be in Sheol alongside the unbelievers. In other words, Sheol seems to be simply "a place of the dead" (which is probably why the New Testament Greek uses the word "Hades/Haides", place of the dead, for the word Sheol).

Unfortunately I have no clear answers. It seems like a contradiction. It took God 4000+ years to finally clearly reveal to mankind that there is a place where unbelievers go after they die to be eternally tortured?! Why were the Jews not told to spread the horrible news in order to convert unbelievers? Sure enough, there are people that make claim that the words translated into English as "eternal" really mean "age-lasting" or "a period of time with a definite limit". As unlikely as it seems, it seems even more unlikely that God would send unbelievers to Hell and consider himself "just" when He Himself was the one that put them there (according to the Calvinist favoring scriptures). It also seems unjust to place the 40%+ of the population of all the world in eternal torture for simply not being given the chance to even hear the Gospel.

I think what I am led to believe is this. These seem to be my options: 1) God is an unjust, lying deceiver. 2) The God of Christianity is false and there is some other God. 3) There is no God. Finally, there is 4) that God will ultimately bring all to himself through Christ's saving power and the loving grace of God.

The way I understand these options:
1) May it not be
2) There is no more compelling case than the Christian God in my experience.
3) We are not the product of natural causes. This is ridiculous.
4) This is what the Jews have always believed (for the most part). Why would the NT come in and change such a huge doctrine. Jews don't try to convert others to Judaism. Also, go to any atheist website and look at all the arguments they have that show how unjust and unloving the mainstream, Christian God of today is (they make very valid points). Eternal punishment for finite sin?

I guess there are more reasons why I am beginning to favor option 4 and universal salvation the most (yes, including biblical evidence). Not enough time to recollect all my thoughts.

Note, I don't use "mature" in the sense that you are ignorant or immature if you also didn't come to the same conclusions. Rather, it's how I felt about my spiritual growth. So take no offense and don't think that I am implying something about anyone else.

 

[Free]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

I think what I am led to believe is this. These seem to be my options: 1) God is an unjust, lying deceiver. 2) The God of Christianity is false and there is some other God. 3) There is no God. Finally, there is 4) that God will ultimately bring all to himself through Christ's saving power and the loving grace of God.

The way I understand these options:
1) May it not be
2) There is no more compelling case than the Christian God in my experience.
3) We are not the product of natural causes. This is ridiculous.
4) This is what the Jews have always believed (for the most part). Why would the NT come in and change such a huge doctrine. Jews don't try to convert others to Judaism. Also, go to any atheist website and look at all the arguments they have that show how unjust and unloving the mainstream, Christian God of today is (they make very valid points). Eternal punishment for finite sin?

I guess there are more reasons why I am beginning to favor option 4 and universal salvation the most (yes, including biblical evidence). Not enough time to recollect all my thoughts.

Note, I don't use "mature" in the sense that you are ignorant or immature if you also didn't come to the same conclusions. Rather, it's how I felt about my spiritual growth. So take no offense and don't think that I am implying something about anyone else.

There are probably many more options than just those (I can think of two off the top of my head). As for Universal Reconciliation/Salvation, I find it to be not only the most unbiblical position, but it is a topic that is not to be discussed as per the rules of this forum. Just so you are aware.

 

[vocalyocal]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

To me God feels like someone who would not burn someone for eternity. I like the interpretation were Christians believe that hell is a place were you burn up out of existence. From my memory the revelations talks about second death. Even if someone was to guarante me that I am not going to hell for sure I still don't want it to exist. Not for anyone and I literally mean anyone.

But my reasoning could be wrong and somehow eternal burning is justified but I still don't see it happening. Like I said I am not a Christian, not yet anyway but that something that I like about the Bible. That you can interpret it as no eternal torment.

But if Christianity is true faith than you are the ones filled with holly spirit and therefore you might be better at understanding God than me.

Thanks

possibly as humans we are about the only entity that lives in time, we see from scripture that God is supernaturally outside of time, where He is just as much in the future as in the past, we see things as liner, God see's things from a prospective we can't even fathem,

with that being said I believe we are all eternal beings spiritually, when we die our spirits live on, if our spirits live in a place where there is no time, then eternity is possibly just a name for timeless existance

having had an encounter with a real angel, who saved my life from people who were about to kill me, I can only assure you God is real, and the story revealed in the bible will play out just as they depict, its more than likely you were called to believe, because you are here, seek God and you will find Him. He loves you more than you could imagine, meeting an angel was cool, experiencing the love of God and His forgiveness is just completely off the chart

If you ever wondered how people could die horrible deaths, being forced to renounce their faith in Jesus, its the encounter with God's love that can never be removed, people are willing to die for it.........because they know its waiting just on the otherside of their last breath

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

Annihilationism is the term for the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. In fact, the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as are the saved. are

Revelation 20 NASB
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Acts 24
14 "But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets ;
15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
​

These bodies are obviously prepared for an eternal fate.

Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in New Testament, aionion is often used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he said ...

Psalm 51
4Against You, You only, I have sinned And donewhat is evil in Your sight, So that You are justified when You speak And blameless when You judge.
​

David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

 

[JCitoL]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

To me God feels like someone who would not burn someone for eternity. I like the interpretation were Christians believe that hell is a place were you burn up out of existence. From my memory the revelations talks about second death. Even if someone was to guarante me that I am not going to hell for sure I still don't want it to exist. Not for anyone and I literally mean anyone.

But my reasoning could be wrong and somehow eternal burning is justified but I still don't see it happening. Like I said I am not a Christian, not yet anyway but that something that I like about the Bible. That you can interpret it as no eternal torment.

But if Christianity is true faith than you are the ones filled with holly spirit and therefore you might be better at understanding God than me.

Thanks

as some criminals are sent to jail for their crimes according to the law, so it is possible only some unrepentant sinners to be judged in hell for their sins according to the justice, because God would hardly judge any ill-doer more than it wronged/harmed its victim(s) as well as it would be unjust if some human be sent in jail for ten years only because it stole one bun of fifty cents

Blessings

 

[Grappler]

Re: Do you interpret hell as a place of eternal torment or were you burn out of exist

To me God feels like someone who would not burn someone for eternity. I like the interpretation were Christians believe that hell is a place were you burn up out of existence. From my memory the revelations talks about second death. Even if someone was to guarante me that I am not going to hell for sure I still don't want it to exist. Not for anyone and I literally mean anyone.

But my reasoning could be wrong and somehow eternal burning is justified but I still don't see it happening. Like I said I am not a Christian, not yet anyway but that something that I like about the Bible. That you can interpret it as no eternal torment.

But if Christianity is true faith than you are the ones filled with holly spirit and therefore you might be better at understanding God than me.

Thanks

As a child of God i can tell you that one can use scripture that supports both views. This is one of those "gray" areas. From my extensive studies on this subject i have found that scripture leans more towards the "unsaved" as not suffering for eternity. Not to mention logic and rationality. I mean how rational is it for a loving God to tell his children to love their enemies and then He turns around and throws them in a torture chamber with absolutely no mercy or end to their unimaginable agony?lol The traditional doctrine of eternal unimaginable torture was and still is a great form of mind control.