You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Here, have some of my popcorn
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Do you need to believe Jesus is God to be saved?
- Thread starter electedbyHim
- Start date
Here, have some of my popcorn
Forgot that I had an unfinished reply to one member before replying to someone else.You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
Here, have some of my popcorn
cherithbrook
Member
Blessings, Thank you, you're awesome!
:yesTrue points in your posts, very different from most internet blurbs or , well, anything on the internet.
In union with The Heavenly Father Creator, and Jesus,
do you remember (positive expectation ! )
who Simon bar Jona said Jesus is when Jesus asked him ?
Is that up to God, or man to decide/ determine ?
Good. Likewise. Scripture says "Jesus is the Spirit" .
Often missed ....
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
God says He chooses.
God say it is determined by His will and not the will of man John 1:12-13
yada, yada
Hello again TrevorL, and how are you all? Realizing of course what you are saying here, did you ever read this post?
Bible Study - The Lord Jesus Christ Is Both Divine And Fully Human
Sunday 1-21-24 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Shevat 9 5784, 32nd. Winter Day The Hebrews Chapters 1-3 The Superiority Of Christ 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he...
christianforums.net
Greetings again Walter and Debbie,
I am surprised to read the whole thread again, and you have quoted my post, #82. I had participated in this thread extensively, both before and after my post, #82, and possibly my last post is post #178. I was surprised on review how much I have actually stated throughout this thread in support of the concept that there is One God. Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. Did you read any of what I stated in my numerous posts? Have you read my thread "The Yahweh Name"? I am satisfied with what I have already written.
Kind regards
Trevor
My wife is not well and I am her carer in many things. I am feeling a bit better now after my six weeks in hospital in January and February, and at the age of 80 and my hospital condition was a close go as I was resuscitated as well as having other conditions. I had the pleasure of being shunted between three hospitals in my early treatment. It taught me that my time now is precious and I should not chase the wind. I have an urgent project as the Librarian for a close friend, and he was disappointed that it was not ready today, and he had also promised a copy of these five articles on The Atonement to someone in another region. It should take two or three more days of most of my spare time.
I am surprised to read the whole thread again, and you have quoted my post, #82. I had participated in this thread extensively, both before and after my post, #82, and possibly my last post is post #178. I was surprised on review how much I have actually stated throughout this thread in support of the concept that there is One God. Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. Did you read any of what I stated in my numerous posts? Have you read my thread "The Yahweh Name"? I am satisfied with what I have already written.
I have now, and although it adds a few verses that do not seem to be fully covered in this thread, it actually does not in any way answer what I have stated throughout this thread. They are not real definitive verses that override everything else, even if they are your favourite, obscure Trinitarian verses.
Kind regards
Trevor
Sunday 4-7-24 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Adar II Day 27 5784 20th. Day of Spring
Good Morning Trevor, How are you all?
Love, Walter And Debbie
Good Morning Trevor, How are you all?
Hi TrevorL, We will be in prayer for you all, please keep us updated, ok?
Yes Sir I understand what you are saying, We are still reading your views.
We are not Trinitarians, just Christians, Believers with Faith in Yeshua Ha Mashiach
Bible Study - Jesus Christ The Son Of God Both God And Man/Scripture In The Book Of Hebrews
Tuesday 9-12-23 3rd. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Elul 26 5783, 84th. Summer Day 1st. Jesus said: That GOD Is A Spirit....., Paul also said: To wit, that God was in Christ....., and, Jesus is not only the Son of GOD but He is also what He says He is throughout the scriptures, also Paul said many...
christianforums.net
Love, Walter And Debbie
Last edited:
Greetings again Walter and Debbie,
Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV): 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Kind regards
Trevor
Perhaps so, but I am a bit confused as to your beliefs concerning Jesus. For my part, I believe that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father, and that Jesus is the Son of God, but here in your new article on Hebrews chapter 2 which seems to be only a repeat of part of your similar previous article on Hebrews chapters 1-3 you claim Jesus is also "God". Do you have two "Gods"? Who is the "God" of Hebrews 1:1?
Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV): 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Kind regards
Trevor
Greetings again Walter and Debbie,
Kind regards
Trevor
Psalm 8 is one of my favourite Psalms and I suggest that it is speaking about the New Creation. Now Jesus was created a human, MADE a little lower than the Angels. In what sense is Jesus superior because of his humanity. Please note he was made lower than the Angels.
Kind regards
Trevor
If believing Jesus is God to be saved is a requirement then apparently no one in the Bible was saved. Jesus didn't say he's God and no one else said such. No one said to believe that. It isn't actually there anywhere as a requirement.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
“Who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.” Note that John mentions the full name of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to remind his readers of his human and divine nature. These deceivers continue to proclaim their opposition to the teaching that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Already in his first epistle, John warns the readers to test the spirits: “Every spirit [teaching] that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God” (4:2–3). Even though there is similarity between this passage and that of 2 John 7, the difference in the verb forms has come (1 John 4:2) and as coming (2 John 7) is obvious. The one verb is in the past tense, the other in the present. Is there a difference in meaning? Hardly. The past tense describes Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the present tense is a descriptive term about Christ. In the New Testament, the expression the one who is coming is a messianic designation (e.g., Matt. 11:2; John 1:15, 27; 12:13; Rev. 1:4). Thus, John applies the present tense of the participle coming to Jesus Christ as a testimony to anyone who denies this truth.
c. “Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.” John is not afraid to give the false teacher names. Here he calls him not only the deceiver, but also the antichrist—that is, the person who comes in the place of Christ (compare 1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3). At the beginning of this verse (v. 7), John refers to many deceivers; therefore we should understand the appellation the antichrist as a collective name.[1]
[1] Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of James and the Epistles of John, vol. 14, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 380.
μὴ ὁμολογοῦντες—this present active participle discloses the continued refusal by the deceivers to acknowledge the humanity of Jesus Christ.[1]
Everywhere the true gospel goes, Satan’s emissaries are sure to follow. They preach a false, satanic gospel and thereby pervert the true gospel message and pollute the church. Paul warned the Galatians against them in the strongest possible terms:
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! (Gal. 1:6–9)
John defined the particular false teachers in his sights as those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. There are many ways to undermine the gospel, such as by denying the deity of Jesus Christ, or that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. But these heretics denied the true humanity of Jesus Christ, refusing to acknowledge that He was God who had become fully human. They were forerunners of the dangerous second-century heresy known as Gnosticism, which posed one of the gravest threats to the early church. (For further information on the heresy against which John wrote, see the Introduction to 1 John in this volume.)
John countered the false teachers’ diverse attacks on the person of Jesus Christ by stressing the truth about Him in his epistles. In 1 John 1:3 he identified Jesus Christ as God the Son (cf. 3:23; 2 John 3); in 2:1 he presented Him as the believers’ Advocate with the Father, whose death propitiated God’s wrath against their sin (v. 2; cf. 1:7; 4:9–10); in 2:22–23 he declared that those who deny that Jesus is the Christ do not know God; in 3:8 he pointed out that Jesus has destroyed the works of Satan; in 4:14 he affirmed that the Father sent the Son into the world as Savior, and reiterated in verse 15 that only those who confess Jesus as the Son of God know the Father (cf. 2 John 9); and in 5:9–13 John wrote that only those who believe the divine revelation about Jesus Christ have eternal life.
To deny the biblical truth that in Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, God became fully human is to propagate demon doctrine. Anyone who does so is a deceiver and an antichrist (cf. 1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3). To teach, as these heretics did, that Jesus’ humanity was merely an illusion is to strike a blow at the heart of the gospel. If Jesus were not the God-man, fully human as well as fully divine, He could not have died as the substitute for men.[1]
[1] John MacArthur, 1, 2, 3 John, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2007), 232–233.
“Who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh.” Note that John mentions the full name of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to remind his readers of his human and divine nature. These deceivers continue to proclaim their opposition to the teaching that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Already in his first epistle, John warns the readers to test the spirits: “Every spirit [teaching] that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God” (4:2–3). Even though there is similarity between this passage and that of 2 John 7, the difference in the verb forms has come (1 John 4:2) and as coming (2 John 7) is obvious. The one verb is in the past tense, the other in the present. Is there a difference in meaning? Hardly. The past tense describes Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the present tense is a descriptive term about Christ. In the New Testament, the expression the one who is coming is a messianic designation (e.g., Matt. 11:2; John 1:15, 27; 12:13; Rev. 1:4). Thus, John applies the present tense of the participle coming to Jesus Christ as a testimony to anyone who denies this truth.
c. “Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.” John is not afraid to give the false teacher names. Here he calls him not only the deceiver, but also the antichrist—that is, the person who comes in the place of Christ (compare 1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3). At the beginning of this verse (v. 7), John refers to many deceivers; therefore we should understand the appellation the antichrist as a collective name.[1]
[1] Simon J. Kistemaker and William Hendriksen, Exposition of James and the Epistles of John, vol. 14, New Testament Commentary (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1953–2001), 380.
μὴ ὁμολογοῦντες—this present active participle discloses the continued refusal by the deceivers to acknowledge the humanity of Jesus Christ.[1]
Everywhere the true gospel goes, Satan’s emissaries are sure to follow. They preach a false, satanic gospel and thereby pervert the true gospel message and pollute the church. Paul warned the Galatians against them in the strongest possible terms:
I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! (Gal. 1:6–9)
John defined the particular false teachers in his sights as those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. There are many ways to undermine the gospel, such as by denying the deity of Jesus Christ, or that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone. But these heretics denied the true humanity of Jesus Christ, refusing to acknowledge that He was God who had become fully human. They were forerunners of the dangerous second-century heresy known as Gnosticism, which posed one of the gravest threats to the early church. (For further information on the heresy against which John wrote, see the Introduction to 1 John in this volume.)
John countered the false teachers’ diverse attacks on the person of Jesus Christ by stressing the truth about Him in his epistles. In 1 John 1:3 he identified Jesus Christ as God the Son (cf. 3:23; 2 John 3); in 2:1 he presented Him as the believers’ Advocate with the Father, whose death propitiated God’s wrath against their sin (v. 2; cf. 1:7; 4:9–10); in 2:22–23 he declared that those who deny that Jesus is the Christ do not know God; in 3:8 he pointed out that Jesus has destroyed the works of Satan; in 4:14 he affirmed that the Father sent the Son into the world as Savior, and reiterated in verse 15 that only those who confess Jesus as the Son of God know the Father (cf. 2 John 9); and in 5:9–13 John wrote that only those who believe the divine revelation about Jesus Christ have eternal life.
To deny the biblical truth that in Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah, God became fully human is to propagate demon doctrine. Anyone who does so is a deceiver and an antichrist (cf. 1 John 2:18, 22; 4:3). To teach, as these heretics did, that Jesus’ humanity was merely an illusion is to strike a blow at the heart of the gospel. If Jesus were not the God-man, fully human as well as fully divine, He could not have died as the substitute for men.[1]
[1] John MacArthur, 1, 2, 3 John, MacArthur New Testament Commentary (Chicago, IL: Moody Publishers, 2007), 232–233.
Not even Jesus said that he is God come in the flesh. As a result of the backwards doctrine you posted here, it would have Jesus as being anti-Christ. When it says Jesus came in the flesh it refers to Jesus being a human.
2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting,
2Jn 1:11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.
The teaching you posted isn't in 2 John 1 or any other verse for that matter. You're trying to make a leap from "Jesus came in the flesh" to "God came in the flesh" where none is stated in the Bible.
No, I do not have two Gods, GOD Is A Spirit.
Greetings again Walter (and Debbie), or Debbie (and Walter), as it is not clear who is the "I" in the following:
Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV):.............................................God,
who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers .............................Hath in these last days spoken unto us
by the prophets,....................................................................by his Son
With this arrangement the elements that are contrasted can be easily seen. The One God, Yahweh, God the Father in times past spoke to the fathers, but now the same One God, Yahweh, God the Father has spoken not only to Paul's contemporaries, but also to US by means of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. So, I would like your explanation of how your comment "GOD Is A Spirit" in any way helps our understanding here, as I read Hebrews 1:1-2 to mention two distinct Beings, and you claim that Jesus is God, hence two Gods.
The other important aspect of splitting these verses to show the contrasts, is that there is no statement given in contrast to "at sundry times and in divers manners", and yet this is not an oversight but a deliberate introduction to what Paul expounds in the whole of the Epistle, that God's revelation is COMPLETE and FULL and COMPREHENSIVE in and through His Son, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, hence this also proves two distinct Beings.
In your original referral, you gave Hebrews chapters 1-3 under the following title
Kind regards
Trevor
I am at a complete loss as to what that really means in the context of Hebrews 1:1-2 which I quoted. In reality I like the re-arrangement of these verses to show the contrast
Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV):.............................................God,
who at sundry times and in divers manners
spake in time past unto the fathers .............................Hath in these last days spoken unto us
by the prophets,....................................................................by his Son
With this arrangement the elements that are contrasted can be easily seen. The One God, Yahweh, God the Father in times past spoke to the fathers, but now the same One God, Yahweh, God the Father has spoken not only to Paul's contemporaries, but also to US by means of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God. So, I would like your explanation of how your comment "GOD Is A Spirit" in any way helps our understanding here, as I read Hebrews 1:1-2 to mention two distinct Beings, and you claim that Jesus is God, hence two Gods.
The other important aspect of splitting these verses to show the contrasts, is that there is no statement given in contrast to "at sundry times and in divers manners", and yet this is not an oversight but a deliberate introduction to what Paul expounds in the whole of the Epistle, that God's revelation is COMPLETE and FULL and COMPREHENSIVE in and through His Son, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, hence this also proves two distinct Beings.
In your original referral, you gave Hebrews chapters 1-3 under the following title
The Lord Jesus Christ Is Both Divine And Fully Human
This was mainly quoting portions of Hebrews ch. 1-3 and I admit that there are a few "difficult" passages. But then when I questioned this to some extent you then gave another article labelledJesus Christ The Son Of God Both God And Man/Scripture In The Book Of Hebrews
which was a quotation of Hebrews 2, and thus a repeat of the central part of the first article. I am at a complete loss as to your endorsement of my response because I find absolutely NO PROOF in Hebrews 2 that Jesus is God. Rather it teaches that Jesus was born a human, lower than the Angels, and is now exalted after his death and resurrection.Kind regards
Trevor
Last edited: