Do you need to believe Jesus is God to be saved?

  • CFN has a new look, using the Eagle as our theme

    "I bore you on eagle's wings, and brought you to Myself" (Exodus 19:4)

    More new themes will be coming in the future!

  • Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Join For His Glory for a discussion on how

    https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/

  • Read the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

    Read through this brief blog, and receive eternal salvation as the free gift of God

    /blog/the-gospel

  • CFN welcomes a new contributing member!

    Please welcome Beetow to our Christian community.

    Blessings in Christ, and we pray you enjoy being a member here

  • Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need

    https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/

  • Have questions about the Christian faith?

    Come ask us what's on your mind in Questions and Answers

    https://christianforums.net/forums/questions-and-answers/

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

To be saved you have to believe in the divinity of Yeshua.
Of course I am going to word a little differently….
Yeshua is a God.
Yeshua is the real Son of Yahweh.
Yeshua is the prophesied Messiah in the Devine.
Yeshua is our Savior and there is no salvation through any other God or religion.

Yeshua did not come right out and say He was God. Part of the confusion is that a lot Christians believe the one God formula for the Trinity that confuses the meaning of a good part of the scriptures …..and so a lot of Christians think that all their names are God. God is not a name or a person, God is a divine position.

Part of this confusion was because they stopped using God’s name in the Old Testament, referring to Him only as God or Lord. They remove the name(s) for Yahweh around 6,800 times and replaced them with the words God or Lord.

God Yahweh Almighty has a Unique and Supreme distinction and Yeshua always recognized His Supreme position and so did the Apostles sometimes referring to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord. At one point Yeshua recognized His Father as His God.

A hierarchy exist but Yahweh and Yeshua and Holy Spirit are all Gods.
 
To be saved you have to believe in the divinity of Yeshua.
Of course I am going to word a little differently….
Yeshua is a God.
Yeshua is the real Son of Yahweh.
Yeshua is the prophesied Messiah in the Devine.
Yeshua is our Savior and there is no salvation through any other God or religion.

Yeshua did not come right out and say He was God. Part of the confusion is that a lot Christians believe the one God formula for the Trinity that confuses the meaning of a good part of the scriptures …..and so a lot of Christians think that all their names are God. God is not a name or a person, God is a divine position.

Part of this confusion was because they stopped using God’s name in the Old Testament, referring to Him only as God or Lord. They remove the name(s) for Yahweh around 6,800 times and replaced them with the words God or Lord.
God Yahweh Almighty has a Unique and Supreme distinction and Yeshua always recognized His Supreme position and so did the Apostles sometimes referring to Yahweh as God and Yeshua as Lord. At one point Yeshua recognized His Father as His God.

A hierarchy exist but Yahweh and Yeshua and Holy Spirit are all Gods.
Hello Grailhunter, We believe now in what Yeshua has said in John 4:24 That GOD Is A Spirit ......

Love, Walter And Debbie
 
Hello Grailhunter, We believe now in what Yeshua has said in John 4:24 That GOD Is A Spirit ......

Love, Walter And Debbie

God is love....1st John 4:8
What is Spirit? Well I agree in that whatever term you use He is still indefinable and uncomprehendable. Father and Son and Person and God and Spirit….nature and composition …. vastness …. God everywhere and everything…It gets kinda Cosmic…so as however we refer to Him it is a loose designation. But Spirit is as good as any.
 
God is love....1st John 4:8
What is Spirit? Well I agree in that whatever term you use He is still indefinable and uncomprehendable. Father and Son and Person and God and Spirit….nature and composition …. vastness …. God everywhere and everything…It gets kinda Cosmic…so as however we refer to Him it is a loose designation. But Spirit is as good as any.
God is everything?

Cosmic?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hawkman
God is love....1st John 4:8
What is Spirit? Well I agree in that whatever term you use He is still indefinable and uncomprehendable. Father and Son and Person and God and Spirit….nature and composition …. vastness …. God everywhere and everything…It gets kinda Cosmic…so as however we refer to Him it is a loose designation. But Spirit is as good as any.
Sir, What do you mean?
 
Many claim that they are saved but do not believe that the Lord is God come in the flesh.

I have always been taught this in my life.

John 8:24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

The above verse plainly says that we need to believe that Christ is God in the flesh.

Those that do not believe this vers say that Christ did not mean "I am" to be Yahweh—the Lord.

What do others believe, is this doctrine needed for salvation or not?



am (1510)(eimi) Eimí is the usual verb of existence, meaning to be or to have existence. For example, in Jn 1:1 eimi is used 3 times all in the imperfect tense (Gk = "en") to describe the Word's (Jesus') continual existence, continual presence with His Father and continual existence as God.

Ego eimi - See also Jehovah - I Am and the Tetragrammaton. Jesus Himself used ego eimi to express His eternal self-existence (without beginning, without end) in Jn 8:58 = "“Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” He was saying He was Yahweh (I Am the One Who Is). Jesus is clearly claiming that He is God! The Jehovah's Witness New World Translation (2013) translates Jn 8:58 incorrectly as "I have been" which Greek scholars say is absolutely incorrect! Compare other "I Am" statements by Jesus = Jn 4:26, 8:24, 28, 13:19, 18:5, 6 ["they drew back and fell to the ground!" = His Name "I Am" literally knocked an entire band of from 300-600 soldiers backward abruptly and hard onto the ground! His Name is indeed powerful!], Jn 18:8. see similar use in Ex 3:14 above). In Ge 17:1 God addresses Abram declaring "I am (ego eimi) God" (cp similar uses in Ge 26:24, 31:13, 46:3, Ex 3:6, 7:5, 8:18, 14:4, 18, 20:2, 29:46, etc). Note that there are about 174 uses of "ego eimi" in the Septuagint and 48 uses in the NT, but not all uses refer to God (e.g., Mt 14:27). There are 24 uses of ego eimi in John's Gospel and most do refer to the Messiah. E.g., in the first occurrence, Jesus tells the Samaritan woman "I Am" (ego eimi) (Jn 4:26) when she made a reference to the Messiah (Jn 4:25). In fact ego eimi introduces His great "I am" statements in John = "I am"..."the bread of life" (Jn 6:35, 41, 48, 51), "the Light of the world," (Jn 8:12), "the door" (Jn 10:7, 9), "the good shepherd" (Jn 10:11, 14), "the resurrection and the life," (Jn 11:25), "the Way and the Truth and the Life" (Jn 14:6); "the true Vine" (Jn 15:1, 5). At Paul's conversion on the Damascus Road Jesus told him "I am (ego eimi) Jesus Whom you are persecuting." (Acts 9:5). In the final use of ego eimi in Scripture Jesus affirms "I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." (Rev 22:16) -

It is notable that Jehovah had used "I Am" in the Old Testament in Isaiah 43:10 where He declared “that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He (ego eimi).’ In fact as shown above, ego eimi is used repeatedly in Isaiah 41-48, in passages that would have been very familiar to these Pharisees who prided themselves on their knowledge of the Old Testament. It is difficult to imagine that they did not understand that Jesus was clearly stating that He was the eternal God repeatedly described by their own prophet Isaiah!

Hendriksen on I am... - The meaning is: that I am all that I claim to be; the One sent by the Father, the One who is from above, the Son of man, the only-begotten Son of God, equal with God, the One Who has life in himself, the very essence of the scriptures, the bread of life, the light of the world, etc. The fact that rejection of the Son—failure to believe in him and to obey him—results in everlasting death is expressed not only here in Jn 8:24 but also in Jn 3:36 (see on that verse), which may be viewed as an explanation of Jn 8:24. (BORROW Exposition of the Gospel according to John - Chapters 7-21)

John MacArthur on I Am - Jesus was applying to Himself the tetragrammaton (YHWH, often transliterated as Yahweh)—the name of God that was so sacred that the Jews refused to pronounce it. Unlike many modern cult groups (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses), the Jews of Jesus’ day understood perfectly that He was claiming to be God. In fact, they were so shocked by His use of that name, in reference to Himself (cf. vv. 28, 58), that they attempted to stone Him for blasphemy (v. 59). (ED: See also Jehovah - I Am and the Tetragrammaton).... To be a Christian one must believe the full biblical revelation about Jesus: that He is the eternal second person of the Trinity, that He entered space and time as God incarnate, that He was born of a virgin, that He lived a sinless life, that His death on the cross is the only sufficient, substitutionary sacrifice for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him, that He rose from the dead and ascended to the Father in heaven, that He now intercedes for His own redeemed people, and that He will one day return in glory. To reject those truths about Him is to “be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ” (2 Cor. 11:3), to worship “another Jesus” (v. 4), to be cursed by God (Gal. 1:8–9), and ultimately to hear the Lord say, “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness” (Matt. 7:23).

Notice the Jews' question in (Jn 8:25, cp Jn 10:24 and His answer in Jn 10:30!) even though He clearly has just told them He is "I AM"! Jesus emphasized that the fatal, unforgivable, and eternal sin is failure to believe in Him as Messiah and Son of God. All other sins can be forgiven if this one is repented of.

I AM is the self-designation for God in many Scriptures .(Ex 3:14 Dt 32:39; Isa 41:4, 43:10, 11, 13, 25; 44:6 46:4; 48:12; etc.), to render Hebrew “I (AM) He.” Jesus' use of this phrase is clearly a claim to Deity as the reaction to His claim clearly demonstrates in (Jn 8:58,59). The incorrect rendering of the Jehovah's Witnesses in their NWT only serves to illustrate the difficulty of evading the meaning of the phrase and the context.

Preceptaustin.com

The scripture plainly states that were are to confess Jesus as LORD, YHWH the LORD God, to be saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”
Romans 10:9-13

  • if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
  • For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

Paul clearly connects the passage from Joel with Jesus; Jesus is the name of YHWH.



Clearly the name of YHWH is Jesus; the only name under heaven by which men can be saved.





JLB
 
Because baptism was the public confession of faith, Christ's command all be baptized in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit requires faith in Jesus as God the Son, Second Person of the Holy Trinity:

17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28:17-20 NKJ)

"Some doubted". What did they doubt, that Jesus is the Messiah or He is the only begotten Son of God, "God the Son" of "God the Father". Most likely, "some doubted" His claim to Deity.

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:10-11 NKJ)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Fastfredy0
Greetings JLB and Alfred Persson,
Clearly the name of YHWH is Jesus; the only name under heaven by which men can be saved.
No, YHWH is the Name of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father Exodus 3:14-15. Jesus is the Son of God.
Christ's command all be baptized in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit requires faith in Jesus as God the Son, Second Person of the Holy Trinity
No, YHWH is the one God, God the Father's Name. Jesus bears this Name, reveals this Name and fulfills this Name.

Matthew 6:9 (KJV): After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

John 17:6 (KJV): I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again Walter and Debbie,

My wife is not well and I am her carer in many things. I am feeling a bit better now after my six weeks in hospital in January and February, and at the age of 80 and my hospital condition was a close go as I was resuscitated as well as having other conditions. I had the pleasure of being shunted between three hospitals in my early treatment. It taught me that my time now is precious and I should not chase the wind. I have an urgent project as the Librarian for a close friend, and he was disappointed that it was not ready today, and he had also promised a copy of these five articles on The Atonement to someone in another region. It should take two or three more days of most of my spare time.

I am surprised to read the whole thread again, and you have quoted my post, #82. I had participated in this thread extensively, both before and after my post, #82, and possibly my last post is post #178. I was surprised on review how much I have actually stated throughout this thread in support of the concept that there is One God. Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus is a human, now exalted to sit at the right hand of God, the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. Did you read any of what I stated in my numerous posts? Have you read my thread "The Yahweh Name"? I am satisfied with what I have already written.

I have now, and although it adds a few verses that do not seem to be fully covered in this thread, it actually does not in any way answer what I have stated throughout this thread. They are not real definitive verses that override everything else, even if they are your favourite, obscure Trinitarian verses.

Kind regards
Trevor
Hi TrevorL
I'm so sorry to hear of your health problem.
We surely must believe that our time here is precious.

Although I'm a believer that Jesus is God because those that the Apostles taught believed so, I also believe that only God has the authority and power to say who is saved and who is not. Not any of us.

God bless you.
 
Many who promote false teachings are not regenrated.

People in this very thread, who do not believe that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh, believe that is a false doctrine.

Just like the Trinity.

Fact is no one human is 100% correct on their doctrine.

We are all sinful humans and pride blinds.
But this goes for all of us.
I like to say that doctrine does not save us but Jesus does,,,,by His atoning, expiating death He gives to all of humanity the gift of salvation. Everyone who is saved is so due to His death and resurrection. He died not only for us but for the whole world.

I'm not talking about universalism.
 
Greetings again Godsgrace,
I'm so sorry to hear of your health problem. We surely must believe that our time here is precious.
I came home from hospital on my 80th birthday, and I was very conscious of Psalm 90:10 and consider that I was given a new lease of life, even if only temporary for a short time. I have a mate who has almost completely lost his memory, another mate who has had a fall and hit his head recently, and my 83 y.o. sister had a stroke 3 years ago and cannot talk and we communicate partially only via zoom.

I have had no set backs, and passed a heart stress test but shrunk away from entering hospital again and having my heart veins explored. We had the benefit of three of our children living in our region. The daughter did the shopping, the eldest son did the lawns and the youngest did some house work and meal preparation. I have now taken over these duties except for some extensive work on my two acre hobby farm which I had neglected in the last few years.
Although I'm a believer that Jesus is God because those that the Apostles taught believed so, I also believe that only God has the authority and power to say who is saved and who is not. Not any of us.
Not sure that I want to get more involved in this thread or the other thread which seems to be heating up. I am waiting for a response there. I thought that it could be beneficial to answer every aspect of this thread's OPs and possibly some aspects of the article that you referenced, but lacking real enthusiasm. I like to answer some of what I consider interesting passages. I think it is an important subject, but there seems to be little progress.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace
Greetings again Godsgrace,

I came home from hospital on my 80th birthday, and I was very conscious of Psalm 90:10 and consider that I was given a new lease of life, even if only temporary for a short time. I have a mate who has almost completely lost his memory, another mate who has had a fall and hit his head recently, and my 83 y.o. sister had a stroke 3 years ago and cannot talk and we communicate partially only via zoom.

I have had no set backs, and passed a heart stress test but shrunk away from entering hospital again and having my heart veins explored. We had the benefit of three of our children living in our region. The daughter did the shopping, the eldest son did the lawns and the youngest did some house work and meal preparation. I have now taken over these duties except for some extensive work on my two acre hobby farm which I had neglected in the last few years.

Not sure that I want to get more involved in this thread or the other thread which seems to be heating up. I am waiting for a response there. I thought that it could be beneficial to answer every aspect of this thread's OPs and possibly some aspects of the article that you referenced, but lacking real enthusiasm. I like to answer some of what I consider interesting passages. I think it is an important subject, but there seems to be little progress.

Kind regards
Trevor
Great to hear that you have the help you need.

We have a loving and merciful God and He will care eternally for those that love Him and wish to be with Him forever.
🙏
 
No, YHWH is the Name of the One God, Yahweh, God the Father Exodus 3:14-15. Jesus is the Son of God.

Yes, Jesus is the Son of God.

Exodus 3 is a show case of the Son of God, as Jesus plainly stated that He Himself is the I AM, who is mentioned in Exodus 3:14

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:57-59

When Jesus made this statement the Jews immediately picked up stones to execute Him for blasphemy; for claiming the title I AM.

I AM
was a direct reference to YHWH.


Let’s look at Exodus 3 for some context —



Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.”
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God… And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’
Exodus 3:1-6,14-15

  • Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

Clearly YHWH the LORD reveals the name I AM to Moses.

However, let’s take a closer look at who is speaking.


  • And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.

The Angel of the LORD appeared to and is speaking to Moses, however…

Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.” Exodus 3:3-4


Now we see the Holy Spirit through Moses, is developing the idea of who the Angel of the LORD is —

  • So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush


Here we see that the Angel of the LORD is the LORD (YHWH) as well as God.


Furthermore, we see Moses make this undeniable statement —

  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


Based on these scriptures, would you say Moses was looking at God the Father or God the Son?
 
  • Like
Reactions: WalterandDebbie
, YHWH is the one God, God the Father's Name. Jesus bears this Name, reveals this Name and fulfills this Name.

Matthew 6:9 (KJV): After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

John 17:6 (KJV): I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Kind regards
Trevor
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. (Matt. 28:19-20 NKJ)


Christ commanded we baptize all the nations "in the Name" singular, not "names" plural, of God.

Only one God is named Yahweh yet Three Persons are named. Therefore, the Name of Yahweh refers to the Father Son and Holy Spirit equally, all Three are "in the Name" Yahweh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GodsGrace
Greetings again JLB and Alfred Persson,
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:57-59
When Jesus made this statement the Jews immediately picked up stones to execute Him for blasphemy; for claiming the title I AM.
I AM
was a direct reference to YHWH.
I do not accept that Jesus is alluding directly to Exodus 3:14. I consider that Jesus is speaking on the theme of whether or not Jesus is the Messiah, and this expression is also found in the immediate context and is translated in the KJV "I am he":
John 8:24–28 (KJV): 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
Based on these scriptures, would you say Moses was looking at God the Father or God the Son?
And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.
I understand that this should be translated as "I will be" as per Tyndale, RV and RSV margins. The Name is associated with the anticipated deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and their inheritance of the Land. Moses was looking at the Angel of Yahweh who represented Yahweh and spoke on His behalf.
Only one God is named Yahweh yet Three Persons are named. Therefore, the Name of Yahweh refers to the Father Son and Holy Spirit equally, all Three are "in the Name" Yahweh.
Yes, One Name Yahweh and this is the One Name given by and describes the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. This Name also speaks of God's purpose of salvation through Jesus, the Saviour, the Son of God, and the power of God, the Holy Spirit was instrumental in the birth and ministry of Jesus. The faithful are also included within the Yahweh Name.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
I do not accept that Jesus is alluding directly to Exodus 3:14.


Do you believe the Angel of the LORD refers to the Father or the Son?


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Exodus 3:1-2
 
Greetings again JLB and Alfred Persson,

I do not accept that Jesus is alluding directly to Exodus 3:14. I consider that Jesus is speaking on the theme of whether or not Jesus is the Messiah, and this expression is also found in the immediate context and is translated in the KJV "I am he":
John 8:24–28 (KJV): 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


I understand that this should be translated as "I will be" as per Tyndale, RV and RSV margins. The Name is associated with the anticipated deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and their inheritance of the Land. Moses was looking at the Angel of Yahweh who represented Yahweh and spoke on His behalf.

Yes, One Name Yahweh and this is the One Name given by and describes the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. This Name also speaks of God's purpose of salvation through Jesus, the Saviour, the Son of God, and the power of God, the Holy Spirit was instrumental in the birth and ministry of Jesus. The faithful are also included within the Yahweh Name.

Kind regards
Trevor
Don't group me with others. I don't get notified when you respond to me after another poster.

You missed the logic. Baptized in the name of God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.

This springs off those times Jesus is called Yahweh by the apostles:

38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?"
39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:
40 "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, Lest they should see with their eyes, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them."
41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him. (Jn. 12:38-41 NKJ)

Who, believed what we have heard? And, the arm of Yahweh, to whom was it revealed?

(Isa. 53:1 ROT)

Then said I--Woe to me!--for I am undone, Because, a man of unclean lips, am, I, And, in the midst of a people of unclean lips, do, I, dwell,--For, the King, Yahweh of hosts, have mine eyes seen! (Isa. 6:5 ROT)

It is possible to translate "LORD" in Philippians 2:11 as "Yahweh" because its a quote from Isaiah 45:23 where Yahweh is speaking:

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Yahweh [God the Son] to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:10-11)


"Yahweh" is the answer to the riddle God asks:

Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know? (Prov. 30:4 NKJ)

[Jesus] Yahweh ascends and descends from heaven, established the ends of the earth (John 1:1-3; 3:13; "The Image of God"in nature and deeds Col. 1:15-17)----God's Name is "Yahweh" therefore "Yahweh" must be the name of His Son ALSO:

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended "-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
(Eph. 4:8-10 NKJ)
 
Last edited:
Greetings again JLB and Alfred Persson,

I do not accept that Jesus is alluding directly to Exodus 3:14. I consider that Jesus is speaking on the theme of whether or not Jesus is the Messiah, and this expression is also found in the immediate context and is translated in the KJV "I am he":
John 8:24–28 (KJV): 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. 27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. 28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.


I understand that this should be translated as "I will be" as per Tyndale, RV and RSV margins. The Name is associated with the anticipated deliverance of Israel out of Egypt and their inheritance of the Land. Moses was looking at the Angel of Yahweh who represented Yahweh and spoke on His behalf.

Yes, One Name Yahweh and this is the One Name given by and describes the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. This Name also speaks of God's purpose of salvation through Jesus, the Saviour, the Son of God, and the power of God, the Holy Spirit was instrumental in the birth and ministry of Jesus. The faithful are also included within the Yahweh Name.

Kind regards
Trevor
Yes, Jesus is the Son of God.

Exodus 3 is a show case of the Son of God, as Jesus plainly stated that He Himself is the I AM, who is mentioned in Exodus 3:14

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:57-59

When Jesus made this statement the Jews immediately picked up stones to execute Him for blasphemy; for claiming the title I AM.

I AM
was a direct reference to YHWH.


Let’s look at Exodus 3 for some context —



Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.”
Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God… And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’
Exodus 3:1-6,14-15

  • Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

Clearly YHWH the LORD reveals the name I AM to Moses.

However, let’s take a closer look at who is speaking.


  • And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed.

The Angel of the LORD appeared to and is speaking to Moses, however…

Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.” Exodus 3:3-4


Now we see the Holy Spirit through Moses, is developing the idea of who the Angel of the LORD is —

  • So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush


Here we see that the Angel of the LORD is the LORD (YHWH) as well as God.


Furthermore, we see Moses make this undeniable statement —

  • And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.


Based on these scriptures, would you say Moses was looking at God the Father or God the Son?
Hello, And how are you all? Interesting Thread,

Who Was "the Angel of the Lord"?

Jesus showed He is that true light, saying, also: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I AM [remember, as the Son of God, He became also the "I AM" -- part of the Godhead -- who spoke to Moses in the burning bush, saying His name was "I AM THAT I AM" -- see Exodus 3:14] the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star" (Rev.22:16). Jesus Christ -- Yeshua the Anointed One -- also used this expression, "I AM," in a fascinating context in John 8, where He said to the Rabbis who were questioning Him: "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. . . . Yet ye have not known him, but I know him. . . . Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:42, 55-58). The One that appeared to Moses in the burning bush, many have thought, was God the Father. But this simply cannot be so. In fact, we read in Exodus, "And the ANGEL [Hebrew melek meaning "messenger"] of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of the bush" (Exo.3:2). This was not the Father Himself, but His agent -- His "messenger." Yet it was far more than just any angelic messenger. This messenger was the Word -- the Logos -- the second member of the Elohim Godhead! For He said to Moses, later, when asked His name: "And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you" (Exo.3:14).

Notice! This "angel of the LORD" went on to say to Moses, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD [the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, or YHVH -- Yah, Yahu, or Yahveh, and perhaps other forms, meaning the Eternal, Self-Existent one, the One who is, was, and shall always be, as well as the One who Causes to be or not to be, the Creator of all there is] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is MY MEMORIAL unto all generations" (Exo.3:15). 238 This One who spoke to Moses was not God the Father, as many have assumed. This had to be the second member of the Godhead -- the Logos -- who was created by the Father, and became His very own Son, through whom He created the Universe to follow. How do we know this? Simple: This great Being later spoke the Ten Commandments, and all Israel heard Him (Exo.20:1-17).

"And God spake all these words, saying . . ." (v.1). The One who would speak would naturally be the Word, the Spokesman, the Utterer, the Speaker -- The Logos spoke on behalf of the Father. The people all heard Him speak the Ten Commandments, but were afraid, and said to Moses, "Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die" (Exo.20:18-19). God Himself, the Logos, said to Moses, "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven" (Exo.20:22). From this point on, God spoke with Moses, and Moses communicated His message to the people.

By The Deceased William F. Dankenbring Title: The Awesome Mystery of GOD The Father, the Logos, the Messiah, the Mystery of Christ

Sub-Title: Chapter 15 Who Is the"ANGEL of the LORD"and the MESSIAH?

Love, Walter And Debbie
 
Last edited:
Hello, And how are you all? Interesting Thread,

Who Was "the Angel of the Lord"?

Jesus showed He is that true light, saying, also: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I AM [remember, as the Son of God, He became also the "I AM" -- part of the Godhead -- who spoke to Moses in the burning bush, saying His name was "I AM THAT I AM" -- see Exodus 3:14] the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star" (Rev.22:16). Jesus Christ -- Yeshua the Anointed One -- also used this expression, "I AM," in a fascinating context in John 8, where He said to the Rabbis who were questioning Him: "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. . . . Yet ye have not known him, but I know him. . . . Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:42, 55-58). The One that appeared to Moses in the burning bush, many have thought, was God the Father. But this simply cannot be so. In fact, we read in Exodus, "And the ANGEL [Hebrew melek meaning "messenger"] of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of the bush" (Exo.3:2). This was not the Father Himself, but His agent -- His "messenger." Yet it was far more than just any angelic messenger. This messenger was the Word -- the Logos -- the second member of the Elohim Godhead! For He said to Moses, later, when asked His name: "And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you" (Exo.3:14).

Notice! This "angel of the LORD" went on to say to Moses, "And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD [the Hebrew Tetragrammaton, or YHVH -- Yah, Yahu, or Yahveh, and perhaps other forms, meaning the Eternal, Self-Existent one, the One who is, was, and shall always be, as well as the One who Causes to be or not to be, the Creator of all there is] God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is MY MEMORIAL unto all generations" (Exo.3:15). 238 This One who spoke to Moses was not God the Father, as many have assumed. This had to be the second member of the Godhead -- the Logos -- who was created by the Father, and became His very own Son, through whom He created the Universe to follow. How do we know this? Simple: This great Being later spoke the Ten Commandments, and all Israel heard Him (Exo.20:1-17).

"And God spake all these words, saying . . ." (v.1). The One who would speak would naturally be the Word, the Spokesman, the Utterer, the Speaker -- The Logos spoke on behalf of the Father. The people all heard Him speak the Ten Commandments, but were afraid, and said to Moses, "Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die" (Exo.20:18-19). God Himself, the Logos, said to Moses, "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven" (Exo.20:22). From this point on, God spoke with Moses, and Moses communicated His message to the people.

By The Deceased William F. Dankenbring Title: The Awesome Mystery of GOD The Father, the Logos, the Messiah, the Mystery of Christ

Sub-Title: Chapter 15 Who Is the"ANGEL of the LORD"and the MESSIAH?

Love, Walter And Debbie
I think you will enjoy this. A non-Christian Jewish scholar points out a Trinitarian Theophany in Genesis 18. Its best I quote him directly:

Genesis 18, a J text, provides one of the most revealing cases. At the outset of that chapter, we read, “ Yhwh manifested Himself () to Abraham amidst the trees of Mamre while Abraham was sitting at the entrance of his tent, at the heat of the day. He lifted up his eyes and saw three men coming toward him” (Genesis 18.1– 2). The juxtaposition of these two sentences (which are from a single Pentateuchal source7) implies that Yhwh appears in the form of three men, or at least in the form of one of the three men.8Abraham, however, does not realize that his visitors are not human.9He directs his attention especially to one of these men, whom he addresses in the singular, using the obsequious courtesy normal in the ancient Near East: “ My Lord, if you find me acceptable, please do not pass by your servant” (18.3). All three men subsequently speak in 18.9; in 18.10 one visitor, still not identified explicitly, predicts or promises to return months later, at which time Abraham will have a son. Thus this visitor speaks prophetically, which is to say, in God's voice, though whether this is because the visitor is God or merely represents God is not made clear. (The alternation between singular and plural continues throughout this passage.10) Finally, in 18.13 the narrator stops being coy and simply refers to one of the visitors as Yhwh. Two of the visitors leave, and the one who remains with Abraham is now clearly identified as Yhwh (18.22); Abraham's knowledge is now parallel to the reader's, for in the discussion that follows it is clear that Abraham now knows who the remaining Visitor is. The other two beings are subsequently referred to as angels (, 19.1). It is clear that Yhwh appears in bodily form to Abraham in this passage; what is less clear is whether all three bodies were Yhwh's throughout, or whether all three were Yhwh's at the outset of the chapter but only one of them by its end, or whether the other two were merely servants (perhaps human, perhaps divine) who, for no clear reason, were accompanying Yhwh.11In any event, the being who certainly was Yhwh was less than the deity's full manifestation. The visitor was not recognizable as God to Abraham at the outset, and he (He?) acts with a humility unbecoming a deity as h/He stands waiting before Abraham (at least according to what even traditionalist scholars regard as the original text of verse 2212). Further, even though the visitor is clearly identified as Yhwh by the middle of the chapter and refers to God in the first person while speaking, h/He announces h/His intention to “ come down” from heaven to observe Sodom and Gomorrah in verse 21 – even though H/he is already down on earth at this point. This visitor clearly is and is not identical with Yhwh; more precisely, He is Yhwh, but is not all of Yhwh or the only manifestation of Yhwh; rather, He is an avatar, a “ descent” of the heavenly God who does not encompass all of that God's substance.13Either a localized and perhaps temporary manifestation of the deity (that is, the result of a fragmentation of the divine self) speaks with Abraham, or the deity partially overlaps with one or several messengers.



Sommer, Benjamin D.. The Bodies of God and the World of Ancient Israel (pp. 40-41). Cambridge University Press. Kindle Edition.

 
Yes, One Name Yahweh and this is the One Name given by and describes the One God, Yahweh, God the Father. This Name also speaks of God's purpose of salvation through Jesus, the Saviour, the Son of God, and the power of God, the Holy Spirit was instrumental in the birth and ministry of Jesus. The faithful are also included within the Yahweh Name.

Kind regards
Trevor
Postscript on the riddle, "What is His Son's name, if you know"

All images of gods have the name of their respective God.

Christ is the Image of God (Col. 1:15).
God's Name is "Yahweh"
Therefore, as Christ is the image of God, His Name is "Yahweh":

That is the answer to the riddle of the Name of God's Son.

"Yahweh" is the answer, not "Yahweh" and "Jesus" because it begins with a "compound unity" ascending descending, creating all things. So the primary answer is "Yahweh" Father and Son accomplishes all these things, therefore that is the Name of His Son.

However, even if one insists "Yahweh" and "Jesus" are the answer to the names of Father and Son, it identifies both as a compound unity doing things only "Yahweh" has done, which implies "Yahweh" is the answer being sought.

This postscript appended to Post #237

"Yahweh" is the answer to the riddle God asks:

Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, If you know? (Prov. 30:4 NKJ)

[Jesus] Yahweh ascends and descends from heaven, established the ends of the earth (John 1:1-3; 3:13; "The Image of God"in nature and deeds Col. 1:15-17)----God's Name is "Yahweh" therefore "Yahweh" must be the name of His Son ALSO:

8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men."
9 (Now this, "He ascended "-- what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
(Eph. 4:8-10 NKJ
)
 
Last edited: