Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Butch5]

1 Cor. 15: 1-4
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Believe in this, and you are saved. Believe not in this, and your damned and will be tossed into hell.

This is the Gospel that Paul received by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1: 11-12
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

That is part of it. This too is part of the Gospel that Paul received from Jesus.

2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

(Rom 2:2-10 KJV)

 

[Edward]

Funny, Paul was accused of that very thing. Romans 6 is a great chapter. The reason why the world is in apostasy is because the Word of God is not being taught today. Jesus is not being taught, Sin is not being taught, Christian living is not being taught, heck, the correct gospel is not being taught.

You got that right Brother. Luckily, the correct gospel is all over you tube. There's a lot of good new info coming out of late, about the Lord. Oh, The Lord has been very busy lately on the earth! It's just like scripture says also, in the last days, knowledge will be increased. This is of course speaking of the knowledge of the Lord. John 13 is also a verry good chapter which a study of should be done of in a thread.

 

[JLB]

Ok, So you have faith in your ability to believe to the end. Its almost as if, your not really sure if its true or not and that you have to make sure that you always believe. If your presented information that is true, (for example 1+1=2) your always going to believe it. God presents information to you. You either believe it is true or not. You either trust that information that he gave is true or not. If you believe that something is true, why do you have to make sure that you believe it is true?

See here is what messes people up. 1+1=2 is an inaccurate translation. In the greek, 1 is actually 1.2. so 1+1=2 is wrong. So it should read 1.2+1.2=2.4. The problem with todays Christianity is not with what God has said. This was just an example(a big one). People just don't believe what God has said. Seminaries, pastors, etc...do nothing bout cause doubt in Gods word.

God plants a seed within us.

You are trying to convince everyone that God plants a mature harvest within us.

A seed is not a harvest.

A seed has the potential to become a harvest.

If a seed opens and comes up above the ground as a leaf, is it a harvest? NO.

In fact you can not even tell what was planted until it produces fruit.




JLB

 

[Edward]

That's right, JLB. This is another reason that we should continue to plant seeds (which is our duty). Give your testimony, speak that word, say that prayer! Many times, we may may not even get to see the fruit of what it is that has been planted. We plant the seed and they go on home and the Holy Spirit takes it from there and waters that seed.

 

[veryberry]

God plants a seed within us.

You are trying to convince everyone that God plants a mature harvest within us.

A seed is not a harvest.

A seed has the potential to become a harvest.

If a seed opens and comes up above the ground as a leaf, is it a harvest? NO.

In fact you can not even tell what was planted until it produces fruit.



JLB

1 Cor. 3: 6-7
6. I have planted, Apollos watered: but God gave the increase
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Rom. 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Php 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[jeff77]

God plants a seed within us.

You are trying to convince everyone that God plants a mature harvest within us.

A seed is not a harvest.

A seed has the potential to become a harvest.

If a seed opens and comes up above the ground as a leaf, is it a harvest? NO.

In fact you can not even tell what was planted until it produces fruit.



JLB

This is what I was just thinking about JLB. Are the soils with the seeds that died in that parable an example of a person that lost their salvation?

 

[jeff77]

1 Cor. 3: 6-7
6. I have planted, Apollos watered: but God gave the increase
7. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Rom. 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Php 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Interesting sourberry. I was reading the verse of the day on my Bible app and Phillipians 1:6 caught my attention. Is it saying that when someone is saved they will believe until the end?

 

[veryberry]

1Jo 2:25 - And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 John 5: 10-13

10. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son
12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Psalms 89: 27-37

27. Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28. My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29. His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30. If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31. If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32. Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33. Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34. My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah

 

[veryberry]

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:14,27-30

14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

Romans 8: 38-39

38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is what I was just thinking about JLB. Are the soils with the seeds that died in that parable an example of a person that lost their salvation?

13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." (Luke 8:13 NASB)

OSAS says there is no such person--one who believes and then falls away. The church is told to read 'they believe' through the lens of OSAS which turns the plain words of scripture into 'they didn't really believe'. This is how indoctrinations work. They teach us to not see the plain words of scripture.

There's a peculiar thing I've noticed about some of the various indoctrinations gripping the church at this present time. It's the duplicity you find in them. In this case OSAS claims a truly saved person can not go back to unbelief (the argument being then that they were never saved to begin with), but then they'll use passages like 2 Timothy 2:13 NASB to show that salvation is 'once and for all' because even when we are unfaithful God is not.

This duplicity, common in some of the erroneous doctrines in the church, makes it harder to debate those doctrines. For whichever side of it's conflicting doctrine comes in handy in an argument they use that. Then they use the other side when that comes in handy to defend their point. So OSAS has to decide which one is true. Is going back to unbelief not being able to reverse one's salvation true? Or is if you do go back to unbelief you were never saved to begin with true? Which is it OSAS?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

John 6:37 - All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:14,27-30

14. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.

Romans 8: 38-39

38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now your job is to show that what you say these scriptures imply, but don't come right out and say, somehow makes the plain words of other scriptures not mean what they so plainly mean.

We can't toss out the plain words of scripture in favor of words that are not so plain. But that is what indoctrinations teach us to do.

 

[veryberry]

Now your job is to show that what you say these scriptures imply, but don't come right out and say, somehow makes the plain words of other scriptures not mean what they so plainly mean.

We can't toss out the plain words of scripture in favor of words that are not so plain. But that is what indoctrinations teach us to do.

What do you need to do to make sure you are believing?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Now your job is to show that what you say these scriptures imply, but don't come right out and say, somehow makes the plain words of other scriptures not mean what they so plainly mean.

We can't toss out the plain words of scripture in favor of words that are not so plain. But that is what indoctrinations teach us to do.

Why is the onus on him and not you?
The thread is titled "Do you support OSAS".
He just proved that.
You need to show his verses don't support OSAS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What do you need to do to make sure you are believing?

Do you mean how can I tell I'm still believing and trusting in Christ's forgiveness?

Biblically, the answer to that question is look at your life to see if you are characterized more and more by the qualities of the Spirit. The Spirit is how we know we have the promise of eternal life. We know we have the Spirit by if he is manifesting himself in us in the fruit of the Spirit--particularly the fruit of love (godly love, not worldly love).

Peter says it like this:

"5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge,6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control,perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness,7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love.8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble..." (2 Peter 1:5-10 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why is the onus on him and not you?

Because he says the passages he shared show OSAS, but hasn't shown where it says that in the passages. It is implied.

So, until he comes up with hard and fast words that say the believer can not walk away from his salvation then we have to go with the plain scriptures I have provided that show he can, and warns him not to.

The thread is titled "Do you support OSAS".
He just proved that.

What he did was rehash the OSAS argument that squeezes the implication out of those passages that we can not do anything to affect our salvation once we have that salvation. But it's an implication that is easily dispelled by other plainly worded scripture that warns those standing in faith not to walk away from the security of that faith.

You need to show his verses don't support OSAS.

I challenge him or anybody else to show us how those passages say the believer is helpless to abandon and forfeit the promise of salvation he has received. That's how I'm showing you and others that those passages do not support OSAS. You have to read them through the predetermined indoctrination of OSAS to get a solid case for OSAS out of them.

 

[JLB]

Why is the onus on him and not you?
The thread is titled "Do you support OSAS".
He just proved that.
You need to show his verses don't support OSAS.

There has not been a scripture presented in this thread that proves OSAS.

The ONUS is on the one who is required to prove that OSAS is valid.

That has not and can not be done.

There has been many many scriptures that prove OSAS is not a valid biblical doctrine.

While a person still has faith in Christ for salvation, they are in fact hoping for the reality of salvation.

The reality of salvation is received at the end of a person's faith.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3-5

Until you yourself hear these words from Jesus Christ - 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then you are still hoping for the reality of salvation, which requires faith unto the end.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


JLB

 

[veryberry]

There has not been a scripture presented in this thread that proves OSAS.

The ONUS is on the one who is required to prove that OSAS is valid.

That has not and can not be done.

There has been many many scriptures that prove OSAS is not a valid biblical doctrine.

While a person still has faith in Christ for salvation, they are in fact hoping for the reality of salvation.

The reality of salvation is received at the end of a person's faith.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:3-5

Until you yourself hear these words from Jesus Christ - 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Then you are still hoping for the reality of salvation, which requires faith unto the end.

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31-34


JLB

So pretty much, we are not really saved, but in the process of being saved which ultimately happens at death. Is this correct?

 

[Butch5]

So pretty much, we are not really saved, but in the process of being saved which ultimately happens at death. Is this correct?

Technically we're engaged and awaiting the wedding.

 

[veryberry]

Technically we're engaged and awaiting the wedding.

Technically the same concept right?

 

[Butch5]

Technically the same concept right?

Pretty much. We've entered into a covenant with God that will be brought to completion at the resurrection