Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Jethro Bodine]

Salvation and eternal security of the believer IS the milk of the word. If the believer is not going to get past salvation and eternal security, meat will never be metabolized and applied in the believers life.

Maybe that's why the church (in general) is so immature. It's choking on the plain milk of the scriptures that say we must believe to the end to be saved by that which we have placed our faith and trust in.

"22 ...He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 1: 22-23 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am here to tell you, if you are trusting in anything that you do for salvation, you will not make it and be cast into the fiery pits of hell.

And I am here to tell you that non-OSAS does not mean trusting in something other than Christ. It means not only trusting in the work of Christ for justification, but trusting in that work to the very end, or be cast into the lake of fire. But OSAS says that once you believe you are saved no matter what. The erroneous thinking being that if I 'did' nothing to get saved, then there's nothing I can do to be unsaved, somehow oblivious to the fact that what we did to get saved was the 'work' of believing (John 6:28-29 NASB), and that the work of believing must continue to the end in order to be saved on the Day of Wrath (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB).

 

[veryberry]

And I am here to tell you that non-OSAS does not mean trusting in something other than Christ. It means not only trusting in the work of Christ for justification, but trusting in that work to the very end, or be cast into the lake of fire. But OSAS says that once you believe you are saved no matter what. The erroneous thinking being that if I 'did' nothing to get saved, then there's nothing I can do to be unsaved, somehow oblivious to the fact that what we did to get saved was the 'work' of believing (John 6:28-29 NASB), and that the work of believing must continue to the end in order to be saved on the Day of Wrath (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB).

Ok, So you have faith in your ability to believe to the end. Its almost as if, your not really sure if its true or not and that you have to make sure that you always believe. If your presented information that is true, (for example 1+1=2) your always going to believe it. God presents information to you. You either believe it is true or not. You either trust that information that he gave is true or not. If you believe that something is true, why do you have to make sure that you believe it is true?

See here is what messes people up. 1+1=2 is an inaccurate translation. In the greek, 1 is actually 1.2. so 1+1=2 is wrong. So it should read 1.2+1.2=2.4. The problem with todays Christianity is not with what God has said. This was just an example(a big one). People just don't believe what God has said. Seminaries, pastors, etc...do nothing bout cause doubt in Gods word.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And I am here to tell you that non-OSAS does not mean trusting in something other than Christ. It means not only trusting in the work of Christ for justification, but trusting in that work to the very end, or be cast into the lake of fire. But OSAS says that once you believe you are saved no matter what. The erroneous thinking being that if I 'did' nothing to get saved, then there's nothing I can do to be unsaved, somehow oblivious to the fact that what we did to get saved was the 'work' of believing (John 6:28-29 NASB), and that the work of believing must continue to the end in order to be saved on the Day of Wrath (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB).

This same verse you use says "unless you believed in vain"...
There is your unsaved person.

 

[jeff77]

Finish the verse...

21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Look at these verses carefully. Why is it that these people believe that they should enter the kingdom? Because they are trusting in what they have done. I am here to tell you, if you are trusting in anything that you do for salvation, you will not make it and be cast into the fiery pits of hell.

I understand the reason why they are not making it into heaven. It appears to me that they believe they should be. For example when they are asking "and in thy name have cast out devils?". Also they are not claiming that they should be let in for just doing good or doing good for a false god because it says "Lord, Lord" and "in thy name". So, when I read these verses I take it that they do believe they are saved based on works but also believe in the Lord also.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ok, So you have faith in your ability to believe to the end.

Left to myself without the love and encouragement of God, I don't have the ability to believe to the end. Non-OSAS is not about being a Lone Ranger, but about choosing to depend on God to be strong to the end.

Its almost as if, your not really sure if its true or not and that you have to make sure that you always believe.

Are you talking to me personally? If so, no. I'm simply reading the scriptures that the church has been indoctrinated to not be able to see. The Bible says I have to believe to the very end to be saved, while OSAS says once I believe there's nothing I can do, or not do, to not be saved.

If your presented information that is true, (for example 1+1=2) your always going to believe it. God presents information to you. You either believe it is true or not. You either trust that information that he gave is true or not. If you believe that something is true, why do you have to make sure that you believe it is true?

It's not that a person has to make sure they believe it is true. It's about a person not being drawn back into the world and forfeiting that which they had in Christ.

"...they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away." (Luke 8:13 NASB)

You're missing what it's all about. When a person hates unrighteous things they cling to God's forgiveness, choosing to trust in Christ and be saved, instead of indulging the appetites of the world and being lost. I think it's important to take the hocus pocus that OSAS puts into faith and salvation and understand that persevering to the end is about making a conscious decision to cling to God's forgiveness as evidenced by a desire to love and serve righteousness, not unrighteousness.

See here is what messes people up. 1+1=2 is an inaccurate translation. In the greek, 1 is actually 1.2. so 1+1=2 is wrong. So it should read 1.2+1.2=2.4. The problem with todays Christianity is not with what God has said. This was just an example(a big one).

This 'the Bible doesn't really mean what it says' thinking has to go. When the Bible says you must believe to the end and be an overcomer to be saved, that's what it means.

People just don't believe what God has said. Seminaries, pastors, etc...do nothing bout cause doubt in Gods word.

I see that clearly right here in these forums. It's amazing to what lengths people will go to make passages in the Bible not really mean what they say. This creative interpretation is coming from our seminaries. I wish they were creating doubts about the doctrines we've come to embrace in the church today. Instead they are teaching and endorsing the very things that need to be honestly examined and scrutinized.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This same verse you use says "unless you believed in vain"...
There is your unsaved person.

Where is the 'unsaved person' in this?

"22 ...He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard" (Colossians 1:22-23 NASB)

Or in this?

"...you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:20-22 NASB)

He's clearly talking to people who have faith, not those who don't have faith. And he's warning these people who have faith to continue in that faith through which they are established and steadfast and standing in, or else be cutoff, and not presented holy and blameless before God.

Based on these clear admonitions to believers who have faith, there's no reason to make Paul's audience in 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 unbelievers, to whom he gives the same warning about continuing in their faith (that doesn't even make sense).

"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

Can "the gospel...which also you received, in which also you stand" somehow mean that these are not really believers standing on the gospel?

 

[Butch5]

Eph 2: 8-9
8. - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. - Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 11: 6 - And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Actually, that was Paul not God and he was talking about the works of the Mosaic law. He didn't say there was nothing one had to do. He was simply making the case that one is not saved by keeping the Law of Moses.

 

[veryberry]

Actually, that was Paul not God and he was talking about the works of the Mosaic law. He didn't say there was nothing one had to do. He was simply making the case that one is not saved by keeping the Law of Moses.

2 Tim 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Paul was the ink pen, God was the author.

Your not saved by works, PERIOD. Whether it be the Law of Moses, or the way you live your life, or what church you go to, or how often you read the bible, or what ever....

Jesus Christ died for your sins, he was buried, he rose again the third day. Believe that, your saved. Eternal Life is a gift. Your life is trash. My life is trash. You cannot make it on anything you do, or Christ died in vain.

 

[Butch5]

2 Tim 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Paul was the ink pen, God was the author.

When Paul wrote that the Scriptures were the OT Scriptures.

Your not saved by works, PERIOD. Whether it be the Law of Moses, or the way you live your life, or what church you go to, or how often you read the bible, or what ever....

Jesus Christ died for your sins, he was buried, he rose again the third day. Believe that, your saved. Eternal Life is a gift. Your life is trash. My life is trash. You cannot make it on anything you do, or Christ died in vain.

That's simply speculation, speculation that contradicts Scripture. Jesus said the way to life is narrow and one should "strive" enter.

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luk 13:23-24 KJV)

The Greek word translated "strive" means to earnestly contest, It's a verb which requires action. It's something you must do. It's also a command.

 

[veryberry]

When Paul wrote that the Scriptures were the OT Scriptures.



That's simply speculation, speculation that contradicts Scripture. Jesus said the way to life is narrow and one should "strive" enter.

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luk 13:23-24 KJV)

The Greek word translated "strive" means to earnestly contest, It's a verb which requires action. It's something you must do. It's also a command.

1 Cor. 15: 1-4
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Believe in this, and you are saved. Believe not in this, and your damned and will be tossed into hell.

This is the Gospel that Paul received by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1: 11-12
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[n2thelight]

God said, that his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, died for my sins. When he died, his blood was the payment and cleansed me of all sins. God said, it was done and that their was nothing that I needed to do. No works or anything and that the eternal life given to me was a gift. Jesus Christ was also buried and 3 days later, he rose from the dead, and has a glorified body. God said, that I will also be given a glorified body and be like his Son. To show his seriousness, God placed his holy spirit in me and one day, hopefully soon, Jesus will redeem me and give me my glorified body and I will live with him for eternity.

You say, I need to make sure I do something. God said, It has already been done.

If that's the case everybody should be saved,and have everlasting life....

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

There's that word again"if"so what happens "if"you don't keep His commandments?

 

[n2thelight]

1 Cor. 15: 1-4
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Believe in this, and you are saved. Believe not in this, and your damned and will be tossed into hell.

This is the Gospel that Paul received by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1: 11-12
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Veryberry,you should have bolded the if in verse 2.....

 

[veryberry]

Veryberry,you should have bolded the if in verse 2.....

Well I would have, if it pertained to salvation, which it doesn't. The context of chapter 15 is the resurrection.
So my bolds are accurate.
When Paul says "if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you" he is saying, you will know that Jesus Christ has risen from the dead. You can read the rest of the chapter. The only assumption of unsaved in this context are "unless ye have believed in vain". I say assumption because Paul is not even saying they did not believe, he is saying unless you did not believe. And if they didn't, then they are not saved. Despite all there carnality, which most of you here would say "they are not saved", Paul believes they are saved.

 

[veryberry]

If that's the case everybody should be saved,and have everlasting life....

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

There's that word again"if"so what happens "if"you don't keep His commandments?

I believe what God has said. Do I believe that everyone will be saved and have everlasting life? It would be nice, but no, I don't

Then you will suffer loss.
1 Cor 3: 15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[veryberry]

When Paul wrote that the Scriptures were the OT Scriptures.

If that is what you believe, then why waste your time in the gospels? Sure it has sayings of Jesus, but it was written by, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Go fetch you some sheep, build an alter and start doing sacrifices. Make sure they are with out spot and blemish!

That's simply speculation, speculation that contradicts Scripture. Jesus said the way to life is narrow and one should "strive" enter.

23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luk 13:23-24 KJV)

The Greek word translated "strive" means to earnestly contest, It's a verb which requires action. It's something you must do. It's also a command.

Believe is a verb. There is your action.

 

[Deborah13]

1 Cor. 15: 1-4
1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Believe in this, and you are saved. Believe not in this, and your damned and will be tossed into hell.

This is the Gospel that Paul received by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1: 11-12
11. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Hey, (that's a redneck Hi)

I believe this is the OT scripture that Paul is referring to in 1 Corinth. 15:4, pertaining to the resurrection of the Lord.

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[Edward]

They say that if you torture the text enough, that you can make it say whatever you want it to.

I think a lot of people get hung up on obedience. They believe that it would be works. I think if you're not obeident and cling to things of this world...you're out. I used to believe in OSAS, but no more. A careful literal reading of the scripture will show you that you must strive to be obedient and keep the faith. I think OSAS is a huge deception. It is true that no one can snatch us from His hand...but this is not a blank check to sin.

 

[veryberry]

They say that if you torture the text enough, that you can make it say whatever you want it to.

I think a lot of people get hung up on obedience. They believe that it would be works. I think if you're not obeident and cling to things of this world...you're out. I used to believe in OSAS, but no more. A careful literal reading of the scripture will show you that you must strive to be obedient and keep the faith. I think OSAS is a huge deception. It is true that no one can snatch us from His hand...but this is not a blank check to sin.

Funny, Paul was accused of that very thing. Romans 6 is a great chapter. The reason why the world is in apostasy is because the Word of God is not being taught today. Jesus is not being taught, Sin is not being taught, Christian living is not being taught, heck, the correct gospel is not being taught.

 

[Butch5]

If that is what you believe, then why waste your time in the gospels? Sure it has sayings of Jesus, but it was written by, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Go fetch you some sheep, build an alter and start doing sacrifices. Make sure they are with out spot and blemish!

This actually has nothing to do with the discussion

Believe is a verb. There is your action.

So is strive an Jesus said one must do it to be saved.