Do you support OSAS(once saved always saved)?

[Matthew G]

Being enlightened, according to use in the Bible, is to claim spiritual relation of truth. Nothing more.
If you read the rest of Chapter 6 of Hebrews, the writer compares God's people to those who are not.
Repentance of sins is not the same as renewal of heart.
If you try to repent of your sins first before you receive Jesus, you will fail. Repentance comes after salvation with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance first is a form of "works salvation".

Fair enough - but if being enlightened means to have spiritual truth - does that not lead to faith in Christ which leads to salvation?

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6 (emphasis mine)

If repentance only comes after salvation - and salvation can never be lost - then why is it pointed out that "it is impossible to bring back to repentance"?

It's because it is a warning, plain and simple. Otherwise, once again, the writer was either lying, mistaking, or wasting his time.

 

[gr8grace3]

And just as another little ditty, I point out Hebrews 6:4-6.
“4 For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— 6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.”

If those people were never saved (i.e. "enlightened") to begin with, then the writer of Hebrews wasted his time, lied, or was mistaken - but as what he wrote was by the inspiration and influence of the Holy Spirit, I don't think any of those three is possible.

And we have Heb 6:1~~Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

These saved Jewish Believers were being influenced to go back to the dead works of animal sacrifice. Were rebuked for doing it and then told that they were secure in their salvation in Christ.

Heb 6:9-11~~9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way(A pretty rough rebuke!). 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,

It was a rebuke of what they were doing, they were crucifying Christ every time they sacrificed animals for repentance. Then the Author went on to tell them that they have full assurance that it is done for them.

 

[Matthew G]

I see all this focus on the sinner and the believer. Eternal security is not about what the sinner does. Eternal security is about WHO the Savior is and what HE did for the sinner.

If our focus is to be a "fruit inspector" of other believers, one will begin to question eternal security.

If our focus remains on the Author and creator of our salvation, Eternal security remains a constant in our lives.

Eternal security is based off of the perfect integrity and immutability Of God. Not off of the basis of sinning creatures.

It really is arrogance that says a creature can cancel the perfect integrity and immutability of the Creator.

that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:15-16)

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24).......If it can be lost it would not be Eternal.

Eternal security is an unbreakable relationship, because it depends entirely on who and what God is, never on who and what we are. Grace always depends on God’s divine policy in dealing with us as believers. Your weaknesses cannot cancel God’s strength. Your failures cannot nullify or reduce in any way the integrity of God.

You say eternal security depends entirely on who and what God is, that nothing we do can impact it. Yet in the verses you quoted, receiving the gift of salvation is left entirely up to us.

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” - John 3:36 (emphasis mine)

. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:16

"“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." - John 5:24

It's up to us whether we believe and obey or not - which is the condition of receiving salvation. Yet you say it has nothing to do with us. I think you see the flaws in your argument.

 

[gr8grace3]

You say eternal security depends entirely on who and what God is, that nothing we do can impact it. Yet in the verses you quoted, receiving the gift of salvation is left entirely up to us.

“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” - John 3:36 (emphasis mine)

. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." - John 3:16

"“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." - John 5:24

It's up to us whether we believe and obey or not - which is the condition of receiving salvation. Yet you say it has nothing to do with us. I think you see the flaws in your argument.

I am talking about eternal security. Not about getting saved.

 

[Matthew G]

And we have Heb 6:1~~Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,

These saved Jewish Believers were being influenced to go back to the dead works of animal sacrifice. Were rebuked for doing it and then told that they were secure in their salvation in Christ.

Heb 6:9-11~~9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way(A pretty rough rebuke!). 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,

It was a rebuke of what they were doing, they were crucifying Christ every time they sacrificed animals for repentance. Then the Author went on to tell them that they have full assurance that it is done for them.

Yes, because they were going back on their faith. This is why they were warned that those who have been partakers of the Holy Ghost (which only comes through faith in Christ) if they should fall away (if it's not possible - then the writer lied) cannot be brought back to repentance.

"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." - Hebrews 6:4-6

 

[Matthew G]

I am talking about eternal security. Not about getting saved.

Then why did you quote those verses to support it? You chose those passages. Not me. I am merely pointing out that it's our belief and obedience that guarantees salvation - until we deliberately and voluntarily walk away. There is no clause anywhere in Scripture that says "unless you used to believe and obey".

 

[Kathi]

I am talking about eternal security. Not about getting saved.

What is the difference?

 

[Matthew G]

Peter tells us plainly that people will know Jesus Christ and turn away.

2 Peter 2:20-22 -
“20 And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. 21 It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.22 They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

Please note - "they are worse off than before".

So yes, people can be saved, and turn away - and they're worse off than if they had never been saved.

 

[Kathi]

Peter tells us plainly that people will know Jesus Christ and turn away.

2 Peter 2:20-22 -
“20 And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. 21 It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.22 They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

Please note - "they are worse off than before".

So yes, people can be saved, and turn away - and they're worse off than if they had never been saved.

So if someone is "saved" they never do get the Holy Spirit within them?Because once you have the Holy Spirit it can not be taken away.

 

[Kathi]

"Is a backsliding Christian still saved?"

Answer: This is a question that has been debated endlessly over the years. The word “backslider” or “backsliding” does not appear in the New Testament and is used in the Old Testament primarily of Israel. The Jews, though they were God’s chosen people, continually turned their backs on Him and rebelled against His Word (Jeremiah 8:9). That is why they were forced to make sacrifices for sin over and over in order to restore their relationship with the God they had offended. The Christian, however, has availed himself of the perfect, once-and-for-all sacrifice of Christ and needs no further sacrifice for his sin. God himself has obtained our salvation for us (2 Corinthians 5:21) and because we are saved by Him, a true Christian cannot fall away so as not to return.

Christians do sin (1 John 1:8), but the Christian life is not to be identified by a life of sin. Believers are a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). We have the Holy Spirit in us producing good fruit (Galatians 5:22-23). A Christian life should be a changed life. Christians are forgiven no matter how many times they sin, but at the same time Christians should live a progressively more holy life as they grow closer to Christ. We should have serious doubts about a person who claims to be a believer yet lives a life that says otherwise. Yes, a true Christian who falls back into sin is still saved, but at the same time a person who lives a life controlled by sin is not truly a Christian.

What about a person who denies Christ? The Bible tells us that if a person denies Christ, he never truly knew Christ to begin with. 1 John 2:19 declares, “They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.” A person who rejects Christ and turns his back on faith is demonstrating that he never belonged to Christ. Those who belong to Christ remain with Christ. Those who renounce their faith never had it to begin with. 2 Timothy 2:11-13, “Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.”

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/backsliding-Christian.html#ixzz2uHiYisRx

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes, because they were going back on their faith. This is why they were warned that those who have been partakers of the Holy Ghost (which only comes through faith in Christ) if they should fall away (if it's not possible - then the writer lied) cannot be brought back to repentance.

"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." - Hebrews 6:4-6

They fell away~~ returned to animal sacrifice for repentance, that practice cannot renew them to repentance Because they have already been forgiven. It cannot be renewed because it is already done. And the writer explains that to them in Heb 6:11~~And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,

These believers did not realize their full assurance.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.”
A big amen!

 

[Deborah13]

I was thinking about those who really are not saved.Does a person who is in continual unrepentenant sin really love the Lord?Yes,they may call themselves Christians.We as children of God mess up sometimes but we ask for repentence right away because we love and respect God.We do our best to be servants for our Lord,to do and say what we feel God wants us to do.What about the husband who continually abuses his wife.Emotionally,verbally and physically.Does he really love her?Has the person who is a Christian in name only really been saved.OSAS deals with a person who is truly saved.

Then I guess I'm not saved.

 

[gr8grace3]

Peter tells us plainly that people will know Jesus Christ and turn away.

2 Peter 2:20-22 -
“20 And when people escape from the wickedness of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up and enslaved by sin again, they are worse off than before. 21 It would be better if they had never known the way to righteousness than to know it and then reject the command they were given to live a holy life.22 They prove the truth of this proverb: “A dog returns to its vomit.”And another says, “A washed pig returns to the mud.”

Please note - "they are worse off than before".

So yes, people can be saved, and turn away - and they're worse off than if they had never been saved.

First off the context is false teachers. Second, the people that are worse off than before. Where were they before?

2 Pet 2:18-19~~For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they(the false teachers) entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved.

So the before is a person who is barely escaping. Yet escaping none the less. So we have a believer who is living in ignorance and falls prey to these false teachers.He would have been better of staying in Ignorance than to fall for the false teacher. He is worse of now because that person now has nowhere to go for true doctrine and will have a harder time believing true doctrine because of the false teaching he has fallen for.

Ignorance would have been a better place to stay. But being ignorant of bible doctrine will leave one with no armor for the false teachers.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Then I guess I'm not saved.

What!?
You're not saved!?
I'm telling...

 

[Kathi]

What!?
You're not saved!?
I'm telling...

lol!!

 

[Kathi]

I am wondering if Satan has the ability to know those who are not really saved.Then has a way in?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

There seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding here, as there usually is in these type of threads.
Here's the bottom line:
Do you know that you are going to be with God forever?
If you have doubt, then look at what Jesus did on the cross and know that what he did is a completed work, for you.
Believe in him as your Lord and Savior and believe he rose again from the dead.
Tell the world, "Jesus is Lord"!
Believe he overcame death and he will do the same for you.
Just don't let go of this, ever!
It is the free gift of God.

 

[Gary]

If you try to repent of your sins first before you receive Jesus, you will fail. Repentance comes after salvation with the help of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance first is a form of "works salvation".

Mark 1
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying,“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Repent first, believe after.

Matthew 4
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Jesus preached repentance first, not belief.


Luke 13
3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.


Acts 2
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is given after repentance.

Acts 3
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Repentance before conversion.

Acts 26
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

Repent, turn to God and then works. In that order.


Repentance always comes first. How can anyone expect to receive anything if they aren't repentant?
.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Mark 1
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying,“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Repent first, believe after.

Matthew 4
17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Jesus preached repentance first, not belief.


Luke 13
3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.


Acts 2
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is given after repentance.

Acts 3
19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

Repentance before conversion.

Acts 26
19 “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision,
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

Repent, turn to God and then works. In that order.


Repentance always comes first. How can anyone expect to receive anything if they aren't repentant?
.

Hi Gary, repent in all your verses does not mention repenting of your sins.
Repent is a turning away from the world and looking towards God.
Then we can see what he has for us.
If we hold onto the world then we cannot see God.