Does God LOVE everybody

[electedbyHim]

I asked you to post some scriptures where Jesus said He or His Father hated anyone in the world.


So far you have not.

I posted a 1 scripture out of many and you denied it.

Romans 9:13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Last I checked, God is Jesus come in the flesh.

Elected,,,,you never came back!! (to say bye).
No matter. I don't plan on staying here, just want to say a couple of things:

This conversation...which I just ran through quickly shows 2 ideas I've been saying all along.

1. One is that the reformed denomination/calvinism creates many conflicts in the bible.
You posted a verse saying that God hates the wicked from the OT.

Another member posted a verse from the NT stating that God loves everyone.....the whole world.
It plainly states THE WHOLE WORLD.

Now....what do we do with this conflict?
Does God love the whole world....which includes ALL of His creation
or
Does God love those He specifically chose and hates the wicked (which, BTW, He made that way).

2. You asked/stated in post 170 that Jesus is the Word.
So,,,in the OT it's stated that God hates the wicked.

In the NT, where we're taught by JESUS HIMSELF, who is THE WORD of God, that we're to love our enemies....
and you prefer to believe something from the OT that is PARTIAL revelation because Jesus is the ULTIMATE revelation...
because it agrees with your understanding of God?

Calvinism is a big problem.
It creates conflict within the bible which reformed theology cannot explain away.
It changes the character of God.
It turns many away from Christianity because the doctrines become too much to accept.

It creates a mess.

Plus
Christians follow Christ.
Calvinists follow Calvin. (and others, but Calvin was the most charismatic and evil - did God hate him??).

 

[electedbyHim]

Elected,,,,you never came back!! (to say bye).

I still post there.

I do not see how Calvin has anything to do with this as the Bible does teach both about Gods love and hate.

Again, I do not believe any human has the slightest idea about how God relates to love and hate.

I do not believe it is as cut and dry as humans make it.

You either hate something or love something.

Many verses support both views of love and hate.

I do not see how the Reformed view changes Gods character.

If you study Theology Proper, its pretty much all the same sysytematically from the Bible.

I will never pretend I understand it, I just believe what is written in His word.

It might seem a contradiction that a God who is love can also hate. Yet that’s exactly what Bible says is true: God is love (1 John 4:8), and God hates (Hosea 9:15). God’s nature is love—He always does what is best for others—and He hates what is contrary to His nature—He hates what is contrary to love.

No one should be surprised to learn that God does hate some things. He created us with the capacity to both love and hate, and we acknowledge that hatred is sometimes justified—we naturally hate things that destroy what we love. This is part of our being created in the image of God. The fact that we are all tainted with sin means that our love and hatred are sometimes misplaced, but the existence of the sin nature does not negate our God-given ability to love and hate. It is no contradiction for a human being to be able to love and hate, and neither is it a contradiction for God to be able to love and hate.

When the Bible does speak of God’s hatred, the object of His hatred is sin and wickedness. Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22), child sacrifice, sexual perversion (Leviticus 20:1–23), and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4–6; 11:5). Proverbs 6:16–19 lists seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those who love evil, false witnesses, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well. The reason is simple: sin cannot be separated from the sinner except by the forgiveness available in Christ alone. God hates lying, yes, but lying always involves a person—a liar—who chooses to lie. God cannot judge the lie without also judging the liar.

The Bible clearly teaches that God loves the people of the world (John 3:16). God spared wicked Nineveh, bringing them to repentance (Jonah 3). God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:32). He is patient to an extreme, “not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). This is all proof of love—God wants what is best for His creation. At the same time, Psalm 5:5 says about God, “You hate all evildoers” (ESV). Psalm 11:5 is even harsher: “The wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion.”

Before a person repents and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he is the enemy of God (Colossians 1:21). Yet, even before he is saved, he is loved by God (Romans 5:8)—i.e., God sacrificed His only begotten Son on his behalf. The question then becomes, what happens to someone who spurns God’s love, refuses to repent, and stubbornly clings to his sin? Answer: God will judge him, because God must judge sin, and that means judging the sinner. These are the “wicked” whom God hates—those who persist in their sin and rebellion, even in the face of the grace and mercy of God in Christ.

David writes, “You are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you” (Psalm 5:4, ESV, emphasis added). By contrast, those who take refuge in God will “be glad” and “ever sing for joy” (verse 11). In fact, both Psalm 5 and Psalm 11 draw a stark contrast between the righteous (those who take refuge in God) and the wicked (those who rebel against God). The righteous and the wicked make different choices and have different destinies—one will see the ultimate expression of God’s love, and the other will know the ultimate expression of God’s hatred.

We cannot love with a perfect love, nor can we hate with a perfect hatred. But God can both love and hate perfectly, because He is God. God can hate without sinful intent. He can hate the sinner in a perfectly holy way and still lovingly forgive the sinner at the moment of repentance and faith (Malachi 1:3; Revelation 2:6; 2 Peter 3:9).

In His love for all, God has sent His Son to be the Savior. The wicked, who are still unforgiven, God hates “for their many sins, for they have rebelled” (Psalm 5:10). But—and this is important to understand—God desires that the wicked repent of their sin and find refuge in Christ. At the moment of saving faith, the wicked sinner is removed from the kingdom of darkness and transferred to the kingdom of love (see Colossians 1:13). All enmity is dissolved, all sin is removed, and all things are made new (see 2 Corinthians 5:17). Gotquestions.net


I do not see this as a Calvinism/Reformed issue.

Most Christians only want to skip through the rose field of Gods love.

The really know nothing about Paterology.

There is so much to learn but we will never know it all.

​

 

[electedbyHim]

Augustine​

6 The love, therefore, wherewith God loveth, is incomprehensible and immutable. For it was not from the time that we were reconciled unto Him by the blood of His Son that He began to love us; but He did so before the foundation of the world, that we also might be His sons along with His Only-begotten, before as yet we had any existence of our own. Let not the fact, then, of our having been reconciled unto God through the death of His Son be so listened to or so understood, as if the Son reconciled us to Him in this respect, that He now began to love those whom He formerly hated, in the same way as enemy is reconciled to enemy, so that thereafter they become friends, and mutual love takes the place of their mutual hatred; but we were reconciled unto Him who already loved us, but with whom we were at enmity because of our sin. Whether I say the truth on this, let the apostle testify, when he says: “God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” Rom. v. 8, 9. He, therefore, had love toward us even when we were practising enmity against Him and working iniquity; and yet to Him it is said with perfect truth, “Thou hatest, O Lord, all workers of iniquity.” Ps. v. 5. Accordingly, in a wonderful and divine manner, even when He hated us, He loved us; for He hated us, in so far as we were not what He Himself had made; and because our own iniquity had not in every part consumed His work, He knew at once both how, in each of us, to hate what we had done, and to love what He had done. And this, indeed, may be understood in the case of all regarding Him to whom it is truly said, “Thou hatest nothing that Thou hast made.” Wisd. xi. 25. For He would never have wished anything that He hated to exist, nor would aught that the Omnipotent had not wished exist at all, were it not that in what He hated there was also something that He loved. For He justly hateth and reprobateth vice as utterly repugnant to the principle of His procedure, yet He loveth even in the persons of the vitiated what is susceptible either of His own beneficence through healing, or of His judgment by condemnation. In this way God at the same time hateth nothing of what He has made; for as the Creator of natures, and not of vices, it was not He who made the evil that He hateth; and of these same evils, all is good that He really doeth, either by mercifully healing them, or by judicially regulating them. Seeing, then, that He hateth nothing that He hath made, who can worthily describe how much He loveth the members of His Only-begotten, and how much more the Only-begotten Himself, in whom are hid all things visible and invisible, which were ordained in their various classes, and which He loves in fullest harmony with such ordination? For the members of His Only-begotten He is leading on by the liberality of His grace to an equality with the holy angels; while the Only-begotten Himself, being Lord of all, is doubtless Lord of angels, being by nature, as God, the equal not of angels, but rather of the Father Himself; while through grace, in respect of which He is man, how can He otherwise than surpass all angelic excellence, seeing that in Him human flesh and the Word constitute but one personality?

Augustine, “Lectures or Tractates on the Gospel According to St. John: CX.6,” in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, 1st Series, ed. Philip Schaff, 14 vols. (Peabody, Mass.: Hendrickson, 2004), 7:411.

 

[brightfame52]

John 3:16

God has no Love for any man except His Saving and Electing Love, whereby He actually saves Chosen sinners through Christ. Why speak of God's Love and neglect to mention as it is declared in scripture, that it is discriminating Elective Love Rom 9:11-13 ; Deut 7:6-7

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Now who can miss this grand Truth that God's Love here is the foundation for choosing a People[Israel], His Purpose according to Election!

Paul writes in Eph 1:3-5, that those Chosen in Christ were predestined in Love.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now is this Love of God any different from His Love to that People in Deut 7:7 or Jn 3:16 ? Are the objects of this Love different ? No it is not. In all these God's Love is toward a Chosen People Deut 7:7 or Jn 3:16. So in Jn 3:16 God's Love is towards a Chosen People in the World like He said in Deut 7:7, its the same People, but now in a different dispensation and generation !

 

[GodsGrace]

I still post there.

I do not see how Calvin has anything to do with this as the Bible does teach both about Gods love and hate.

Thanks for such a thought out reply.
The reason Calvin has to do with this is because Christians believe God is a God of love....and the reformed believe God hates some of His very creation. At least the higher Calvinists and hyper calvinists do.....even some calvinists can't accept this idea fully.

In Genesis God said IT IS VERY GOOD when He created mankind.
Since God FOREKNEW that Adam would fall,,,,HOW could He possibly say that it was good?
We create babies.....we say they're good when they're little... we don't say we hate some.

Then they grow up and become evil persons.....do we hate them?
Could we say that we don't hate our offspring...but that we don't love them like we used to?
I think this would be a good understanding of the OT verses....
Another understanding would be that God does not hate the person....but their actions.
Now this is problematic for the reformed because they believe God predestined every action of man....
so how does God hate the very actions that HE decreed?
Calvinism just makes no sense to me. We can say it's a mystery, as some reformed pastors do, but there are just too many mysteries in that belief system. (I'm not saying we could fully understand God).

Again, I do not believe any human has the slightest idea about how God relates to love and hate.

I do not believe it is as cut and dry as humans make it.

You either hate something or love something.

But you said it can't be cut and dry!
If there's no evil in God....how could He be hateful?
God causes it to rain on the just and the unjust....seems like He treats everyone equally.
God is no respector of persons and will give to each what he deserves..
John 5:29
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Psalm 62:12
Unfailing love, O Lord, is yours. Surely you repay all people according to what they have done.”

Proverbs 24:12
... He will repay all people as their actions deserve.”

I don't see hate in there....I see justice.

Many verses support both views of love and hate.

Answered above. Maybe.

What do we do with verses such as
Psalm 145:9
8The LORD is gracious and merciful;
Slow to anger and great in loving kindness.
9The LORD is good to all,
And His mercies are over all His works.

I do not see how the Reformed view changes Gods character.

We know from scripture that God is Loving, merciful and just.
I could post many verses but I think this is known to all Christians.
Psalm 145:9 above states that God is merciful and loving.
We know He is just and I posted some verses above which state that He will judge us by our deeds.
This is what justice is: Giving to each man what he deserves.

The reformed view changes God character because it teaches the opposite:
God is not loving.
God is not merciful.
God is not just.

Why?
How could God be merciful and loving if, from the beginning of time, HE chooses who will be saved - and for no reason at all except that it's His will?
Those God does not choose and are passed over will go to hell. You may not believe in double-predestination, but, in effect, it does end up being true. Those that God does not choose go to hell....He knows this, of course, and so it's GOD that causes most men to go to an eternal punishment - and through nothing that they have done.
HOW is that a merciful and loving God?

How could God be just if He does not give to each man what he deserves?
What makes God be just?
Every Christian knows that man is not worthy of anything and that man is depraved and born in a sinful nature.
What makes God be a just God is that He gives to man an EQUAL opportunity to be saved....He gives to each man the chance to accept Him and worship Him and obey Him and regain the relationship that was lost through Adam through acceptance of His Son, Jesus.

The reformed deny the simple teaching of John 3:16 or Acts 10:31....
BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.
WHOMEVER BELIEVES WILL NOT PERISH.
This is God giving to each man a chance at salvation.
This is justice that is practiced by a just God.

Reformed/Calvinist theology changes the nature of God.

If you study Theology Proper, its pretty much all the same sysytematically from the Bible.

I will never pretend I understand it, I just believe what is written in His word.

Why do we understand the word so differently?


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[GodsGrace]

electedbyHim

page 2 of 3

It might seem a contradiction that a God who is love can also hate. Yet that’s exactly what Bible says is true: God is love (1 John 4:8), and God hates (Hosea 9:15). God’s nature is love—He always does what is best for others—and He hates what is contrary to His nature—He hates what is contrary to love.

You said it: If God's NATURE is love....how could He hate?
God can't be both love and hate.
Divine simplicity states that God IS what He creates.
God IS something....He doesn't have it or contain it HE IS IT.
We don't say that God has love or shows love ...
we say that God IS love.
He is fully His nature.
If we're serving a God that has HATE in Him....I'd be very afraid of Him.
It would be like serving a hating dictator instead of a loving God.

I agree that God hates what is contrary to His nature and what is contrary to love.
I don't know if we can understand HOW God hates....
I used to teach that we're like ants....
God tried so many ways to reach us and we couldn't understand because He's so infinite...
so He became an ant so He could speak to us and teach us how not to go over the cliff they were all falling into.

Can a God that does this....becomes HUMAN....hate the very humans He comes to save?

No one should be surprised to learn that God does hate some things. He created us with the capacity to both love and hate, and we acknowledge that hatred is sometimes justified—we naturally hate things that destroy what we love. This is part of our being created in the image of God.

Hmmm. Jesus said we are NOT to hate.
Persons, at least.
But the reformed teach that God HATES PERSONS.
This is problematic.
Of course we should hate sin and evil.

The fact that we are all tainted with sin means that our love and hatred are sometimes misplaced, but the existence of the sin nature does not negate our God-given ability to love and hate. It is no contradiction for a human being to be able to love and hate, and neither is it a contradiction for God to be able to love and hate.

Right...But God's nature is NOT misplaced....
And everything God has given us is disordered....
maybe our idea of hate is too? (especially in regard to God).

When the Bible does speak of God’s hatred, the object of His hatred is sin and wickedness. Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22), child sacrifice, sexual perversion (Leviticus 20:1–23), and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4–6; 11:5). Proverbs 6:16–19 lists seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those who love evil, false witnesses, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does not include just things that God hates; it includes people as well. The reason is simple: sin cannot be separated from the sinner except by the forgiveness available in Christ alone. God hates lying, yes, but lying always involves a person—a liar—who chooses to lie. God cannot judge the lie without also judging the liar.

Yes, E, I have noticed this.
You like MacArthur...you must know that even he states that we cannot say that God hates persons.
He worries that this will have a negative effect on Calvinism itself.
He thinks it's too extreme.
That's another thing....every calvinist has a different belief system so it's difficult to address it as a whole idea and every now and then I'm told I'm wrong about something because that particular PERSON has a different belief.

If God hates THE PERSON....why does Romans state that while we were yet sinners...Christ died for us?
So how does it work?
God hates a person....and then saves him....and then God loves him??

No logic Elected...no matter how you turn it.

The Bible clearly teaches that God loves the people of the world (John 3:16). God spared wicked Nineveh, bringing them to repentance (Jonah 3). God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (Ezekiel 18:32). He is patient to an extreme, “not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). This is all proof of love—God wants what is best for His creation. At the same time, Psalm 5:5 says about God, “You hate all evildoers” (ESV). Psalm 11:5 is even harsher: “The wicked, those who love violence, he hates with a passion.”

If God does not want anyone to perish...
and it's up to HIM to save (monergism)
then why do some perish?

 

[GodsGrace]

electedbyHim

page 3 of 3

Before a person repents and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he is the enemy of God (Colossians 1:21). Yet, even before he is saved, he is loved by God (Romans 5:8)—i.e., God sacrificed His only begotten Son on his behalf. The question then becomes, what happens to someone who spurns God’s love, refuses to repent, and stubbornly clings to his sin? Answer: God will judge him, because God must judge sin, and that means judging the sinner. These are the “wicked” whom God hates—those who persist in their sin and rebellion, even in the face of the grace and mercy of God in Christ.

Every Christian believes with the above.
God cannot be in the presence of sinners....thus being born again is necessary.

David writes, “You are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you” (Psalm 5:4, ESV, emphasis added). By contrast, those who take refuge in God will “be glad” and “ever sing for joy” (verse 11). In fact, both Psalm 5 and Psalm 11 draw a stark contrast between the righteous (those who take refuge in God) and the wicked (those who rebel against God). The righteous and the wicked make different choices and have different destinies—one will see the ultimate expression of God’s love, and the other will know the ultimate expression of God’s hatred.

Wow. OK. We agree.
You just said that the wicked have a CHOICE.
Agreed 100%
Also, if God does not delight in wickedness...
HE ALSO cannot be wicked.
Choosing some for hell IS WICKED....
Those who He does not choose go to hell....same as double predestination.

We cannot love with a perfect love, nor can we hate with a perfect hatred. But God can both love and hate perfectly, because He is God. God can hate without sinful intent. He can hate the sinner in a perfectly holy way and still lovingly forgive the sinner at the moment of repentance and faith (Malachi 1:3; Revelation 2:6; 2 Peter 3:9).

In His love for all, God has sent His Son to be the Savior.

In His love for all, you said.
So what are we disagreeing about??

Do you agree at all with how I described God's hate up above?

The wicked, who are still unforgiven, God hates “for their many sins, for they have rebelled” (Psalm 5:10). But—and this is important to understand—God desires that the wicked repent of their sin and find refuge in Christ. At the moment of saving faith, the wicked sinner is removed from the kingdom of darkness and transferred to the kingdom of love (see Colossians 1:13). All enmity is dissolved, all sin is removed, and all things are made new (see 2 Corinthians 5:17). Gotquestions.net

Gotquestions. Reformed.
Do you ever read anything that is not reformed?
I read everything.

I do not see this as a Calvinism/Reformed issue.

Could be. I just think that those on this side of the isle don't believe God has hate, as we understand it, in Him.
We'll now when we get there.

Most Christians only want to skip through the rose field of Gods love.

Agreed. God is love, but He is also just, as I've posted above.

The really know nothing about Paterology.

Pater means father.
But I don't know anything about it either.
Divine Simplicity has helped me in understanding God as love.

There is so much to learn but we will never know it all.

Amen to that!
Catch you the next time around,,,,unless you have something specific to say in regard to my comments.

 

[tdidymas]

My question that I asked was -

I asked you to provide verses I asked you to provide verses where Jesus, the Man Jesus Christ, stated where He said He hated a person.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Your question is a straw man, then, designed to burn down any answer given. I respond according to Biblical truth, not just to please you.

Let me ask you a question: where in the Bible does it specifically say that the Man Jesus Christ loved Judas Iscariot? Can you provide it?

But don't give me an answer that you reason out, since you don't accept my answer that I reasoned out.

 

[Whatever]

If we're serving a God that has HATE in Him....I'd be very afraid of Him.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
God is Holy, Holy, Holy.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.

Leviticus 26:11 I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.

Abhore from Strongs
H1602 -- gâ‛al
A primitive root; to detest; by implication to reject: - abhor, fail, lothe, vilely cast away.

Psalm 119:120 My flesh trembles for fear of You, And I am afraid of Your judgments.
Isaiah 8:13 But the LORD of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all.

 

[electedbyHim]

electedbyHim

page 3 of 3



Every Christian believes with the above.
God cannot be in the presence of sinners....thus being born again is necessary.

Wow. OK. We agree.
You just said that the wicked have a CHOICE.
Agreed 100%
Also, if God does not delight in wickedness...
HE ALSO cannot be wicked.
Choosing some for hell IS WICKED....
Those who He does not choose go to hell....same as double predestination.

In His love for all, you said.
So what are we disagreeing about??

Do you agree at all with how I described God's hate up above?


Gotquestions. Reformed.
Do you ever read anything that is not reformed?
I read everything.

Could be. I just think that those on this side of the isle don't believe God has hate, as we understand it, in Him.
We'll now when we get there.

Agreed. God is love, but He is also just, as I've posted above.

Pater means father.
But I don't know anything about it either.
Divine Simplicity has helped me in understanding God as love.


Amen to that!
Catch you the next time around,,,,unless you have something specific to say in regard to my comments.

As I stated earlier, I believe most Christians only want to "skip throught the rose field" and only see the God of love.

They do not wan to see God who is a conssuming fire , just in His wrath etc.

This is all taught throughout the Bible.

The Lord did not have to choose any of us for salvation, we all deserve damnation and hell.

We are blessed He chose us out of nothing we ever did.

I will let it go here.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[JLB]

I posted a 1 scripture out of many and you denied it.

Romans 9:13 Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

Is Jacob and Esau part of the New Covenant, New Testament?

Just so you will know, those who hate no longer have eternal life abiding in them.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Jesus said unless you hate…

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26

Do you hate your family?


In the context, Jesus is making a statement about preferring Him over your own family.


IOW, in that culture, not allowing your family to come between you and your commitment to serve the LORD Jesus Christ.

That’s the context.

It doesn’t mean we are to “HATE” our family, but rather choose Jesus over our family.

Context is crucial.


Concerning Jacob and Esau, the context is being elected for purpose not elected for salvation.


Election in the context of Romans 9 is about election according to purpose.

The purpose that was specifically in context was being chosen for the generational bloodline of Jesus Christ.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

Now for Jacob and Esau -

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:11-13


God preferred Jacob over Esau to carry the bloodline of the Messiah.

That’s the context.


God did not hate Esau and choose him for eternal damnation while choosing Jacob for eternal salvation.


God did not “HATE” Esau anymore than you are called to “HATE” your family.

 

[JLB]

Your question is a straw man, then, designed to burn down any answer given. I respond according to Biblical truth, not just to please you.

Let me ask you a question: where in the Bible does it specifically say that the Man Jesus Christ loved Judas Iscariot? Can you provide it?

But don't give me an answer that you reason out, since you don't accept my answer that I reasoned out.

Asking you to provide scripture for your belief is just a part of any fruitful discussion.


If you don’t have one and don’t want to answer then so be it.

 

[electedbyHim]

Is Jacob and Esau part of the New Covenant, New Testament?

Just so you will know, those who hate no longer have eternal life abiding in them.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


Jesus said unless you hate…

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26

Do you hate your family?


In the context, Jesus is making a statement about preferring Him over your own family.


IOW, in that culture, not allowing your family to come between you and your commitment to serve the LORD Jesus Christ.

That’s the context.

It doesn’t mean we are to “HATE” our family, but rather choose Jesus over our family.

Context is crucial.


Concerning Jacob and Esau, the context is being elected for purpose not elected for salvation.


Election in the context of Romans 9 is about election according to purpose.

The purpose that was specifically in context was being chosen for the generational bloodline of Jesus Christ.


For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:3-5

Now for Jacob and Esau -

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” Romans 9:11-13


God preferred Jacob over Esau to carry the bloodline of the Messiah.

That’s the context.


God did not hate Esau and choose him for eternal damnation while choosing Jacob for eternal salvation.


God did not “HATE” Esau anymore than you are called to “HATE” your family.

Who said I hate anyone.

Please do a study on Theology Proper.

You assume much my friend.

 

[JLB]

Who said I hate anyone.

Please do a study on Theology Proper.

You assume much my friend.

I didn’t say you hated anyone.

I asked if you hated your family?

If your answer is no then that’s great.


Why would you think God who is love, hates the world when the Lord Jesus Christ said God loves the world… so much so that He sent His Son to dies for the sin of the world.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Whoever in the world who believes in Him shall have everlasting life.




JLB

 

[electedbyHim]

I didn’t say you hated anyone.

I asked if you hated your family?

If your answer is no then that’s great.


Why would you think God who is love, hates the world when the Lord Jesus Christ said God loves the world… so much so that He sent His Son to dies for the sin of the world.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16


Whoever in the world who believes in Him shall have everlasting life.




JLB

I have no hatred in my heart for any human.

The Bible speaks of Gods hate so I have to believe it.

His hatred is holy and nothing like human hatred, no one can understand it. That goes for His love as well.

 

[JLB]

I have no hatred in my heart for any human.

The Bible speaks of Gods hate so I have to believe it.

His hatred is holy and nothing like human hatred, no one can understand it. That goes for His love as well.

Here is the truth.

For God so loved the world

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

It’s your choice to believe it or not.

 

[JLB]

The Bible speaks of Gods hate so I have to believe it.

“I have shown love to you,” says the LORD, but you say, “How have you shown love to us?”
“Esau was Jacob’s brother,” the LORD explains, “yet I chose Jacob and rejected Esau. I turned Esau’s mountains into a deserted wasteland and gave his territory to the wild jackals.”
Malachi 1:2-3 NET

 

[electedbyHim]

Here is the truth.

For God so loved the world

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

It’s your choice to believe it or not.

Is that the only Sceipture you know about the Lord?

Seriously?

Please do a study on Theology Proper.

 

[JLB]

The Bible speaks of Gods hate so I have to believe it.

The question is do you understand what God means when He says…

If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26


Do you understand Jesus does not want you to literally hate your family or anyone.

He expects us to prefer Him over our family.

Not HATE our family.