- Jul 13, 2012
- 38,364
- 8,047
Did you read the post?
Yes.
Please show me a scripture where Jesus taught His disciples that God hates the world.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
Did you read the post?
What were my scripture references ?Yes.
Please show me a scripture where Jesus taught His disciples that God hates the world.
I agree with this.Yes, this is a translation issue. "Hate" therein simply means love them less than Lord Jesus. Paul later wrote that no one hates his own flesh, but nourishes it.
Of course we are in the family of God.And I also stated,,,,at some point.....that God is not only love....
I'm not skipping through any rose field and I don't know many Christians that are.
I also had spoken of God's justice.
God is perfectly balanced....
He loves His creation (us) but He is also just and will give to each
man what he deserves.
John 5:29
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Romans 2:5-6
5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
Note: Romans 2 even states that this is due to man's stubborness....IOW, man's free will.
Matthew 6:27
Rev 20:12
and more...
Agreed. I just proved it above.
Well then....IF God is just....
WHY aren't we all going to hell??
He chose us because we believed/obeyed.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
Romans 10:9
Ephesians 2:8-9
Matthew 7:21-23
and so many more.
To you to Elected.
Because we do not agree, does not mean we're not brothers in Christ (or sister!).
And if Free is reading along...there's a problem logging in.
I have to want to reply in order for the log in to come up.
The normal log in up on top, right hand corner, seems messed up.
GG
2Timothy 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,Note: Romans 2 even states that this is due to man's stubborness....IOW, man's free will.
Not one of those verses say anything as to why He chooses anybody.He chose us because we believed/obeyed.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
Romans 10:9
Ephesians 2:8-9
Matthew 7:21-23
“Hating” your family over the messiah is a communist doctrine, they taught kids to hate and report their family who’s not on board with the revolutionary cause.I agree with this.
“Hating” your family over the messiah is a communist doctrine, they taught kids to hate and report their family who’s not on board with the revolutionary cause.
Hating” your family over the messiah is a communist doctrine
What were my scripture references ?
The Bible says that God hates some people. Romans 9:13 says that God hated Esau
I'm getting at the devastating consequences of misquoting this verse, which is not aiming at you. Love for family and love for God is not a dichotomy, it's not like you can only love one at the cost of another. Quite the opposite, we're taught to love God AND love our neighbors, aren't we.I never claimed to hate my family.
Not certain what you are getting at.
This is why Theology is so important.Again, we had this discussion and now you are trying to circle back to Romans 9 where the context is not about choosing for salvation but choosing for purpose.
The purpose of election was the bloodline of the Messiah.
Esau was rejected and Jacob was elected.
This had nothing to do with salvation or HATE in that sense.
The LORD preferred Jacob over Esau.
The LORD preferred Isaac over Ishmael.
Again do you hate your family?
Just as you can't answer my question either.Asking you to provide scripture for your belief is just a part of any fruitful discussion.
If you don’t have one and don’t want to answer then so be it.
This is why Theology is so important.
This absolutely has to do with Salvation.
You do not have a Biblical understanding of predestination/election.
Let me help.....
ELECTION. The act of choice whereby God picks an individual or group out of a larger company for a purpose or destiny of his own appointment. The main OT word for this is the verb bāḥar, which expresses the idea of deliberately selecting someone or something after carefully considering the alternatives (e.g. sling-stones, 1 Sa. 17:40; a place of refuge, Dt. 23:16; a wife, Gn. 6:2; good rather than evil, Is. 7:15f.; life rather than death, Dt. 30:19f.; the service of God rather than of idols, Jos. 24:22). The word implies a decided preference for, sometimes positive pleasure in, the object chosen (cf., e.g., Is. 1:29). In LXX and the NT the corresponding verb is eklegomai. eklegō is commonly active in classical Gk., but the biblical writers always use it in the middle voice, with reflexive overtones: it thus means ‘choose out for oneself’. haireomai is used synonymously of God’s choice in 2 Thes. 2:13, as in Dt. 26:18, LXX. The cognate adjectives are Heb. bāḥîr and Gk. eklektos, translated ‘elect’ or ‘chosen’; the NT also uses the noun eklogē, ‘election’. The Heb. verb yāḏa‘, know, which is used of various acts of knowing that, in idea at least, imply and express affection (e.g. relations between the sexes, and the believer’s acknowledgment of God), is used to denote God’s election (i.e. his taking cognizance of persons in love) in Gn. 18:19 (see RV); Am. 3:2; Ho. 13:5. The Gk. proginōskō, ‘foreknow’, is similarly used in Rom. 8:29; 11:2 to mean ‘forelove’ (cf. also the use of ginōskō in 1 Cor. 8:3 and Gal. 4:9).
J. I. Packer, “Election,” ed. D. R. W. Wood et al., New Bible Dictionary (Leicester, England; Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1996), 306.
Properly understood, God’s unconditional election is one link in the unbreakable chain of salvation seen in Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Romans 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
All Those Who Are Predestined Will Be Saved (John 6:39; Romans 8:30)
They Are The Ones That God The Father Gives To Jesus Christ (John 6:37)
Who Will Raise Them Up On The Last Day (John 6:39; John 17:2).
They Are Christ’s Sheep (John 10:1-30)
Who Hear His Voice And For Whom He Died (John 10:15)
Give Them Eternal Life And Make Them Secure Forever In The Hand Of God (John 10:26-30).
Faith And Good Works Are The Result, Not The Ground Of Predestination (Acts 13:48; 18:27; Eph. 1:12; 2:10; 2 Thess. 2:13,14)
There are several common misconceptions about unconditional election. First it is important to understand that the doctrine does not teach that God’s choice is not random or made without reason. What it does teach is that the reason God elects someone to salvation is not because of something worthy God finds in that individual but because of His inscrutable, mysterious will. He makes the choice as to who will be saved for His own reasons, according to His own perfect will and for His own good pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). And while some object to the doctrine of election as being unfair, it is nevertheless based upon God’s will and it pleases God; therefore it must be good and perfectly just.
Another misconception is that unconditional election precludes and stifles evangelism, but the reality is just the opposite—it empowers and confirms it. When one correctly understands that God has not only elected certain individuals to salvation but also has ordained the means of salvation—the preaching of the Gospel (Romans 1:16; Romans 10:14-17)—it empowers the spreading of the Gospel message and the call to evangelism. We see this very thing in Paul’s writing to Timothy in the midst of deep persecution. “I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ…” (2 Timothy 2:10). A proper understanding of the doctrine of election encourages evangelism and guarantees its success. It overcomes the fear of failure when sharing the Gospel and empowers people to remain faithful to the message in times of great persecution. They know that the power lies in the Gospel message and in God’s sovereign election and not in their own feeble presentation. A biblical understanding of election helps one share the Gospel freely with all people, knowing that anyone of them could be Christ’s sheep whom He is calling into His fold (John 10:16). It is not up to us to determine if someone is elect or non-elect, and there is always a hope of salvation for anyone who will repent of their sins and believe in Christ. The Gospel message should be preached to all people in the knowledge that God will use it to draw His sheep to Himself.
Unconditional election also does not mean that there will be people in heaven who do not want to be there, nor will there be people in hell who wanted to be saved but could not be because they were not elect. Unconditional election properly recognizes that, apart from God’s supernatural work in the life of a sinner, men will always choose to reject God and rebel against Him (see the article on Total Depravity for more information on this subject). What unconditional election does correctly recognize is that God intervenes in the lives of the elect and works in their lives through the Holy Spirit so that they willingly respond in faith to Him. Because they are “His sheep…they hear his voice and follow Him” (John 10:1-30). As for the non-elect, God is still gracious to them, but because of their sin they are not thankful for that grace, nor do they acknowledge Him as God (Romans 1:18-20). Consequently, they receive the just punishment due them. Those whom God elects are beneficiaries of His sovereign grace and mercy, and those whom He does not elect receive the justice they have earned. While the elect receive God’s perfect grace, the non-elect receive God’s perfect justice.
(Not sure of the source, part of this was in my personal studies.)
Here's the tricky thing: there IS a predestined/elected number for God's people, this number is fixed; however, who's actually accepted as the elected and who's not is not predestined. That's what it means when Jesus concluded "many are called but few are chosen". It's like 100 come to an audition, only 10 get a callback; or 100 resumes are submitted, only 10 get hired. As long as the audition or the hiring is not rigged, all 100 are evaluated fairly, no individual, even the director's sibling, children or old pal is predestined to get the job before they show up. To sum it up, 10 spots are "predestined", which 10 individuals out of the 100 are not predestined.This is why Theology is so important.
This absolutely has to do with Salvation.
You do not have a Biblical understanding of predestination/election.
Let me help.....
This has nothing to do with what I posted.Nowhere did Jesus teach that God hates certain people of the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
It’s undeniably clear that God loves the people of the world.
It’s undeniably clear that God wants the people of the world to be saved… so much so He sent His Son into the world that through His Son the people of the world would be saved.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not biblical.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not from Christ.
Only 2 types of people throughout history.Here's the tricky thing: there IS a predestined/elected number for God's people, this number is fixed; however, who's actually accepted as the elected and who's not is not predestined. That's what it means when Jesus concluded "many are called but few are chosen". It's like 100 come to an audition, only 10 get a callback; or 100 resumes are submitted, only 10 get hired. As long as the audition or the hiring is not rigged, all 100 are evaluated fairly, no individual, even the director's sibling, children or old pal is predestined to get the job before they show up. To sum it up, 10 spots are "predestined", which 10 individuals out of the 100 are not predestined.
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed. (Rev. 6:9-11)
It is tricky when you subscribe to the ideology of "predestination". Who exactly are regenerate and who aren't?Only 2 types of people throughout history.
The regenerate and the unregenerate.
Nothing tricky about it.