Does God LOVE everybody
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Let me know when you find the scripture where Jesus said God hated the people of the world.
It’s just the truth.
Nowhere did Jesus teach that God hates certain people of the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
It’s undeniably clear that God loves the people of the world.
It’s undeniably clear that God wants the people of the world to be saved… so much so He sent His Son into the world that through His Son the people of the world would be saved.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not biblical.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not from Christ.
Nowhere did Jesus teach His disciple that God hates certain people of the world.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
It’s undeniably clear that God loves the people of the world.
It’s undeniably clear that God wants the people of the world to be saved… so much so He sent His Son into the world that through His Son the people of the world would be saved.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not biblical.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not from Christ.
OK
I tried it right now.
It worked.
Only problem is that it looks like a REGISTER instead of a LOG IN.
Hope everybody can figure this out....
Thanks!
Please do not modify bible verses to your liking without explanation like you are paraphrasing the verse , edits will happen and bans too . 
Bible Version References
All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.
Info on copyrights can be found at BibleGateway - Available Versions
This is not just a request, it's the law.
Bible Version References
All Bible verses and passages must be referenced (NASB, NIV, etc.) unless it is public domain like the KJV, YLT, etc.
Info on copyrights can be found at BibleGateway - Available Versions
This is not just a request, it's the law.
Whatever.....how can we take the exact same verse and understand it differently?
Let's look at the verses you posted.
Three comments:
1. 98% of the following state that IF PERHAPS GOD MAY GRANT....
This is the difference between God ALLOWING things to happen
and God PREDESTINATING things to happen.
The reformed read PREDESTINATION into every single verse they read.....
even though it's not there.
2. In the book of 2 Tmothy, Paul is writing to Timothy telling him to oppose NEW TEACHINGS....
Are you aware that John Calvin, and all those that taught as he did (which teachings even the Protestant movement denied after a while) was teaching in the 1500's?
Does this sound to you to be an orthodox (small o) teaching or a NEW TEACHING?
I do believe that any new teaching which came about after 1,500 years after Jesus ascended will have to be classified as new.
3. EVERY Christian agrees that it is GOD that changes hearts. Jeremiah: I WILL GIVE THEM A NEW HEART.
The question is: HOW does God give to each born again person a new heart....
Is it because God forces this new heart in him?
or
Is it because man has accepted Jesus and has done as the jailer in Acts 16:31 was told to do?
Acts 16:31 NASB
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
BELIEVE IN JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.
BELIEVE IN JESUS is a command.
A command denotes FREE WILL.
AND YOU WILL.....future tense.
AFTER we believe, as commanded....
we WILL BE saved.
You should not add to scripture.
******************************************************************
2 Timothy 2:25
New International Version
Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
New Living Translation
Gently instruct those who oppose the truth. Perhaps God will change those people’s hearts, and they will learn the truth.
English Standard Version
correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
Berean Standard Bible
He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth.
Berean Literal Bible
in gentleness disciplining those opposing, lest ever God may give them repentance unto a knowledge of the truth,
King James Bible
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
New King James Version
in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
New American Standard Bible
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
NASB 1995
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
NASB 1977
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Legacy Standard Bible
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may give them repentance leading to the full knowledge of the truth,
Amplified Bible
He must correct those who are in opposition with courtesy and gentleness in the hope that God may grant that they will repent and be led to the knowledge of the truth [accurately understanding and welcoming it],
Christian Standard Bible
instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth.
American Standard Version
in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth,
Contemporary English Version
Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to him and learn the truth.
English Revised Version
in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth,
GOD'S WORD® Translation
He must be gentle in correcting those who oppose the Good News. Maybe God will allow them to change the way they think and act and lead them to know the truth.
Good News Translation
who is gentle as you correct your opponents, for it may be that God will give them the opportunity to repent and come to know the truth.
International Standard Version
and gentle when refuting opponents. After all, maybe God will allow them to repent and to come to a full knowledge of the truth,
Well then...let's go over each verse: Scripture is highlighted and is NASB
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
OK, now don't ADD any words or ideas to the above.
Read it simply:
GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM
WILL NOT PERISH
Now look at verse 17:
The world will be saved through Jesus...
The Son the Father sent to save the world THROUGH HIM.
And HOW will that happen?
WHOEVER believes in Him will have eternal life.
WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM
NOT
Whoever God predestined to believe in Him.
Seems to me that if God predestined our salvation:
1. There would be no need for the gospel.
2. It would state this somewhere and in no uncertain terms.
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Acts 16:31
30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
The jailor asked HOW he could be saved.
HOW are we saved?
Paul answered: BELIEVE and YOU WILL be saved.
I went over this in my previous post to you so I won't repeat.
Now...who knows more about HOW we can be saved?
Paul or Calvin or Knox or Zwingly or MacArthur or Piper?
I'll take Paul.
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Romans 10:9
9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Again...easy. When we believe we become saved.
Do you see a WHY up there?
No.
Then HOW do you know the WHY?
But it does state the HOW....which is the reason that the NT was written.
It's God's letter to mankind teaching mankind HOW to become saved.
And how can we know WHY this salvation:
As usual, God let's us know the WHY that you are seeking:
1. God loved His creation so much that He: (desires all men to be saved)
1 Timothy 2:4
1First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. 7For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
Paul is asking prayer for ALL MEN....
This is a good thing for God....
Who desires ALL MEN to be saved.....
Jesus gave Himself FOR ALL as a ransom (unlimited atonement)
Paul is a teacher of the gentiles.
What is there to teach IF God has predestinated everything??
Because God hasn't predestinated everything....
and He desires that men KNOW HOW to become saved.
But, alas, not all will heed His conditions, clearly laid out in the NT...the ultimate revelation.
I mean, really Whatever....do you believe God created man so He could send the majority to hell?
And after HE predestinated every action we take....
BUT we're still responsible for our moral acts...
Does this sound like a JUST God to you?
WE also read Christ into every verse even though it is not explicitly there.
Calvin taught the same thing as Augustine (354–430). I am not aware that all Protestants denied what Calvin taught. The state Anglican Church of England believed these things.
I found one of the confessions, but it was from 1801:
XVII. Of Predestination and Election.
Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God, be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.
As the godly consideration of Predestination, and our Election in Christ, is full of sweet, pleasant, and unspeakable comfort to godly persons, and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ, mortifying the works of the flesh, and their earthly members, and drawing up their mind to high and heavenly things, as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their faith of eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God: So, for curious and carnal persons, lacking the Spirit of Christ, to have continually before their eyes the sentence of God's Predestination, is a most dangerous downfall, whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation, or into wretchlessness of most unclean living, no less perilous than desperation.
Furthermore, we must receive God's promises in such wise, as they be generally set forth to us in Holy Scripture: and, in our doings, that Will of God is to be followed, which we have expressly declared unto us in the Word of God.
You guys are really hung up on the word "whoever" or "whosoever."
This is
Young's Literal Translation
16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
The Lord predestined everyone who will be saved, but God works through means.
2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
Strongs says about "through' A primary preposition denoting instrumentality
Makes clear sense to me. God from the beginning chose X,Y, and Z - for salvation through the instrumentality of the Spirit's sanctifying work (new heart) and then comes belief in the truth, so that these shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Eze 36:26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.
Free willers just can't stand this.
OK.
I read the above but it'll have to wait till after dinner.
Your lunch...
My dinner.
And I thought it was not allowed to use the term Free Willers....
It sounds condescending.
I
God hates with a perfect hatred , just He Loves with a Perfect Love that is also infinite, without limits, beyond measurement.
Man's hate, man's love, perverse naturally, fleshly naturally, worldly naturally.... not something good to be desired.
Man's hate, man's love, perverse naturally, fleshly naturally, worldly naturally.... not something good to be desired.
Only if you don't understand predestination. You think God predestines the end (people's salvation) without also predestining the means by which He accomplishes it.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The word "through" means "by means of."
God predestines that all His elect are born into this world among other sinners, and experience all the depravity and corruption that sin produces. Then at His timing, each one is called through the gospel. The Holy Spirit makes them capable of accepting it, they believe and they are saved. Then the NT tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. And then to:
2 Peter 1:5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This makes perfect sense to those who aren't pre-hardened against it.
Wheat and the Tares.
Thats why we continue to share the gospel and trust in the Lord.
Only the Lord knows the heart.
I believe the Bible does tell us who is regenerate and who is not.
Currently listening to a sermon series on knowing the elect.
1 Thessalonians.
The "perhaps" is from our point of view.
2 Timothy 2:24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth . . .
Paul is telling Timothy to not quarrel with people and to humbly correct them. Perhaps God will grant them repentance.
Notice that God has to grant (give) them repentance. Paul know that not everybody will repent, perhaps this one will (if God grants it.)
Then your post has nothing to do with the OP.
My post is in concert with the OP and the discussion points I have consistently made.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
It’s undeniably clear that God loves the people of the world.
It’s undeniably clear that God wants the people of the world to be saved… so much so He sent His Son into the world that through His Son the people of the world would be saved.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not biblical.
Any doctrine that teaches otherwise is not from Christ.