Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul scripture oppose works of the mosaic law ordinances and requirements that were fulfilled in Christ and nailed to the cross also works alone, not faith and works in a Christian united to Christ by grace Jn 15:4

It doesn't matter how you want to distinguish one righteous work from another. NONE of them make you a righteous person. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can do that.

The ONLY way to be made righteous is for your unrighteousness to be removed through the grace of God's forgiveness, not your work, no matter how righteous and faithful that work is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!

The Catholic church just isn't that power and authority of Christ. That's what you're not getting.

 

[Barbarian]

It is as James says, if one has faith, that will be seen in the quality of one's life.
That is in the good deeds one is doing.

Which is a good answer. As James says, works save. But they save only if done in love for God and one's fellow man:

1 Corinthians 1 If I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Paul makes it clear that even the greatest of faith is worthless without love that validates faith by one's works. James points out that the devils know what God is, and tremble, but it does them no good. Jesus says that it is your works by which He will chose who goes with Him and who goes with the devil and his angels. But it only saves if it is done in love.
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind. [38] This is the greatest and the first commandment. [39] And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

 

[jaybo]

Romans 11:6

But if by grace, then it is no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it is of works, then it is no more of grace; otherwise work is no more work

I prefer this translation of Romans 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace." I think that "then it is no more of grace, otherwise work is no more work" to be confusing

 

[Hopeful]

By the mercy and grace of God.
That's the only thing in all of creation that can remove sin guilt.

Not to mention sin itself.

 

[Hopeful]

But it’s not Peter and the apostles on their own or by their nature, there are united to Christ and grace Jn 1:16-17 Jn 15:5 and guided the HS and angels acts 8

the church is not by any of them.
The church was founded on the fact that Jesus is the Son of God.

 

[Hopeful]

I never said to worship any but God alone!

Hmmmm

And how can you possibly worship God? You have no means to do so!

All I need to do is speak/pray, in the name of Jesus Christ.
It is written..."For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil." (1 Peter 3:12)

 

[Hopeful]

We must submit and obey the apostles not worship them!

Like this exhortation?
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

 

[donadams]

The Catholic Church has twisted and perverted the scriptures to invent and promote a cult of Mary worship. I will have nothing to do with it.

You cannot claim to be a Christian and violate the 8th commandment, Thou shalt not bear false witness!
You can show no where that the holy church teaches Mary worship!
On the contrary the church teaches only God may be worshipped!

Praise, love, prayer, veneration are not worship, worship requires intent!
Example: when you kneel next to you’re bed to pray to God are you worshiping you’re bed? No cos you have no intent to do so!

Mary’s great dignity and privileges are not due to nature, but to God’s grace! Lk 1:49

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,

Filled by God with the plenitude of God’s grace and the treasurer of all graces! Heb 4:16

 

[donadams]

Please stop using James' 'faith alone' argument to try to nullify Paul's very different argument about 'righteousmess apart from works'. They are NOT the same.

Please refer to Paul's argument when talking about Paul's argument. A man is MADE righteous by faith all by itself apart from works. Faith alone is referring to not having any works to show that you have faith and has nothing to do with how to be made righteous.

Paul does include grace???

 

[donadams]

The proper phrase is "righteousness apart from works" Romans 4:6.

'Faith alone' is a different argument that has nothing to do with how a person is made righteous.

Alright rephrase all my questions to where does it say any of these by faith apart from works

 

[donadams]

But the Catholic church is not that church! That's the #1 problem with your belief system. You blindly follow people who told you they are the only ones who have and know the truth. And they make you afraid to question them.

No one told me it’s from my study of scripture
Then pray tell what is the one true church visible and invisible, physical and spiritual, with hierarchical jurisdiction, one holy catholic and apostolic???

 

[donadams]

It doesn't matter how you want to distinguish one righteous work from another. NONE of them make you a righteous person. Only the forgiveness of God received by faith can do that.

The ONLY way to be made righteous is for your unrighteousness to be removed through the grace of God's forgiveness, not your work, no matter how righteous and faithful that work is.

How do we obtain mercy?

How is grace applied to our souls?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Praise, love, prayer, veneration are not worship, worship requires intent!
Example: when you kneel next to you’re bed to pray to God are you worshiping you’re bed? No cos you have no intent to do so!

I'm not praying to or about my bed, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You cannot claim to be a Christian and violate the 8th commandment, Thou shalt not bear false witness!
You can show no where that the holy church teaches Mary worship!
On the contrary the church teaches only God may be worshipped!

I don't care what church or denomination is doing this. This is Mary worship:

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Lk 1:28 Hail Mary! Full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women,

Filled by God with the plenitude of God’s grace and the treasurer of all graces! Heb 4:16

That's talking about Jesus our High Priest, not Mary.

Hebrews 4:14-16
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. 16Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

I don't approach Mary for anything. I have access to the High Priest Himself. I don't need Mary. Nobody does.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Mary’s great dignity and privileges are not due to nature, but to God’s grace! Lk 1:49

That's true of every believer.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul does include grace???

Yes, Paul includes grace! I've been saying this all along. A person is justified by faith in the grace of God's forgiveness...apart from works!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Alright rephrase all my questions to where does it say any of these by faith apart from works

Paul talks about justification in regard to becoming righteous. That's the particular definition and usage of 'justified' that Paul is using. We know that from this:

Romans 10:3
3Because they were ignorant of God’s righteousness and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.

Philippians 3:9
9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ,a the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.


It is a righteousness that comes from God and is given to a person for believing in the blood of God's Son, Jesus, for the forgiveness of sin, not given in exchange for doing righteous rituals and deeds, and so it is said to be given "apart from works":

Romans 4:5-6
5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6And David speaks likewise of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits (gives) righteousness apart from works

 

[donadams]

the church is not by any of them.
The church was founded on the fact that Jesus is the Son of God.

Where does scripture say this?
Who founded the church?
Founded on Peter’s person Matt 16:18-19