Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

Make up scripture?
“The church is founded upon the confession of Peter that Jesus Christ is the son of God” this verse is not found in scripture or Matt 16

Agreed.
Founded on the confession.
Not the confessor.

Why does Jesus “you” are Peter?
Why does he change his name?

He didn't change his name, as he was called Peter from when he was recruited by Jesus in Matt 4:18.

Why does he say it is Peter who is blessed?

Because the Spirit of God had shown him who Jesus was.

Why is only Peter given the keys of jurisdictional authority over the universal church and kingdom? (Isa 22:21-22)
Why is Peter is given power to bind and loose?

Only Peter?
Do you really think that the "keys" were never manipulated by anyone after Peter died?
All the disciples of our Lord had the same authority, and so do you and I.

Peter’s person not a confession!

I don't agree that Jesus founded a church on any man.
The idea stinks of idolatry.

How do you give keys, power, and authority to a confession???

Jesus gave it to all that are disciples of Jesus Christ.
Can't you forgive sins?
I can: in fact if I don't forgive, I won't be forgiven myself.

Thanks

You are welcome.

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus is the source of All grace Jn 1:16-17 all the grace received in the past were granted by God in virtue of the merits of Christ’s blood, passion, and death!

Lk 1:37

More likely God just loved the recipient of the grace.
Noah, for instance.

 

[donadams]

Actual righteousness / holiness!

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

 

[donadams]

Agreed.
Founded on the confession.
Not the confessor.

He didn't change his name, as he was called Peter from when he was recruited by Jesus in Matt 4:18.

Because the Spirit of God had shown him who Jesus was.

Only Peter?
Do you really think that the "keys" were never manipulated by anyone after Peter died?
All the disciples of our Lord had the same authority, and so do you and I.

I don't agree that Jesus founded a church on any man.
The idea stinks of idolatry.

Jesus gave it to all that are disciples of Jesus Christ.
Can't you forgive sins?
I can: in fact if I don't forgive, I won't be forgiven myself.

You are welcome.

Christ high eternal priest and His apostles and their successors (low priests) are separate from the people, nations

Jurisdictional authority:

Hierarchical authority:

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Apostles are ordained / bishops / ministry

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Same ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Apostolic authority!
God sent them apostles to teach them the truth revealed by Christ!
Matt 28:19 all the apostles
Philip an apostle acts 8
Peter an apostle acts 10

Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Acts 1:8 my witnesses

There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

 

[donadams]

More likely God just loved the recipient of the grace.
Noah, for instance.

Mary is the divine treasury of graces merited by Christ eph 2:8 it is she who believed Lk 1:45 she in her immaculate conception (a work of God) Lk 1:49 that she received all graces for us! Heb 4:16
Mother of our salvation! Lk 1:30 Lk 1:38 Lk 2:30
Our spiritual mother! Jn 19:26-27
Rev 12:17 thanks

 

[Hopeful]

Christ high eternal priest and His apostles and their successors (low priests) are separate from the people, nations

Jurisdictional authority:

Hierarchical authority:

Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Apostles are ordained / bishops / ministry

Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Same ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Apostolic authority!
God sent them apostles to teach them the truth revealed by Christ!
Matt 28:19 all the apostles
Philip an apostle acts 8
Peter an apostle acts 10

Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

Acts 1:8 my witnesses

There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

You have re-established Judaism.
It didn't work the first time and it isn't working now.

 

[Hopeful]

Mary is the divine treasury of graces merited by Christ eph 2:8 it is she who believed Lk 1:45 she in her immaculate conception (a work of God) Lk 1:49 that she received all graces for us! Heb 4:16
Mother of our salvation! Lk 1:30 Lk 1:38 Lk 2:30
Our spiritual mother! Jn 19:26-27
Rev 12:17 thanks

Sounds like idol worship to me.
One of the first thing I did when I became a Christian was to throw my Mary statue in the dumpster.

 

[donadams]

You have re-established Judaism.
It didn't work the first time and it isn't working now.

Christ established the new covenant not me?
Does scripture say Jesus is high priest? Heb 8:1

 

[donadams]

Sounds like idol worship to me.
One of the first thing I did when I became a Christian was to throw my Mary statue in the dumpster.

Warning from scripture: cursed is the man that angers his mother!

Don’t say Mary is not my mother, that’s the same as saying You’re not a disciple or Christian! Jn 19:26-27

Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
Mary is the mother of our salvation!
Found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
Immaculate conception preserved from all sin by God! Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1
God provided a means salvation to men thru Mary!
Mother of our savior / salvation!

We pray to God they the intercession of Mary and the saints by the one mediator Jesus Christ!

Why do you suppose bowing constitutes worship?
Worship requires intent, adoration, propitiatory reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Do you worship you’re bed in idolatry when you kneel and pray next to it? No cos you have intent to do so.

 

[PartisanRanger]

This discussion about James chapter 2 has been going on for years. I used to participate in this theological discussion and look at both sides of the matter. At this period in life, I would like to say that the book of James is a gem. It is the word of God. Enjoy it, savor it, and let it bless your life.

 

[Hopeful]

Christ established the new covenant not me.

Agreed.

Does scripture say Jesus is high priest? Heb 8:1

Yes Heb. 8:1 does call Jesus a high priest.
But I don't see any mention of low priests in Christianity.

 

[Hopeful]

Warning from scripture: cursed is the man that angers his mother!

Don’t say Mary is not my mother, that’s the same as saying You’re not a disciple or Christian! Jn 19:26-27

Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
Mary is the mother of our salvation!
Found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
Immaculate conception preserved from all sin by God! Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1
God provided a means salvation to men thru Mary!
Mother of our savior / salvation!

We pray to God they the intercession of Mary and the saints by the one mediator Jesus Christ!

Why do you suppose bowing constitutes worship?
Worship requires intent, adoration, propitiatory reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Do you worship you’re bed in idolatry when you kneel and pray next to it? No cos you have intent to do so.

That is idol worship.
Mary was Jesus' mom, not mine.
I was gracefully reborn of God's seed without the need for a mother.

 

[Hopeful]

This discussion about James chapter 2 has been going on for years. I used to participate in this theological discussion and look at both sides of the matter. At this period in life, I would like to say that the book of James is a gem. It is the word of God. Enjoy it, savor it, and let it bless your life.

Thanks, I will.
Welcome to the site.

 

[Pass-A-Gospel-Tract]

Warning from scripture: cursed is the man that angers his mother!

Don’t say Mary is not my mother, that’s the same as saying You’re not a disciple or Christian! Jn 19:26-27

Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
Mary is the mother of our salvation!
Found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
Immaculate conception preserved from all sin by God! Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 rev 12:1
God provided a means salvation to men thru Mary!
Mother of our savior / salvation!

We pray to God they the intercession of Mary and the saints by the one mediator Jesus Christ!

Why do you suppose bowing constitutes worship?
Worship requires intent, adoration, propitiatory reparation, thanksgiving, and petition!

Do you worship you’re bed in idolatry when you kneel and pray next to it? No cos you have intent to do so.

Can you just go back to the Catholic Forum, your doctrine is not sound and never was when I read your comments from the start. Also the Catholics will be left behind if they trust their works for Salvation. I've already explained the book of James in accordance with other scriptures but you just keep harping the wrong doctrine, teachings and nit picking verses without proper context to suit your narrative. Mary can never intercede our prayers nor can lead our Salvation, also praying and worshipping Mary has its pagan roots in Babylon worship of Semiramis (Ishtar / Queen Mother) and Tammuz (Baal / her Baby)

 

[donadams]

This discussion about James chapter 2 has been going on for years. I used to participate in this theological discussion and look at both sides of the matter. At this period in life, I would like to say that the book of James is a gem. It is the word of God. Enjoy it, savor it, and let it bless your life.

Luther do d not agree!

What is the rule of faith for Christians or the source of truth?

 

[donadams]

Agreed.

Yes Heb. 8:1 does call Jesus a high priest.
But I don't see any mention of low priests in Christianity.

How can you have a high priest without low priests? Simple logic would demand that
The apostles / bishops are priests with Christ according to the order of melchisedec having the same ministry offering the same sacrifice, the people are only of the royal priesthood 1 pet 2:9

 

[donadams]

That is idol worship.
Mary was Jesus' mom, not mine.
I was gracefully reborn of God's seed without the need for a mother.

Worship requires intent!

All grace come thru Mary include the grace of salvation!

Is eve the mother of all the living?

Is Rachel the spiritual mother of the children of Israel?

Why does the name of Mary invoke idolatry in some people?

To true Christians it’s the sweet name of the mother of our salvation! Lk 1:30 Lk 1:38 Lk 2:30 The holy and immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

 

[Hopeful]

How can you have a high priest without low priests? Simple logic would demand that
The apostles / bishops are priests with Christ according to the order of melchisedec having the same ministry offering the same sacrifice, the people are only of the royal priesthood 1 pet 2:9

We in the NT have no need for "priests".
Jesus is our high priest, as He was the One to offer the greatest sacrifice anyone can make on our behalf...thank God.

 

[Hopeful]

Worship requires intent!

Sure does, and in this case it is to elevate Mary to godhood.
Only a false religion would try such a thing.

All grace come thru Mary include the grace of salvation!
Is eve the mother of all the living?
Is Rachel the spiritual mother of the children of Israel?
Why does the name of Mary invoke idolatry in some people?
To true Christians it’s the sweet name of the mother of our salvation! Lk 1:30 Lk 1:38 Lk 2:30 The holy and immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

 

[donadams]

We in the NT have no need for "priests".
Jesus is our high priest, as He was the One to offer the greatest sacrifice anyone can make on our behalf...thank God.

Then who are the low priests?
How can there be a high priest without low priests of the same order offering the same sacrifice?

Statements made by evangelists who claim scripture!

No one single person in the New Testament is identified as a priest!

First that’s cos everyone in the new covenant is a priest !

Either Christ and His apostles and their successors and those they ordain according to the order of melchisedec or the people in the royal priesthood!

Heb 7:17

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;


And it’s not actually true either!

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ is identified as a priest!
Eternal and high priest!

Apostles / bishops and those they ordain!

1 Timothy 4:14
Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.

All the people in the communion of saints! 1 pet 2:9