That really didn't make any sense.
What is it you are responding to?
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?
- Thread starter Pass-A-Gospel-Tract
- Start date
What is it you are responding to?
I was once a catholic, but I still don't say I am saved, as there is yet a final judgment wherein we will find out if our names are in the book of life.
When I find out my name is listed, then I will say "I am saved!".
Until then, I will say "I am converted."
Don't you think the folks who were the workers of iniquity in Matt 7:22 erroneously thought they were saved?
Jethro Bodine
Member
If you believe the gospel you heard then you are saved. Paul says this in 1 Corinthians 15:1-2.
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
"You are saved" and "hold firmly" are both in the present tense. It means you are presently saved if you are presently holding firm to the word of the gospel you heard in the beginning. As long as you are presently believing the gospel you are presently saved.
What you don't know is if you will remain saved. That's why we are exhorted to continue to believe, so that we remain saved. (Calvinists believe that's a given...that the true believer will always believe, because God made them believe, and so they will always be saved and never be lost.)
Jethro Bodine
Member
To be converted is to be saved.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:17
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, that's what they thought. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about whether one really is actually saved or not.
If a person is presently believing they are in fact presently saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-2). And a person knows if they are presently believing by if they have the changed/changing life that the imputation of God's righteousness via the Holy Spirit produces in a person's life.
Philip not an apostle?
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Jn 1: 43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
44 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
The last part of verse 2 is what I refer to when I say I will wait to say "I am saved"..."if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Still predicated on the "IF".
I fear that plenty of self-described believers will be revealed as unbelievers on the day of judgement.
Many believe a lie, and not the truth.
Maybe, but I will not usurp the judgment of God by saying something only He can declare.
"Changing"?
That smacks of the gradual sanctification doctrines I have encountered.
Is 85% "changed" enough?
45%?
98%?
Only 100% changed will do, in the end.
I will say I am a winner, after I finish the race.
Not the Philip who was of the seven assigned to do the "chores". (Acts 6:5, 8:5)
Jethro Bodine
Member
" if you possess these qualities in increasing measure" 2 Peter 1:8 NIV
"once your obedience is complete" 2 Corinthians 10:6 NIV
"But we must hold on to the progress we have already made." Philippians 3:16 NLT
See, justification (the imputation of God's righteousness unto salvation) is not gradual. Sanctification, growing up into the righteousness you have received as a child of God, is.
Jethro Bodine
Member
He doesn't leave you to wonder.
The Bible exhorts us to make our calling and election sure, and how to do that, and not leave it to chance.
Jethro Bodine
Member
But I explained to you there is no waiting.
The condition for being a saved person is that you are PRESENTLY holding fast to the word of the gospel preached to you. It is literally saying if you presently believe then you are presently saved. There is no 'let's wait and see' about it. But surely, the believer must believe all the way to the very end to be saved from God's judgement when Jesus returns.
The point is, you are not made a saved person after a lifetime of believing. You are made a saved person the instant you believe and you remain a saved person as long as you are continuing in that believing.
Jethro Bodine
Member
That is absolutely true. But the 'if' is if you are at this moment presently believing. The 'if' is not if you believe all the way to the end, though you certainly must do that. The point being, you aren't made a saved person in the end. You are made a saved person now, and as that saved person will then be saved from the wrath of God's final judgment on humanity at the end of the age at the resurrection.
Jethro Bodine
Member
That is a fact. Jesus told us that himself:
22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’
23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’
Matthew 7:22-23
But there's no reason for that to happen since the Bible tells us to "strive to make our calling and election sure"-2 Peter 1:10 BSB. If we do that then there is no guess work or fear as to what will happen to us at the end of the age at the final judgment. God has graciously told us how to prepare for the end, and how to know we are prepared.
We can/must grow in grace and knowledge, but we start that growth from the point of rebirth from God's seed.
How can anyone be more holy or consecrated (sanctified) than that?
You need a different definition of sanctification.
There will still be a day of judgement, no matter how sure we are.
And I am grateful for the provisions God in Jesus Christ has provided us to keep our election sure.
"IF".
"Remain".
"As long as".
It is within our power to prevail over temptation all of our remaining life.
Still though, we must prevail.
If you don't believe "all the way to the end", you don't believe.
I will wait for God's judgement in terror, instead of claiming any prize before He does the final judging.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." (Pro 9:10)
The bible, and Peter, do tell us "what to do": but we must still do it.
Thank God for verses like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Keep looking for the escapes !