Not faith alone but suffering in union with Christ. Thanks
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?
- Thread starter Pass-A-Gospel-Tract
- Start date
Do you know where you suffered with Christ? (1 Peter 4:1)
I "suffered with Christ" when I was water baptized into Him and into His death. (Rom 6:3-6, Gal 5:24)
No you misunderstood
We are already in Christ
Members of Christ by sanctifying grace in baptismal regeneration
Thanks
Reject the virtue of Jesus Christ namely obedience of which scripture is replete.
Christ said “I come to do Thy will” he is our model
Faith alone?
Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior.
Give your heart to Christ.
If we have faith alone but do not suffer are we with God in heaven?
Rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
Faith without works is dead, not works alone but faith & works in grace as members of Christ
Do we put on Christ by saying so or by baptism? Gal 3:27
Do we become members of Christ and his church by saying so, or by baptism? Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 & 3:22
Acts 2:38-39 & 8:36-38
1 cor 12:13
Are our sins washed away cos we say so or by baptism? Actsv22:16
Are we sealed in the ark of salvation by saying so or by baptism? Eph 1:3
And we saved by saying so or by baptism? 1 pet 3:21
To believe is to obey to do the will of God. Obedience of faith rom 1:5 rom 16:26
Belief requires obedience, grace requires works.
Unbelief is disobedience.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Faith without works is dead, faith requires works of obedience.
A man says I believe I can cross Niagara Falls on a tight rope, does this mean he has done so?
He ask the people present if they believe he can do it, they all say yes, then he asks for a volunteer to ride on his back, nobody volunteered.
Faith requires obedience
2 cor 10:5-6
Rom 16:19
Rom 1:5 & 16:26
1 pet 1:2
Obedience is unto righteousness
Rom 6:16
Faith unto righteousness
Rom 10:10
Obedience includes suffering
Heb 5:8
Charity
Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.
1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.
If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!
If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?
Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
Deut. 6:5
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema.
Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing.
1 cor 13:12 now abide faith, hope, and charity, and the greatest of these is charity.
If salvation was by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!!!
If we are saved by faith alone then when we first believed we would be saved?
Romans 13:11
…our salvation nearer than when we believed.
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
Jesus Christ is Our salvation:
Truth / doctrine Jn 14:6
Sacrifice / sacraments Jn 1:16-17 Jn 1:29
Christ is in His person is our salvation Lk 2:30
How can it be “faith alone” Christ is not only a doctrine or set of beliefs but He is our Passover sacrifice and He is our salvation, His person, Lk 2:30 I have seen my Salvation!
We must have union with Christ by faith and baptism.
“Faith alone” condemned by sacred scripture!
Deut 6:4 love of God
Matt 19:17 commandments
Matt 16:25 lose you’re life / rev 12:11
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Matt 24:13 endure
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Rev 12:11 over cane by the blood of the Lamb not by “faith alone”
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13
Faith:
Hope:
Charity:
1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity (Deut 6:4) avails nothing!
Never “faith alone”!
Faith & Love:
Faith:
Intellectual accent to the truths revealed by Christ and taught by His church. Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Love:
Thy will be done: Matt 6:10 heb 10:9
Matt 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Must bear Fruit:
Luke 13:9
And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Jn -5:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
1 cor 13:2 not faith alone
Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
1 cor 13:13 THREE things are eternal, faith, hope, and charity.
Actual righteousness / holiness!
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Truth / doctrine Jn 14:6
Sacrifice / sacraments Jn 1:16-17 Jn 1:29
Christ is in His person is our salvation Lk 2:30
How can it be “faith alone” Christ is not only a doctrine or set of beliefs but He is our Passover sacrifice and He is our salvation, His person, Lk 2:30 I have seen my Salvation!
We must have union with Christ by faith and baptism.
“Faith alone” condemned by sacred scripture!
Deut 6:4 love of God
Matt 19:17 commandments
Matt 16:25 lose you’re life / rev 12:11
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Matt 24:13 endure
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 water & the spirit
Jn 15:4 abide in Christ
acts 2:38-39 repentance & baptism
acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
acts 22:16 name of the Lord & baptism
rom 10:10 faith & confession
1 cor 13:2 faith & charity
1 cor 13:13 faith, hope, & charity
1 cor 16:22 love of Jesus Christ
Phil 1:29 faith and suffering rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
1 thes 1:3 faith, love, patience / 2 thes 1:4 / 1 Tim 6:11 /
James 2:24 faith & works
Heb 6:12 faith & patience / rev 13:10
Rev 2:19 works, charity, service, faith, patience
Rev 12:17 testimony of Jesus & commandments
Rev 14:12 commandments & patience
Rev 12:11 over cane by the blood of the Lamb not by “faith alone”
Three things are eternal! 1 cor 13:13
Faith:
Hope:
Charity:
1 cor 13:2 even all faith without charity (Deut 6:4) avails nothing!
Never “faith alone”!
Faith & Love:
Faith:
Intellectual accent to the truths revealed by Christ and taught by His church. Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
Love:
Thy will be done: Matt 6:10 heb 10:9
Matt 21:28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Must bear Fruit:
Luke 13:9
And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
Jn -5:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
1 cor 13:2 not faith alone
Deut 6:5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
1 cor 13:13 THREE things are eternal, faith, hope, and charity.
Actual righteousness / holiness!
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Works Alone is condemned peligianism
Faith alone avails naught!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
Thanks
“Faith alone” Questions
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
“Faith alone” unbiblical!
Thanks again
where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?
1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”
Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?
Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?
They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???
When we first believed we are saved?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?
1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?
If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!
Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
“Faith alone” unbiblical!
Thanks again
Kind of simultaneous.
Water baptized into His death---suffer with Christ.
It isn't a which comes first scenario, as they happen at the same time.'
I am glad you see disobedience as a lack of faith.
Now, why is there a confessional in every catholic church?
Are they all unbelievers?
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, charity is the greatest, and yet justification/salvation is not by charity either as the Catholics claim, lol.
Catholicism is a works gospel.
Last edited:
Jethro Bodine
Member
You're confusing 'faith alone' (James 2:24), which has nothing to do with receiving the imputation of God's righteousness, with 'righteousness apart from works' (Romans 4:6), which does has everything to do with receiving the imputation of God's righteousness.
Catholics are in serious confusion about this matter. That's why the Protestants had to break away from their corruption and restore the original truth of the scriptures to the church.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes. And so is 'faith and works make you righteous' also condemned. The imputation of God's righteousness is entirely by faith in the blood of Christ.
The Catholics have confused this matter so badly. Their doctrine ruined the church until the Protestants restored the church's journey back to the real truth of scripture.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Catholics do because they say faith and works are literally one and the same thing. That's how they justify their works justification interpretation of Romans 4:6.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, that's what 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 says. And now what we await is the redemption of the body and our deliverance through the flames of the coming judgment. That is the element of our salvation yet to come.
Catholics don't get it that if they're not saved now in this age (which they say is the case) then they won't be saved when they stand before the Lord in judgement at the end of the age.
The imputation of God's righteousness is not what's getting passed out at the judgment. The redemption of the body and escape from the flames of judgement for those who already have the imputation of God's righteous by faith is what's getting passed out at the judgment.
Don't you see it the same way I do?
How can one have faith in Jesus, but still disobey Him?
Jethro Bodine
Member
Immaturity. That's how. We start out as children drinking the milk knowledge of the gospel who grow up into the meat knowledge of the word and a distinguishing of evil from good.
3For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained their senses to distinguish good from evil. Hebrews 5:13-14
If a man becomes a Christian, he already knows that Jesus is the Son of God.
Any one who believes in God won't offend Him.
I mean, He is God !
You accommodate sin with such writings.
You like Heb 5?
How about verse 9..."And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
Jethro Bodine
Member
Yes, to all that obey him according to the process of maturation from milk to meat described right there in the passage.
As no man will be tempted above that which he is able, (1 Cor 10:13), it is clear that the context of Heb 5 is something other than remaining free from sin.