Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

Skin and bones are at the discretion of the mind.
You cannot blame them for sin.

It's not so much a matter of blame as much as it as a matter of where sin comes. Obviously, sin does not come from the new nature. It comes from the flesh. But even with that being true, everybody is still responsible for their sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Does your skin and bones have more power than your, or God's, Spirit?

Yes, if you give it more power.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. Romans 6:12

That's why Paul says to reckon the body of sin dead, so it won't reign over you.

11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Romans 6:11

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Your denominations teachings say that your skin and bones can control your mind.

If you let it.
That's why Paul says to put it to death. Colossians 3:5

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I find that you see the Gal 5:17 verse through the perspective of those still serving the flesh.

You seem oblivious to the fact that the person potentially serving the flesh in Galatians 5:17 HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfil the lusts of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)
You are looking at it from the perspective of the man still lost in the flesh.

I'm looking at it from the perspective that this man HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN HIM. Galatians 5:17. A point you seem to be oblivious to.

Don't filter the word through what you think. Filter what you think through the word. You're letting a preconceived doctrine keep you from seeing the words of scripture. Genuinely born again people are not 100% sinless! At least they don't start out that way.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We do "consider it", and realize that, as men who walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh", what we "would/want" is of the Spirit.

You're twisting the verse.
It doesn't say you won't want to.
It says "you do not do what you want."

17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Galatians 5:17

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But if the flesh no longer has any bearing on your life, where is the problem?

The flesh doesn't have any bearing in your life when you remind it that it doesn't have any bearing in your life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Were that mistaken idea true, I would not be free from sin.
My drunken, drug addled self would still be calling the shots.

The power of the flesh where sin resides is what is dead. That's how it is 'dead'. It no longer has any authority over you to do what it says to do...unless you give it that authority.

12...do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. Romans 6:12

Thanks be to God for my death and burial with Jesus Christ, and for my rebirth from God's perfect seed !

Yes, thanks be to God!
It's wonderful that you don't live the life you used to, and don't have to.
I'm in no way trying to take that away from you.

I've heard many testimonies of people who have been set free from addictions the moment they were born again. And then there are some who haven't. And it is those who have to understand that doesn't mean they aren't really saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Got a scripture for that accommodation for sin?

Romans 6:12

It's not an accommodation of sin (quite the opposite, in fact). The authority of the flesh/sin is what is gone, not the flesh itself. And so the flesh is dead that way, no longer in charge and able to tell you what to do. Like a deceased husband who no longer has the authority, by reason of law, to make you do what it desires (Romans 7:1-6).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It seems you missed part of 2 Cor 5:17.
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:
old things are passed away;
behold, all things are become new."
Why do you maintain some of the old?
Why are some parts of you not made new?
Don't bother answering, as I know the answer.

No, you don't know the answer.

The presence of sin is not what is gone.
The authority of sin is what is gone.

The newness is the new mindset of the inner man. That's where you have been created anew.
And now we wait patiently for the redemption of our flesh bodies when we will receive a new body.
But until then we have to remind the body it is not in charge anymore and not let it and it's sinful desires rule over us.
The body of flesh is like a dead husband who can't make us submit to it's desires anymore and bear it's fruit.
Since it is dead it can't use the power of the law from which it drew it's authority to make us submit to it.

 

[JLB]

I'm thankful that we have his experience recorded in scripture because if it was not then EVERY church would be making water baptism a legalistic work through which one gets saved and receives the Spirit.

AMEN!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Reject the virtue of Jesus Christ namely obedience of which scripture is replete.

Christ said “I come to do Thy will” he is our model

Faith alone?
Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior.
Give your heart to Christ.
If we have faith alone but do not suffer are we with God in heaven?
Rom 8:17 2 Timothy 2:12
Faith without works is dead, not works alone but faith & works in grace as members of Christ

Do we put on Christ by saying so or by baptism? Gal 3:27
Do we become members of Christ and his church by saying so, or by baptism? Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 & 3:22
Acts 2:38-39 & 8:36-38
1 cor 12:13
Are our sins washed away cos we say so or by baptism? Actsv22:16
Are we sealed in the ark of salvation by saying so or by baptism? Eph 1:3
And we saved by saying so or by baptism? 1 pet 3:21

To believe is to obey to do the will of God. Obedience of faith rom 1:5 rom 16:26

Belief requires obedience, grace requires works.

Unbelief is disobedience.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Faith without works is dead, faith requires works of obedience.

A man says I believe I can cross Niagara Falls on a tight rope, does this mean he has done so?

He ask the people present if they believe he can do it, they all say yes, then he asks for a volunteer to ride on his back, nobody volunteered.

Faith requires obedience
2 cor 10:5-6
Rom 16:19
Rom 1:5 & 16:26
1 pet 1:2

Obedience is unto righteousness
Rom 6:16
Faith unto righteousness
Rom 10:10

Obedience includes suffering
Heb 5:8

You keep talking about suffering.
I THINK I know what you mean, but could you explain it better.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is written..."For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)
Know why they can't "repent again"?
Because they didn't repent the first time.

How can you be restored to a repentance you never had?

But you can think what you want about it. The important thing is that people realize you can't be an unrepentant unbeliever and be saved when Jesus returns.

 

[donadams]

You keep talking about suffering.
I THINK I know what you mean, but could you explain it better.

Abide in Christ Jn 15:1-5
Suffer for love of God Matt 16:24 Phil 1:29 rom 8:17
2 Corinthians 12:9 2 thes 1:5
2 tim 2:12 heb 12:4 1 pet 4:1
Union with Christ crucified
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Which comes first union with Christ or faith alone!

Thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

Abide in Christ Jn 15:1-5
Suffer for love of God Matt 16:24 Phil 1:29 rom 8:17
2 Corinthians 12:9 2 thes 1:5
2 tim 2:12 heb 12:4 1 pet 4:1
Union with Christ crucified
Thanks

No!
I mean could you explain what you mean by SUFFER, or even SUFFER WITH CHRIST.

I'm having trouble understanding this.

 

[donadams]

No!
I mean could you explain what you mean by SUFFER, or even SUFFER WITH CHRIST.

I'm having trouble understanding this.

Enduring suffering or persecution or painful experiences or daily trials with the virtue of patience in union with Christ
Thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

Enduring suffering or persecution or painful experiences or daily trials with the virtue of patience in union with Christ
Thanks

Agreed.
Thanks.
Will write more later.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No!
I mean could you explain what you mean by SUFFER, or even SUFFER WITH CHRIST.

I'm having trouble understanding this.

I purposely waited until he responded, first.
What he means is the obedience of suffering is required in order to merit salvation (among all the other things we must obey in order to merit salvation).
Ask him.
I'm confident that I accurately understand that this is what he's been saying.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks

I did not ask what you have quoted me as asking.