Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Hopeful]

If you let it.
That's why Paul says to put it to death. Colossians 3:5

Why not follow that admonission?
Put it to death !

 

[Hopeful]

You seem oblivious to the fact that the person potentially serving the flesh in Galatians 5:17 HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM.

Know ye not that to whomsoever you serve, his servant ye are? (Rom 6:16 paraphrased)
If one serves sin, he is not serving God.

 

[Hopeful]

I'm looking at it from the perspective that this man HAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD IN HIM. Galatians 5:17. A point you seem to be oblivious to.

Don't filter the word through what you think. Filter what you think through the word. You're letting a preconceived doctrine keep you from seeing the words of scripture. Genuinely born again people are not 100% sinless! At least they don't start out that way.

The Spirit will not dwell in a polluted temple .
One cannot bring the Spirit of God along in their sins.
Is Jesus' blood clean enough to wash away the sins of the world?
If you say "Yes", then those whose sins have been washed away by the blood of the perfect Lamb have no sin...at the start of their walk in the Spirit !

 

[Hopeful]

You're twisting the verse.
It doesn't say you won't want to.
It says "you do not do what you want."

17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit,

The "flesh" wants the unGodly.

and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

The Spirit wants the Godly.

They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Galatians 5:17

They are indeed opposed to one another.
I walk in the Spirit, so don't seek the things of the "fleshly" oriented man.
I can't do what "I" want, so I do the things the Spirit wants.
So can you.

 

[Hopeful]

The flesh doesn't have any bearing in your life when you remind it that it doesn't have any bearing in your life.

Use that insight for the rest of your time here.

 

[Hopeful]

The power of the flesh where sin resides is what is dead. That's how it is 'dead'. It no longer has any authority over you to do what it says to do...unless you give it that authority.
12...do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. Romans 6:12

True.

Yes, thanks be to God!
It's wonderful that you don't live the life you used to, and don't have to.
I'm in no way trying to take that away from you.

Take it to yourself !

I've heard many testimonies of people who have been set free from addictions the moment they were born again. And then there are some who haven't. And it is those who have to understand that doesn't mean they aren't really saved.

If they didn't "repent", they were not saved.

 

[Hopeful]

Romans 6:12

It's not an accommodation of sin (quite the opposite, in fact). The authority of the flesh/sin is what is gone, not the flesh itself. And so the flesh is dead that way, no longer in charge and able to tell you what to do. Like a deceased husband who no longer has the authority, by reason of law, to make you do what it desires (Romans 7:1-6).

How can something with no authority have any consequences in your life?
Walk in the Spirit from now on.

 

[Hopeful]

No, you don't know the answer.

The presence of sin is not what is gone.
The authority of sin is what is gone.

The newness is the new mindset of the inner man. That's where you have been created anew.
And now we wait patiently for the redemption of our flesh bodies when we will receive a new body.
But until then we have to remind the body it is not in charge anymore and not let it and it's sinful desires rule over us.
The body of flesh is like a dead husband who can't make us submit to it's desires anymore and bear it's fruit.
Since it is dead it can't use the power of the law from which it drew it's authority to make us submit to it.

As long as you are holding on to any part of the old, there is no new.
I am a new creature, thanks be to the grace of God.
I am Not a blend of old and new.

 

[Hopeful]

How can you be restored to a repentance you never had?

As the Heb 6 scripture said, you can't be.

But you can think what you want about it. The important thing is that people realize you can't be an unrepentant unbeliever and be saved when Jesus returns.

Agreed.

 

[GodsGrace]

The scripture records that the Ethiopian was not baptized with the Holy Spirit.

The scripture records that Phillip did indeed baptize Samaria as they received his message of salvation, but they didn’t receive the Holy Spirit under the ministry of Phillip.

The scripture records that Peter and John had to come down from Jerusalem to lay hands on them because they had only been baptized in the name of Jesus (water baptism).


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17


The point:

God chose to have Peter and John come down to lay hands on them in order for them to receive the Holy Spirit.

They did not receive the Holy Spirit at water baptism.


At the house of Cornelius, the Lord chose to baptize them with the Holy Spirit apart from the laying on of hands.

Then afterward they were baptized in water.


The common denominator in both is, the baptism with the Holy Spirit did not occur at water baptism.

How the Lord chooses to baptize people with the Spirit is up to Him.





JLB

Could you explain the laying on of hands?
I just thought of something.

Also Jethro Bodine

 

[JLB]

I cannot agree that something born of God has sin in it. (2 Cor 5:17, 1 John 3:9)
Grape seeds cannot bring forth figs, and neither can God's seed bring forth liars, thieves, or adulterers.

Our physical born has not been born again.

It’s our spirit; our inner man.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


Was your flesh reborn by the Spirit?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Cornelius is the only biblical instance of someone receiving the gift of the holy Ghost before water baptism

Yes, proving that receiving the baptism with the Spirit has nothing to do with water baptism.



JLB

 

[JLB]

So don't give it power? !
Keep sin out, and it can't "reign" !

As we see, sin remains in the physical body of baptized believers.

Paul admonishes these Christians to not let the sin that indeed is in their mortal body, have dominion (reign) over them; ie control them.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


As we see, you continually ignore the plainly stated irrefutable words of scripture.

This has nothing to do with keeping sin “out” of your physical body.

It has everything to do with not letting sin that is already in the body, reign, so that you obey its lustful cravings.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Could you explain the laying on of hands?
I just thought of something.

Also Jethro Bodine

Where a person lays there hands on a another person to bring about some blessing, healing or miracle.

And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. Acts 5:12


Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.
Acts 19:11-12


And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;… they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:17-18





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Our physical born has not been born again.

It’s our spirit; our inner man.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


Was your flesh reborn by the Spirit?



JLB

I agree with you.
But just want to say that as you study the tri dimension of man, Body, Soul, Spirit, the spirit - which is the reborn part - does affect the soul also.

I'd say it's the soul that makes us sin, or the sin nature.

 

[GodsGrace]

Where a person lays there hands on a another person to bring about some blessing, healing or miracle.

And through the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were done among the people. And they were all with one accord in Solomon’s Porch. Acts 5:12


Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them.
Acts 19:11-12


And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;… they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:17-18





JLB

Sorry J
Agreed on the above.
You were discussing the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Would you say that the powerful receiving of the Holy Spirit where tongues might manifest, is with the laying on of hands?

 

[jaybo]

Sorry J
Agreed on the above.
You were discussing the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Would you say that the powerful receiving of the Holy Spirit where tongues might manifest, is with the laying on of hands?

I received the gift of speaking in tongues without any laying on of hands. I just asked God for it and I received it.

 

[GodsGrace]

I received the gift of speaking in tongues without any laying on of hands. I just asked God for it and I received it.

You're fortunate.
We don't all get the same gifts.
Ok that helps me to understand.
I was thinking in terms of Baptism.
JLB Believes there are 3 distinct baptisms.
At times I agree with him, and at times I get confused about it. IOW, it's not absolutely clear to me.

 

[jaybo]

You're fortunate.
We don't all get the same gifts.
Ok that helps me to understand.
I was thinking in terms of Baptism.
JLB Believes there are 3 distinct baptisms.
At times I agree with him, and at times I get confused about it. IOW, it's not absolutely clear to me.

Again, when we try to apply reasoning and logic to spiritual truths, we often come up short. I don't think that spiritual truths can be simply explained, which is why Jesus taught using parables.

 

[JLB]

Sorry J
Agreed on the above.
You were discussing the receiving of the Holy Spirit.
Would you say that the powerful receiving of the Holy Spirit where tongues might manifest, is with the laying on of hands?

It was with me, however I know of others who received the baptism with the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands, like Cornelius.



JLB