Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[JLB]

I was thinking in terms of Baptism.
@JLB Believes there are 3 distinct baptisms.

The easiest way to identify the three different baptisms is by the Baptizer.

We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.
The Spirit is the Baptizer.

We are baptized in water by a person.
A human being is the baptizer.

We are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.
Jesus is the Baptizer.




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

It was with me, however I know of others who received the baptism with the Holy Spirit without the laying on of hands, like Cornelius.



JLB

I fainted once when a priest, catholic, placed his hand on my head. What do you suppose that was? Many years ago.

It was an altar call but not for salvation.
I was already saved for years.

 

[GodsGrace]

The easiest way to identify the three different baptisms is by the Baptizer.

We are baptized into Christ by the Spirit.
The Spirit is the Baptizer.

We are baptized in water by a person.
A human being is the baptizer.

We are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus.
Jesus is the Baptizer.




JLB

But all in the one time we are baptized?

 

[JLB]

I fainted once when a priest, catholic, placed his hand on my head. What do you suppose that was? Many years ago.

It was an altar call but not for salvation.
I was already saved for years.

Sometimes that happens when a person is prayed for.

 

[JLB]

But all in the one time we are baptized?

I don’t understand your question.

Do you mean we are baptized with all three at one time?

The answer is no.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t understand your question.

We're baptized one time for the forgiveness of sin, and into the Body.

When we become born again we receive the Holy Spirit.

Maybe, at some point, we receive a gift.

But water baptism is only once.
Are all 3 Persons present at this one time water baptism?

 

[GodsGrace]

I don’t understand your question.

Do you mean we are baptized with all three at one time?

The answer is no.

Oops.
Didn't see the last line...

 

[JLB]

We're baptized one time for the forgiveness of sin, and into the Body.

When we become born again we receive the Holy Spirit.

Maybe, at some point, we receive a gift.

But water baptism is only once.
Are all 3 Persons present at this one time water baptism?

When you believe in your heart and confess Jesus as Lord you are saved; born again and thereby forgiven of all your past sins, in which you are baptized by the Spirit into Christ. At this point you are joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

Now you are ready to be baptized in water.
Now you are ready for the baptism with the Spirit.

Water baptism is for those who have believed and are already saved.


The order doesn’t matter because you have the one baptism which joins you with Christ; joins you with the Spirit of life in Christ.


This is where you “know Him”; receive eternal life because you are joined to and one with eternal life.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

When you believe in your heart and confess Jesus as Lord you are saved; born again and thereby forgiven of all your past sins, in which you are baptized by the Spirit into Christ. At this point you are joined to Christ and are one spirit with Him.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

Now you are ready to be baptized in water.
Now you are ready for the baptism with the Spirit.

Water baptism is for those who have believed and are already saved.


The order doesn’t matter because you have the one baptism which joins you with Christ; joins you with the Spirit of life in Christ.


This is where you “know Him”; receive eternal life because you are joined to and one with eternal life.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3




JLB

Thanks J!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If obedience to Jesus is too legal for you, isn't your reaction "illegal"?

When justification (becoming righteous) is by works that’s called legalism. That’s the works gospel condemned in scripture.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Gal 5:16..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

And the very next verse says if you don’t walk in the Spirit that you have in you it’s because of the flesh:

17For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Galatians 5:17

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Get reborn of God's seed, and the alleged source of your sins will be gone.

The flesh and it’s desires will still be there to tempt and deceive you…if you let it. Paul says don’t let it do that. Reckon it as dead and don’t listen to it tell you it’s still in charge.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Gal 5:16 negates that thought.
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
If we are walking in the Spirit we will not act on a "fleshly" oriented mind.
Because we don't have one anymore !

You have to decide to walk according to the Spirit within you, but if you don’t it’s because the flesh is still here to walk in by default. When you don’t walk in the Spirit it’s because of the flesh that you still have. Galatians 5:17

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Keep sin out, and it can't "reign" !

But you say there is no sin present to keep out!

You can’t explain why Paul tells believers who have the Spirit that they sin because of the flesh which is opposed to the Spirit - the flesh you say is dead and gone and can’t do that.

There’s no honest way to make that verse not say what it says. The Spirit and the flesh are opposed to each other in a person, so that you don’t do what you want to do. It doesn’t get any simpler than that.

 

[Hopeful]

Our physical born has not been born again.
It’s our spirit; our inner man.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6
Was your flesh reborn by the Spirit?
JLB

Yes, my skin and bones were quickened by the Holy Spirit, (Rom 8:10-11), after their death-destruction and burial with Christ. (Rom 6:3-6)
God's seed cannot bring forth liars, thieves, or adulterers.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, proving that receiving the baptism with the Spirit has nothing to do with water baptism.



JLB

Not the order of obedience, perhaps.

 

[Hopeful]

As we see, sin remains in the physical body of baptized believers.

You have clung to a lie.

Paul admonishes these Christians to not let the sin that indeed is in their mortal body, have dominion (reign) over them; ie control them.

You are misreading it...again.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

If you don't let sin in, it can't reign.

As we see, you continually ignore the plainly stated irrefutable words of scripture.
This has nothing to do with keeping sin “out” of your physical body.
It has everything to do with not letting sin that is already in the body, reign, so that you obey its lustful cravings.

I wish you believed Col 2:11 as much as you believed that lie.
It is written..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:"
My old body of sin has been "put off" from "me".
I am now a new creature and all the old things are gone.
Just as 2 Cor 5:17 states..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

JLB

 

[Hopeful]

You have to decide to walk according to the Spirit within you, but if you don’t it’s because the flesh is still here to walk in by default. When you don’t walk in the Spirit it’s because of the flesh that you still have. Galatians 5:17

And that means you have not been reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)

 

[Hopeful]

But you say there is no sin present to keep out!

Agreed, I said it.
Sin can't "get in" unless you let it in.

You can’t explain why Paul tells believers who have the Spirit that they sin because of the flesh which is opposed to the Spirit - the flesh you say is dead and gone and can’t do that.

Where did you read that?
I read that those walking in the Spirit won't fulfil the lust of the flesh. (Gal 5:16)

There’s no honest way to make that verse not say what it says. The Spirit and the flesh are opposed to each other in a person, so that you don’t do what you want to do. It doesn’t get any simpler than that.

Where is it written that both are in person?
Choose to walk in the Spirit, and the flesh is just a vessel.
Your interpretation makes it impossible to please God; to walk in the Spirit.
Is that really what you believe?

 

[Hopeful]

When justification (becoming righteous) is by works that’s called legalism. That’s the works gospel condemned in scripture.

Where in the Law of Moses is justification by the blood of Christ ordained?
If it isn't a Mosaic Law, how can it be "legalism"?
You just want to provide a salvation without obedience...it seems.