Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[JLB]

He also used the word "IF".
"IF" we walk in darkness, juxtaposed with "IF" we walk in the light.
The outcome of each walk is very different.

Yes the outcome of walking in love and walking in hate is very different.

In the example I gave of the good Samaritan, do you believe the Samaritan was sinless or that he demonstrated love?


But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 10:33-37


JLB

 

[JLB]

You seem to be unaware of these scriptures that, hopefully, will shake you from such an abysmal belief as sin dwelling in your skin and bones.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Where is the sin, Paul exhorts water baptized Christians, to not let reign, so that we obey its lusts?

1. In our mortal body?
2. In unbelievers?
3. In our pets?
4. In our children?
5. Other; please explain

JLB

 

[JLB]

It is written..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." (1 John 1:5)
Darkness, which there isn't any of in God, is sin, according to Pro 4:19

No mention of sin in this verse.

The way of the wicked is like darkness;
They do not know what makes them stumble.
Proverbs 4:19

The way of the wicked is to hate God and hate His ways, and laws.


Walking in darkness according to the context of 1 John 1:7 is walking in hate; hating your brother.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7

Those who walk in the light, are cleansed from their sin by the blood of Jesus.

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11



JLB

 

[JLB]

Looks like you've got it !
Walk in love and there will be no more hate in you.

Yes, as long as I walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses me of all sin.


But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7


Do you think the pronouns of we and us refer to John and followers of Jesus Christ or non believers who are not born again?



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Yes the outcome of walking in love and walking in hate is very different.

In the example I gave of the good Samaritan, do you believe the Samaritan was sinless or that he demonstrated love?

It was a parable, so commenting on his sinlessness is moot.
Very few in the OT could be sinless, until Jesus.
Thankfully though, we can all be sinless now !

 

[Hopeful]

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Where is the sin, Paul exhorts water baptized Christians, to not let reign, so that we obey its lusts?

1. In our mortal body?
2. In unbelievers?
3. In our pets?
4. In our children?
5. Other; please explain

Keep sin out and it won't be able to reign.
It can't be in our "mortal body" because it is Christ's body, the vessel of the Holy Ghost.

Didn't you look at all the scriptures I provided yesterday? (Post 1155)
How can sin exist in someone who has: cast off the old man, is full of the fullness of God, been forgiven of past sins, has after God been recreated in righteousness and true holiness, and has been sanctified, is without spot or blemish, has put on Christ, still carrying sin around in them?
Can't happen.

 

[Hopeful]

No mention of sin in this verse.

Just darkness, which the prophet likens to the way of the wicked.

The way of the wicked is like darkness;
They do not know what makes them stumble.
Proverbs 4:19
The way of the wicked is to hate God and hate His ways, and laws.

Sinfulness is the "way of the wicked".

Walking in darkness according to the context of 1 John 1:7 is walking in hate; hating your brother.

True, and they cannot say they have fellowship with God or that they have no sin.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
Those who walk in the light, are cleansed from their sin by the blood of Jesus.

Why can't the "cleansed" say they have no sin?

• If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8

True, for those in sin.
But those walking in the light aren't in sin.
There can be no sin/darkness in the light/God.

He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11

"...no cause of stumbling" !

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, as long as I walk in the light, the blood of Jesus cleanses me of all sin.

If you remain in the light, no darkness can exist.
There will be no need of further cleansing.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
Do you think the pronouns of we and us refer to John and followers of Jesus Christ or non believers who are not born again?

Depends on which verses you refer to.
Verses 5, 7, and 9 refer to those either in, or moving toward, the light.
Confession, (v9), comes before baptism in the blood of Christ for the remission of past sins. (v7).
Verses 6, 8, and 10 refer to people who are still in darkness, sin, and are unbeliever's.

 

[Hopeful]

The righteous do the "works" of those made righteous.
Those made righteous have done the "works" to be made righteous.
None of which are of the Law that Paul wrote about.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, it is addressed to believers, but it is about two different kinds of life.
One walked in the Spirit juxtaposed with one walked in the "flesh".
One walked in unison of Jew and Gentile, juxtaposed with a walk of division between them.
One walked in the Law, juxtaposed with a life walked in the Spirit by faith.
Not every part of most epistles applies to every convert.

Like 1 John 1, wherein John addresses those who walk in the light, which is God, juxtaposed with those who walk in darkness, which is sin.

We do need instruction.

Galatians 5:16-24
16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
19Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Here's my understanding:
Paul is saying that it is POSSIBLE for us believers to carry out the desires of the flesh.
He's saying NOT to live this way. The spirit and the flesh oppose each other so that we MAY carry out the desire of the flesh, which we should not desire. He says that we may not do the things that we please.

If we are under the spirit, we are no longer under the Law of Moses. Once we know all the laws/rules of Jesus, we will be guided by the Holy Spirit.

Then Paul goes on to list the deeds of the flesh so we can be AWARE of them.

And, yes, I do agree that we need instruction...at least until we are mature Christians...
if this even happens, I'm not sure --- sanctification is an ongoing process and it most probably lasts our entire life.

I think as we walk in the spirit we become more and more sensitive to sin, and thus we will be sinning less and less.

 

[JLB]

If you remain in the light, no darkness can exist.
There will be no need of further cleansing.

Those who walk in the light, are the ones who are cleansed from all sin.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7


JLB

 

[JLB]

Depends on which verses you refer to.

Actually verse 7 is the verse quoted.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7


Those who walk in the light are the ones who have fellowship, and are the ones who are cleansed from sin.


JLB

 

[JLB]

It was a parable, so commenting on his sinlessness is moot.
Very few in the OT could be sinless, until Jesus.
Thankfully though, we can all be sinless now !

So you believe Jesus was teaching Old Testament principles to His disciples or New Testament principles?



JLB

 

[JLB]

It was a parable, so commenting on his sinlessness is moot.
Very few in the OT could be sinless, until Jesus.
Thankfully though, we can all be sinless now !

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

Where is the sin, Paul exhorts water baptized Christians, to not let reign, so that we obey its lusts?

1. In our mortal body?
2. In unbelievers?
3. In our pets?
4. In our children?
5. Other; please explain

 

[GodsGrace]

When you talk to Catholics they tell you that faith is work. And so salvation is by faith and works. It's a tricky little twist of what I consider to be a very deceitful religion. I discovered by talking to Catholics how it is that we Protestants have put up with them as if they believe the essential truths we do. They do not.

Uffa Jethro.
How is it a deceitful religion if I posted stuff that the Catholic church teaches and it states that we are saved by FAITH ALONE.

I guess you could believe what Catholics tell you they think is right,
or you could believe what the CC teaches and which may be misunderstood.
You and I talk about works all the time, but they come AFTER salvation.

I tried the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is official teaching.
Now I'll try YouTube.

This is Dr. Scott Hahn. One of the top apologists for the CC.
I'll also post Jimmy Aikin. Ditto.

 

[donadams]

What do you go by?
You could PM if you prefer.

Don

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How is it a deceitful religion if I posted stuff that the Catholic church teaches and it states that we are saved by FAITH ALONE.

Because they redefine faith to mean faith and works. And so when they say faith they mean faith and works. But you don't know that until you engage them in discussion. Which few Protestants do, and so we are deceived into thinking it's a religion that pretty much believes what we do, and so we tolerate them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I guess you could believe what Catholics tell you they think is right,
or you could believe what the CC teaches and which may be misunderstood.
You and I talk about works all the time, but they come AFTER salvation.

Perhaps Catholics do misrepresent Catholocism in online discussions. That has crossed my mind, but they are so adamant about being perfectly unified in doctrine and theology that I do receive them as being truly representative of Catholic doctrinal beliefs.

From now on I will tag you in any discussion I have with a a Catholic that I feel needs fact checking.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

wondering , the whole Prostent Reformation is based on Luther's revelation of justification by faith, not works, and so I'm cornfuzzled as to why any Catholic would seek to assert they also believe as Luther did about faith.

 

[GodsGrace]

Perhaps Catholics do misrepresent Catholocism in online discussions. That has crossed my mind, but they are so adamant about being perfectly unified in doctrine and theology that I do receive them as being truly representative of Catholic doctrinal beliefs.

From now on I will tag you in any discussion I have with a a Catholic that I feel needs fact checking.

Perfectly unified.
Right.
Yeah .
OK.