Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[jaybo]

I disagree with the first part of that.
Men are servants of whom they serve. (Rom 6:16)

That part of Rom 7 described Paul's preconversion life while trying to satisfy God by obeying the Law.

All sin is willful. (James 1:14-15)

So apparently Paul didn't know what he was writing about when he wrote, " "But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me."

Should I believe you or the great apostle? Unsaved people are incapable of defeating their sin nature. That is why there is a need for a Savior.

Why do you not believe that every person inherited Adam's sin nature?

It is really odd that you cited James 1:14-15. Here are those verses, "But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; then, when desire has conceived, it engenders sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death." How is being "lured and enticed" the same as "willful"?

 

[GodsGrace]

So apparently Paul didn't know what he was writing about when he wrote, " "But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me."

Should I believe you or the great apostle? Unsaved people are incapable of defeating their sin nature. That is why there is a need for a Savior.

Why do you not believe that every person inherited Adam's sin nature?

It is really odd that you cited James 1:14-15. Here are those verses, "But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; then, when desire has conceived, it engenders sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death." How is being "lured and enticed" the same as "willful"?

Good point !

 

[Hopeful]

He must have been mistaken in
John 20:23

I'm not sure what your supplied verse has to do with serving/committing sin.

 

[Hopeful]

So apparently Paul didn't know what he was writing about when he wrote, " "But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me. For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For I want to do the good, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but I do the very evil I do not want! Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer me doing it but sin that lives in me."

Paul was lamenting his past while unsuccessfully trying to satisfy the Law.
The law of sin he mentions in Rom 7:23 has been conquered by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:2)

Should I believe you or the great apostle? Unsaved people are incapable of defeating their sin nature. That is why there is a need for a Savior.

Agreed !
So why is it so odd that He had done exactly that for me?
The truth had freed me from service to sin. (John 8:34)

Why do you not believe that every person inherited Adam's sin nature?

All men were "born of Adam", but Christians have "been reborn of God's seed".
Adam has no more influence on those who have destroyed the old man. (Rom 6:6)

It is really odd that you cited James 1:14-15. Here are those verses, "But one is tempted by one’s own desire, being lured and enticed by it; then, when desire has conceived, it engenders sin, and sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death." How is being "lured and enticed" the same as "willful"?

Can you not resist a lure or enticement?
Without the lure, enticement, temptation, and conception there is no sin.
How can all of that happen and the sin be accidental or unknown?
Even temptation can be resisted, as James wrote..."Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

 

[JLB]

Yep, just like Jesus.

Your indenial because you reject what the scriptures teach.


No your body is not just like Jesus.

Your body will be like Jesus at His coming, when He resurrects the dead in Christ.

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 John 3:2-3



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Most Catholics don't know their faith.
They're not accustomed to bible study.

Oh, that's right.
Online Catholics are always mocking us Protestants for our Bible studies, lol.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He was justified (declared to be right with God; righteous) by faith;
by the obedience of faith.

Yes, but do you mean he was justified as in he became righteous by walking in the obedience of his faith, or do you mean he was justified as in he was shown to be righteous by walking in the obedience of his faith?

 

[JLB]

Yes, but do you mean he was justified as in he became righteous by walking in the obedience of his faith, or do you mean he was justified as in he was shown to be righteous by walking in the obedience of his faith?

The scripture I quoted from Genesis 12 refers to justification; declared to be righteous.

Was there a time before Genesis 12 where Abraham was justified?


JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Your indenial because you reject what the scriptures teach.

I am free from sin because I believe what the scriptures teach.

No your body is not just like Jesus.

My body is His now.
As Paul wrote in Gal 2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
He also wrote..."For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)
I urge you to do likewise.

Your body will be like Jesus at His coming, when He resurrects the dead in Christ.

The condition of the vessel of the Holy Spirit doesn't impinge on my ability to remain faithful to my Savior.
Why does yours?

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 John 3:2-3

I thank God for making me pure.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where?

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues d ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
1 Corinthians 12:27-31

It's a rhetorical question. The answer is, NO. Not all in the body of Christ speak in tongues.

Of course, that's not good enough for you, right?

One has this gift, another has tongues, all distributed to each one as he determines:

8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The scripture I quoted from Genesis 12 refers to justification; declared to be righteous.

I'm asking you, does 'declared to be righteous' (justified) mean he became righteous through his works, or does 'declared to be righteous' (justified) mean he was shown to be righteous by his works?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

"It" does work both ways, as those walking in the Spirit cannot do the the things of the flesh and those walking in the flesh cannot do the things of the Spirit.
Just as Gal 5:16 stated.

You can not walk in the Spirit and walk in the flesh at the same time. But that does not mean you can't walk in the flesh. It just means you can't walk in both at the same time.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The "truth" you present demands disobedience to God.

It doesn't demand it. It acknowledges the fact that the born again person grows up out of sin and does not start out perfectly sinless.

I think you believe you are perfectly sinless because you think you have to be perfectly sinless to be considered born again.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The temptations are their, but I am not interested in satisfying them.
My fleshly oriented mind was destroyed at my water baptism into Christ's death.
I have a Spiritually oriented mind now, thanks be to God.

If your flesh was really dead it would not be alive to tempt you.

 

[JLB]

I am free from sin because I believe what the scriptures teach.

A person in this life is free from sin if they confess their sin.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


Of course God does not want us to sin, but if we should sin, we can confess our sin and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

• And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

“Our” sins refers to John the Apostle, and Christians.

The world refers to the world of unsaved people.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

A person in this life is free from sin if they confess their sin.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


Of course God does not want us to sin, but if we should sin, we can confess our sin and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

• And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

“Our” sins refers to John the Apostle, and Christians.

The world refers to the world of unsaved people.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16





JLB

Good point !
If we confess our sins every day, because we probably sin every day - even when we don't know about it -
then we are, in effect, without sin.

I don't understand how anyone can believe they're without sin.
It makes me believe that they are not sensitive enough to what sin is.

 

[JLB]

I'm asking you, does 'declared to be righteous' (justified) mean he became righteous through his works, or does 'declared to be righteous' (justified) mean he was shown to be righteous by his works?

He became righteous not by his “works”, but by obeying the voice of the Lord; the obedience of faith.


Faith can never justify anyone all by itself apart from the action of obedience.

Faith all by itself is dead.

The thing that faith must have in order for faith to be complete, is the corresponding action of obedience.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


Not good works
Not work that earns
Not the works of the law
Not Sacraments

The work or action of obedience; the obedience of faith


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


Everyone that operated in faith did so by obeying the voice of the Lord, the voice or word of God that produces faith in the one who hears.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is the obedient response to the Gospel command repent.

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Good point !
If we confess our sins every day, because we probably sin every day - even when we don't know about it -
then we are, in effect, without sin.

I don't understand how anyone can believe they're without sin.
It makes me believe that they are not sensitive enough to what sin is.

Well said dear lady. Well said.


Their heart has been hardened by the very sin they claim not to have.


but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Hebrews 3:13





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not sure what your supplied verse has to do with serving/committing sin.

I know you don't Hopeful.
This is the problem.
IF JESUS made a solution for sinning,
it must surely mean that He knew we would sin.

Do some studying of the early church.
It would help you a lot - and all Christians, not just you.

 

[Highway54]

James chapter 2 verse 24 seems to show that you have to have works for your faith in order to be saved. People who claim to believe faith alone but they say that this faith must have works in it, but however that automatically contradicts James 2:24 "..a man is justified and not by faith only", so then this passage talks about faith and works, not faith alone that really works, that's contradictory!

Answer: James 2:24 is not for the Christian Church, that's the solution, it's for Tribulation Jews! - Dr. Gene Kim

Watch the bible study video here: https://www.pass-a-gospel-tract.club/post/does-james-2-teach-works-for-salvation

James 1:1 KJV​

“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.”

James 5:3 KJV​

“Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.”

Which is supported by the Book of Revelation

Revelation 7:4 KJV​

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

Since the law covenant ended with Jesus, similar to today many believe that belief alone in Jesus will save them. Jesus brother James addressed it to them at the time. Christians were given an assignment right before Jesus returned to heaven, and we would continue in that assignment until his return to end this world Mat 28:19,20; 24:14. Most overlook Mat 7:21-23 that shows works are necessary, and not works we choose to do, but those of the will of God. We must worship in the way God has shown us in His word.

True Christians are not Sunday pew sitters, but are active ministers declaring the Kingdom of God.