Bible Study Does James 2 Teach Works for Salvation?

[Jethro Bodine]

He became righteous not by his “works”, but by obeying the voice of the Lord; the obedience of faith.


Faith can never justify anyone all by itself apart from the action of obedience.

Faith all by itself is dead.

The thing that faith must have in order for faith to be complete, is the corresponding action of obedience.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


Not good works
Not work that earns
Not the works of the law
Not Sacraments

The work or action of obedience; the obedience of faith


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


Everyone that operated in faith did so by obeying the voice of the Lord, the voice or word of God that produces faith in the one who hears.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is the obedient response to the Gospel command repent.

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

You believe a works gospel.
A person becomes righteous through the forgiveness of sin, not by merit of doing righteous things.

 

[GodsGrace]

Since the law covenant ended with Jesus, similar to today many believe that belief alone in Jesus will save them. Jesus brother James addressed it to them at the time. Christians were given an assignment right before Jesus returned to heaven, and we would continue in that assignment until his return to end this world Mat 28:19,20; 24:14. Most overlook Mat 7:21-23 that shows works are necessary, and not works we choose to do, but those of the will of God. We must worship in the way God has shown us in His word.

True Christians are not Sunday pew sitters, but are active ministers declaring the Kingdom of God.

This is true.
Jesus left us with commandments.
Commandments means that we have work to do for God here on earth.
This is what it mean to be a part of the Kingdom of God.
Jesus meant for it to begin here -
He said we're to love God,
our neighbors, and ourselves.

 

[GodsGrace]

You believe a works gospel.
A person becomes righteous through the forgiveness of sin, not by merit of doing righteous things.

What's a WORKS GOSPEL?

Are you talking about before or after salvation??

 

[jaybo]

Since the law covenant ended with Jesus, similar to today many believe that belief alone in Jesus will save them. Jesus brother James addressed it to them at the time. Christians were given an assignment right before Jesus returned to heaven, and we would continue in that assignment until his return to end this world Mat 28:19,20; 24:14. Most overlook Mat 7:21-23 that shows works are necessary, and not works we choose to do, but those of the will of God. We must worship in the way God has shown us in His word.

True Christians are not Sunday pew sitters, but are active ministers declaring the Kingdom of God.

How do you know what "many believe"? And who are you to declare what "most" overlook? And who are you to declare who is a "true Christian" and who is not? Why are you judging your brothers and sisters in Christ, 99.99% of whom you don't even know?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What's a WORKS GOSPEL?

Are you talking about before or after salvation??

'Works gospel' is generally understood among Christians to refer to a gospel, another gospel, in which a person performs commanded righteous deeds/rituals in order to be declared righteous by God. Paul said that is a false gospel and can not justify anyone.

A person can become entwined in the works gospel mentality before or after salvation. For example, the Galatians were overcome by it after they had believed and received Paul's gospel.

 

[GodsGrace]

'Works gospel' is generally understood among Christians to refer to a gospel, another gospel, in which a person performs commanded righteous deeds/rituals in order to be declared righteous by God. Paul said that is a false gospel and can not justify anyone.

A person can become entwined in the works gospel mentality before or after salvation. For example, the Galatians were overcome by it after they had believed and received Paul's gospel.

I also understand a works gospel to be one that states that our works will make us saved.
But I don't know any denomination that teaches this...
AFTER salvation, I do believe good works are actually required.
Before salvation, they have no value....the person is lost anyway since they don't have faith.

 

[jaybo]

I also understand a works gospel to be one that states that our works will make us saved.
But I don't know any denomination that teaches this...
AFTER salvation, I do believe good works are actually required.
Before salvation, they have no value....the person is lost anyway since they don't have faith.

I can never figure out what "works" means. Of course, after being saved, you just sit around "patting yourself on the back" saying to yourself, "Well I made it" then I don't think that's appropriate. But what "works" are required? If an old person with many physical ailments "works" by fervently praying for others, isn't that acceptable? Also, not everyone has the means and opportunity to do "works" beyond doing what is necessary to survive.

When one is filled with the Spirit then s/he will do what s/he can to make life better for everyone, even if s/he is incapable of doing "works", as people normally understand the term.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

AFTER salvation, I do believe good works are actually required.

But not to become righteous in God's sight. That happens entirely by faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin, apart from works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I also understand a works gospel to be one that states that our works will make us saved.

Yes, that is the works gospel.

 

[Hopeful]

27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues d ? Do all interpret? 31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
1 Corinthians 12:27-31

You do see that the tongues of verse 30 is plural, and as it is just after Paul wrote of "diverse kinds of tongues" in verse 10, it is clear that some can speak in more than one "tongue".
This is foreign language tongues, and not prayer to God tongues.

It's a rhetorical question. The answer is, NO. Not all in the body of Christ speak in tongues.
Of course, that's not good enough for you, right?

No, as it would vary from scriptural truth.

One has this gift, another has tongues, all distributed to each one as he determines:

"Diverse kinds of tongues" is different than the tongues confirming conversion, like Cornelius' household and the twelve at Ephesus received.

8To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. b 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
1 Corinthians 12:8-11

 

[Hopeful]

You can not walk in the Spirit and walk in the flesh at the same time.

Correcto !

But that does not mean you can't walk in the flesh.

You can't walk in the flesh if you are walking in the Spirit, as the flesh was destroyed, circumcised, and crucified.

It just means you can't walk in both at the same time.

You are proffering a doctrine of multiple rebirths.
I won't entertain such nonsense.
If one has been reborn of God's seed, the old man of the flesh is dead.

 

[Hopeful]

It doesn't demand it. It acknowledges the fact that the born again person grows up out of sin and does not start out perfectly sinless.

It would also show John was lying in 1 John 3:9-10.
He wrote that God's seed cannot bear liars, thieves, or murderers.
You are writing that God's seed will bring forth the devil's fruit.

I think you believe you are perfectly sinless because you think you have to be perfectly sinless to be considered born again.

I know it.
To be born again, the old man must die.

 

[Hopeful]

If your flesh was really dead it would not be alive to tempt you.

It is dead, and can't tempt me.
The vessel of the Holy Spirit that I walk around in since my rebirth isn't interested in murdering or stealing.
I have been granted the mind of Christ, (1 Cor 2:16), and a divine nature, (2 Peter 1:4), as a new creature. (2 Cor 5:17)

 

[Hopeful]

A person in this life is free from sin if they confess their sin.

I did, and maintained my walk in the light since then.

Of course God does not want us to sin, but if we should sin, we can confess our sin and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I will remain in the light so I don't commit any more hateful acts against my Lord.

• And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

“Our” sins refers to John the Apostle, and Christians.

He was the propitiation for my sins when I became a Christian.

The world refers to the world of unsaved people.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Joh

Any person who really believes in God, will never "cross" Him.

 

[Hopeful]

Good point !
If we confess our sins every day, because we probably sin every day - even when we don't know about it -
then we are, in effect, without sin.

I don't understand how anyone can believe they're without sin.

Didn't you just illustrate how you think it can be done?
Don't you believe yourself?

It makes me believe that they are not sensitive enough to what sin is.

If one need to confess sins everyday, how can one say one are walking in God/light? (1 John 1:6)

 

[Hopeful]

I know you don't Hopeful.
This is the problem.
IF JESUS made a solution for sinning,
it must surely mean that He knew we would sin.

Jesus is the solution for sinning.
Turn from sin and get baptized into Him and into His death and burial and one will be raised with Him to walk in newness of life.
The newborn's life is without sin, as the old man's flesh has been killed so we can walk in the Spirit.

Do some studying of the early church.
It would help you a lot - and all Christians, not just you.

The only writings from the early church are in the bible.

 

[Hopeful]

Since the law covenant ended with Jesus, similar to today many believe that belief alone in Jesus will save them. Jesus brother James addressed it to them at the time. Christians were given an assignment right before Jesus returned to heaven, and we would continue in that assignment until his return to end this world Mat 28:19,20; 24:14. Most overlook Mat 7:21-23 that shows works are necessary, and not works we choose to do, but those of the will of God. We must worship in the way God has shown us in His word.

True Christians are not Sunday pew sitters, but are active ministers declaring the Kingdom of God.

Right on !
Welcome to the site !

 

[Highway54]

Right on !
Welcome to the site !

Thank you sir, having a bit of trouble navigating it. Others I have been on send me an email taking me to replies to me, is there a way to do that here as well that you know of?

 

[Highway54]

This is true.
Jesus left us with commandments.
Commandments means that we have work to do for God here on earth.
This is what it mean to be a part of the Kingdom of God.
Jesus meant for it to begin here -
He said we're to love God,
our neighbors, and ourselves.

Hi Wonder, what are some other commandments that we are to obey sir?

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Wonder, what are some other commandments that we are to obey sir?

I'm a girl.
You've read the New Testament?
You didn't catch any commands in there?