F
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More falsehood...Benoni said:
Again READERS see page 1 here for my responses that present scripture...
Here are links....
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Again READERS see page 1 here for my responses that present scripture...
Here are links....
Sciptures Please?
Its getting a bit irritating that DaveSlayer had to do this again. We just got this all settled down and DS had to create yet ANOTHER thread on this same blasted topic.
I wish you guys would do something about it like making thread OPs have to be more than one or two sentences or something.
Its getting ridiculous and I know that certain members here cant help but fall into it again leaving me to have to do the ENTIRE debate all over again....[/quote:1li9sodg]
Thanks Rick. I'll give it a shot.follower of Christ said:[quote="Rick W":1li9sodg]Ok fellas. Address the topic and not each other please.
Its getting a bit irritating that DaveSlayer had to do this again. We just got this all settled down and DS had to create yet ANOTHER thread on this same blasted topic.
I wish you guys would do something about it like making thread OPs have to be more than one or two sentences or something.
Its getting ridiculous and I know that certain members here cant help but fall into it again leaving me to have to do the ENTIRE debate all over again....[/quote:1li9sodg]
I am not going back and read this garbage either you post or leave.
follower of Christ said:More falsehood...Benoni said:Don't talk about the scriptures you never give post them.
Again READERS see page 1 here for my responses that present scripture...
Here are links....
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39779#p479694
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39779#p479696
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39779#p479697
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39779#p479699
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=39779#p479700
F
follower of Christ
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pathetic.Benoni said:Sciptures Please?
READERS SEE the scriptures provided in the following links on page 1 of this very thread...
F
follower of Christ
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Then dont whine about it and dont claim that I havent posted scripture again.Benoni said:I am not going back and read this garbage
When you own this forum then you can tell me to leave.either you post or leave.
I posted the material...
Im not going to spam this board because you are too lazy to page back and read ....
F
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- #27
Stop bearing false witness.Benoni said:Stop play games.
Again....
I waiting for you to be anykind of witness; debate or get ff the horse.
The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture.
It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word. God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.
Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day
1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag
Jeremiah 18:2
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Romans 9:12 It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [1] relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).) 14 What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?
The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture.
It is not a matter of freewill; (we are saved by grace not freewill) free will is a non scriptural word. God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.
Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws
(drag Greek) him, and I will raise him up at the last day
1670 helkuo (hel-koo'-o); drag
Jeremiah 18:2
4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Romans 9:12 It was said to her that the elder [son] should serve the younger [son]) 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated (held in [1] relative disregard in comparison with My feeling for Jacob).) 14 What shall we conclude then? Is there injustice upon God's part? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion (pity) on whom I will have compassion.) 16 So then [God's gift] is not a question of human will and human effort, but of God's mercy. [It depends not on one's own willingness nor on his strenuous exertion as in running a race, but on God's having mercy on him.] 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have raised you up for this very purpose of displaying My power in [dealing with] you, so that My name may be proclaimed the whole world over. 18 So then He has mercy on whomever He wills (chooses) and He hardens (makes stubborn and unyielding the heart of) whomever He wills. 19 You will say to me, Why then does He still find fault and blame us [for sinning]? For who can resist and withstand His will? 20 But who are you, a mere man, to criticize and contradict and Why have you made me thus? 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same mass (lump) one vessel for beauty and distinction and honorable use, and another for menial or ignoble and dishonorable use?
follower of Christ said:Stop bearing false witness.Benoni said:Stop play games.
Again....
F
follower of Christ
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- Thread starter
- #30
Again, I have posted my evidence already...Benoni said:I waiting for you to be anykind of witness; debate or get ff the horse.
Fallacious nonsense.The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture.
H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a
Certainly is. When God draws man has a choice to make...It is not a matter of freewill;
>>>> DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?
Both are required.(we are saved by grace not freewill)
Falsehood.free will is a non scriptural word.
Again...
H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a
Fallacious. God word shows VERY clearly that man CAN reject God...God call/calls/draws/drags people which is totally contrary to the religious man made doctrine from Rome. God draws us or if you dig a little harder He drags us; there is NO FREE WILL when you are being drawn or dragged in fact it totally to the contrary.
DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?
Wm Tipton
Assertions/Conclusions of this article
Simply to show that scripture does support the idea that man does have free will to reject God both before and after having come under this covenant.
Supporting Evidence
See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)
how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21
The statement "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" is entirely absurd *IF* 'them' had not actually 'draw back' to perdition.For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:26-39 KJV)
And the writers EXHORTATION TO these believing Hebrews is VOID of ANY and ALL meaning in REFERRING to these who had 'DRAWN BACK' in his warning to these believers *IF* they could not do the very same thing.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame . For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
(Heb 6:4-9 KJV)
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(Heb 3:1-19 KJV)
H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a
I have already addressed the Freewill Offereing in the OT. I am not talking about an OT feast; we are speaking about man having a freewill or choice towards his own salvation. This word is not even relavant unless you can place it in a verse in the NT; salvation comes thought the blood of Jesus not the OT freewill offering.
F
follower of Christ
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- Thread starter
- #32
I have already addressed the Freewill Offereing in the OT. I am not talking about an OT feast;
And had you actually READ my post youd see that the word goes BEYOND the offering.
The 'free will' offering was mentioned a time or two in scripture, so I got to looking to see if this word was presented in any context other than an offering
Oddly there are verses that contain it that show it relating to God....and some also to MAN outside of offerings..H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a
"People shall be WILLING".Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:3 KJV)
Same root word "nedâbâh" that is used for free will offerings in many other verses.
Apparently even OUTSIDE of offerings the word IS USED concerning man.
And what is interesting in the passage above is how the word is used and what the verse says.
Just as PAUL shows in Romans 6, we willingly SUBMIT ourselves....A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:1-3 KJV)
His people WILLINGLY subject themselves to His rule. They dont have to be forced as some falsely preach here.
The word is also used here in reference to GOD whom we KNOW has free will....
In the SAME manner that GOD FREELY loves them MAN can FREELY be willing to subject himself to Gods rule...I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
(Hosea 14:4 KJV)
Certainly is. When God draws man has a choice to make...
Based on what do you make this assuption? The word draw has nothing to do with you inserting the word freewill or choice. In fact the words freewill or choice are totally contrary to the word draw. The word draw is used eight times in the NT and bever does it speak of choice or freewill.
What The words translated "draw" and "drew" in the Greek New Testament are HELKUO and HELKO. Each of these words has the basic meaning of "compel ... .. draw," "pull," and "tug." In most instances the force which does the drawing or compelling is sufficient to cause the object of the drawing to respond fully. For example, in Jn. 18:10, it is said that "Peter having a sword DREW it..." The impetuous disciple most assuredly did not draw the weapon out of its sheath in a gingerly or wooing fashion. Nor did the sword seek to draw itself out by its own will and good pleasure! Peter didn't merely "invite" the sword to come out, in spite of any resistance the blade may have had as it dragged the leather scabbard, the muscular arm of Peter yanked it forcefully out in obedience to his will.
The words HELKO and HELKUO may be found eight times in the Greek New Testament. I have already mentioned the passage in which Peter forcibly drew his sword from its sheath to cut off the ear of Malchus. Other passages contain the idea of force connected with this word, such as in Jn. 21:6, where we find that the load of fish was so huge that the disciples could not haul it aboard the boat. Their seasoned muscles were not able to pull such a great weight out of the water, for John says, "Now they were not able to DRAW it for the multitude of fish." Yet, a moment later, Simon Peter hauls the net through the water and up to the shore. This again is referred to as "drawing" the netload of fish with a force that is not resisted.
When the apostle James wishes to describe the manner in which rich men forcibly drag those who are indebted to them to prison, he uses the word HELKO. In James 2:6 he writes, "Do not rich men oppress you and DRAW you before the judgment seats?" This "drawing," of course, was not with wooing or pleading! It was an act of force that absolutely took no care of the willingness of the person drawn! The poor man might resist ever so much, and he might cry and plead, but he was drawn irresistibly to the place of judgment! It is with precisely this kind of forceful drawing that the Lord Jesus is talking when He says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will DRAW all drawn unto me!" And, thank God, they are not just drawn "toward" Him, but UNTO HIM --all the way! Because the Christ was "lifted up" on the cross of Calvary, dying on behalf of every man of Adam's race, the promise is sure, He will inexorably DRAW all men unto Himself! The divine plan calls for the Church, the body of Christ, to be drawn to Him in this age, all the living nations of the world to be drawn to Him in the next age, and the remainder of men, all who have ever lived and died upon this planet in the ages to come.
Another example of the use of the Greek work HELKO which shows that the drawing is by force and in spite of the resistance of the one drawn, is in Acts 16:19. When Paul and Silas were vexed by the demonic slave girl, Paul cast the evil spirit out of her. Her masters saw that all hope of profit was gone, so they grabbed the two servants of Jesus and forcibly dragged them to the judges in the market place. We read: "And when her masters saw that the hope of their gain was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and DREW them into the market place unto the rulers." This was not an act in which the persons drawn delighted to cooperate. No, it was an act of force which "compelled" them to go where they would not have preferred to go! So it is with man who is spiritually dead and happy to follow the devil to hell because he prefers darkness to light. He does not "come to Jesus" of his own "free will." If he has eyes to see and ears to hear the Lord it is because God has quickened his spirit and opened his spiritual sight and unplugged his spiritual ears, as it is written, "The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them! " (Prov. 20:12).
Still another instance in which the Greek word HELKO is translated "draw," when it refers to taking by force and overcoming all resistance, is Acts 21:30. Paul is seen in the temple at Jerusalem, and the Jews are so aroused by the presence of this apostle of Jesus that they incite the mob to lynch him if at all possible. They did not gently invite him to "please leave," nor did they "lovingly" draw him out of the place. No, they grabbed him forcibly, determined to haul him out of their holy house. The Scripture declares that "All the city was moved, and the people ran together; and they took Paul, and DREW him out of the temple, and at once the doors were shut." Of course he was rescued at this point by the Roman soldiers before the Jews could kill him for desecrating the temple by his presence. The point is that "draw" speaks of violence and force, not gentle persuasion.
F
follower of Christ
Guest
- Thread starter
- #34
And when scripture tells man NOT to reject salvation that conclusively PROVES that man DOES have the will to do so...Benoni said:we are speaking about man having a freewill or choice towards his own salvation.
See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)
how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)
Your bogus claim was that free will wasnt in scripture. We've proven that it is.This word is not even relavant unless you can place it in a verse in the NT;
Salvatoin comes thru the Father drawing the man, his WILLINGLY repenting and the blood of Christ being applied to his sins.salvation comes thought the blood of Jesus not the OT freewill offering.
F
follower of Christ
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- Thread starter
- #35
Certainly not based on ONE word like false teachings like to pull...Benoni said:Certainly is. When God draws man has a choice to make...
Based on what do you make this assuption?
*I* base MY views on the WHOLE, HARMONIZED word of God that shows conclusively that man DOES have a choice...
DOES man have the CHOICE to REJECT God ?
Wm Tipton
Assertions/Conclusions of this article
Simply to show that scripture does support the idea that man does have free will to reject God both before and after having come under this covenant.
Supporting Evidence
See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)
how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21
The statement "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition" is entirely absurd *IF* 'them' had not actually 'draw back' to perdition.For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:26-39 KJV)
And the writers EXHORTATION TO these believing Hebrews is VOID of ANY and ALL meaning in REFERRING to these who had 'DRAWN BACK' in his warning to these believers *IF* they could not do the very same thing.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame . For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
(Heb 6:4-9 KJV)
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(Heb 3:1-19 KJV)
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:3 KJV)
What doe this have to do with salvation, it is a OT verse that has nothing to do with man having a freewill to save himself.
.
A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:1-3 KJV)
Again what does this have to do with choosing jesus or salvation; you just looking for any verse with the word will, choice or freewill and trying to spin it to mean something it does not.
F
follower of Christ
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- Thread starter
- #38
Please.Benoni said:Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
(Psalms 110:3 KJV)
What doe this have to do with salvation, it is a OT verse that has nothing to do with man having a freewill to save himself.
YOU SAID that 'free will' doesnt exist in scripture. The word used for the FREE WILL offering is ALSO used to show conclusively that people DO have free will (ie 'willing').
Please dont pull your bait and switch nonsense with me.
NO ONE said that a man can save himself.
MOST of your posts are nothing but strawmen and red herring nonsense.
F
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Do a better job of paying attention.Benoni said:Again what does this have to do with choosing jesus or salvation;
YOU SAID free will isnt in scripture. THAT was the point with the passage and the word presented...that YOUR assertion was fallacious. Free will DOES exist in Gods word.
And you are doing your best to ignore evidence that blows your error apart at the seams.you just looking for any verse with the word will, choice or freewill and trying to spin it to mean something it does not.
Just as PAUL shows in Romans 6, we willingly SUBMIT ourselves....
His people WILLINGLY subject themselves to His rule. They dont have to be forced as some falsely preach here.
The word is also used here in reference to GOD whom we KNOW has free will....
I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
(Hosea 14:4 KJV)
No reference to salvation here; where is Romans 6 why don’t you quote it if it says what you claim?
Chapter and verse please?In the SAME manner that GOD FREELY loves them MAN can FREELY be willing to subject himself to Gods rule...