Does man have the free will choice to choose God?

[Benoni]

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;


This verse is not addressing salvation and man choosing salvation; yes carnal men can refuse salvation; but they cannot choose salvation God must draw them.

 

[follower of Christ]

I told you many time man has a freewill to reject God;

no, earlier in THIS thread you asserted that free will DOESNT exist in scripture.
So again you cant even seem to make your own doctrine very consistent.

he does not have a freewill to save himself.

NO ONE SAID he did....strawman entirely.

This verse is not addressing salvation and man choosing salvation.

The verse doesnt have to be to PROVE that man DOES have free will.

A being with free will can be offered the CHOICE to repent or rebel and make that choice when it IS offered to him when the Father draws him...

 

[follower of Christ]

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;


This verse is not addressing salvation and man choosing salvation; yes carnal men can refuse salvation; but they cannot choose salvation God must draw them.

Sorry but it IS dealing with the Hebrews who were hardhearted and trying to convince them to not continue to rebel against God.
The entire book of Hebrews is an exhortation to the Hebrews to repent and not reject/fall away (ie CHOOSE to reject salvation).

 

[Benoni]

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21

Come on? This verse can mean anything; what is the context; yes men backslide. Who knows what level of relationship they were in; they were probable never drawn or quicken; to vague.

Still does not address man being saved by freewill or choice.

 

[follower of Christ]

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2 Peter 2:21

Come on? This verse can mean anything; what is the context; yes men backslide. Who knows what level of relationship they were in; they were probable never drawn or quicken; to vague.

Oh please....
Desperation is such a pitiful thing.

The verse CANT mean anything. Its VERY clearly speaking about those who might REJECT salvation after having known the truth.
Something they do by CHOICE thru the free will given to them by their Creator.

Still does not address man being saved by freewill or choice.

yeah....it does....like it or not.
it shows that mans CHOICE and ability to choose freely does play a part in his salvation.

 

[Benoni]

Well if this is the case show me how the whole book of Hebrews has anything to do with choosing salvation?

I agree with you men can reject, neglect salvation... They cannot choose it.[/b]

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;


This verse is not addressing salvation and man choosing salvation; yes carnal men can refuse salvation; but they cannot choose salvation God must draw them.

Sorry but it IS dealing with the Hebrews who were hardhearted and trying to convince them to not continue to rebel against God.
The entire book of Hebrews is an exhortation to the Hebrews to repent and not reject/fall away (ie CHOOSE to reject salvation).

 

[Benoni]

might REJECT salvation

I told you a hundred time me can reject salvation; they cannot choose salvation like you claim. God draws them.

 

[follower of Christ]

Well if this is the case show me how the whole book of Hebrews has anything to do with choosing salvation?

I already have.
WHEN drawn by the Father the CHOICE is offered to the man.
Im sorry this is apparently so complex a concept. My 8 year old nephew figured it out first time I brought it up.

I agree with you men can reject, neglect salvation... They cannot choose it.

They certainly can and do the moment the Father draws and the choice is presented to them.
Hebrews is an exhortation to not REJECT ...

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)

 

[follower of Christ]

I told you a hundred time me can reject salvation; they cannot choose salvation like you claim. God draws them.

And Ive told you 100 times that man CAN choose when the Father draws and the option is then given to them...which is EXACTLY why the Hebrews writer encourages the Hebrews to NOT reject Him...

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)

 

[Benoni]

My point has always been man has a freewill and choice to sin; I have written paragraphs to you on this subject. Man cannot choose salvation; IS MY POINT; God must quicken him first, draw him drag him then and only then does man have a freewill so he can have faith in God. (Eph. 2)

I told you many time man has a freewill to reject God;

no, earlier in THIS thread you asserted that free will DOESNT exist in scripture.
So again you cant even seem to make your own doctrine very consistent.

he does not have a freewill to save himself.

NO ONE SAID he did....strawman entirely.
[quote:3n4cp0uo]This verse is not addressing salvation and man choosing salvation.

The verse doesnt have to be to PROVE that man DOES have free will.

A being with free will can be offered the CHOICE to repent or rebel and make that choice when it IS offered to him when the Father draws him...[/quote:3n4cp0uo]

 

[Benoni]

And Ive told you 100 times that man CAN choose when the Father draws and the option is then given to them...which is EXACTLY why the Hebrews writer encourages the Hebrews to NOT reject Him


Yes man can have faith after God draws him; but once God draws him he has no choice; for there is no choice in the word draw. Not all believers have been quicken or drawn that is why you get backsliders.

 

[follower of Christ]

My point has always been man has a freewill and choice to sin;

Shall I quote your posts earlier where you SAID CLEARLY that free will doesnt exist in scripture ???

The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture...

...free will is a non scriptural word...

H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a

I have written paragraphs to you on this subject.

As I have written

Man cannot choose salvation;

WHEN the Father draws THEN man CAN choose to repent or continue to rebel as proven by Hebrews...
>>>> http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/ ... f=30&t=181

IS MY POINT; God must quicken him first, draw him drag him then and only then does man have a freewill so he can have faith in God. (Eph. 2)

What a contradiction.
You say 'draw/drag' means 'forced' then you say the man has 'free will' in the same breath.

 

[Benoni]

Did I use scripture to make this asumption, there are other words like the curse and sin that make this point. Point being this thread is about choosing savation not choosing sin.

My point has always been man has a freewill and choice to sin;

Shall I quote your posts earlier where you SAID CLEARLY that free will doesnt exist in scripture ???

The religious word freewill; the reason I call it religious word because the word freewill is not in the scripture...

...free will is a non scriptural word...

H5071
נדב×â€
nedâbâh
BDB Definition:
1) voluntariness, free-will offering
1a) voluntariness
1b) freewill, voluntary, offering
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H5068
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1299a

[quote:35oqw3sz]I have written paragraphs to you on this subject.

As I have written

Man cannot choose salvation;

WHEN the Father draws THEN man CAN choose to repent or continue to rebel as proven by Hebrews...
>>>> http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/ ... f=30&t=181

IS MY POINT; God must quicken him first, draw him drag him then and only then does man have a freewill so he can have faith in God. (Eph. 2)

What a contradiction.
You say 'draw/drag' means 'forced' then you say the man has 'free will' in the same breath.[/quote:35oqw3sz]

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes man can have faith after God draws him; but once God draws him he has no choice;

Fallacious nonsense.
The scriptures prove that man DOES have the choice to reject. Hebrews shows conclusively that man CAN reject...

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)

how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)

for there is no choice in the word draw.

And again your game with ONE word doesnt prove anything. CONTEXT from the WHOLE word of God is what matters.

Not all believers have been quicken or drawn that is why you get backsliders.

Please....now we're being absurd.
Believers are made alive (quickened) by definition.
They are warned to not fall away...

.

 

[Benoni]

What a contradiction.
You say 'draw/drag' means 'forced' then you say the man has 'free will' in the same breath.

Your right the word faith would of been a better word. Now you just trying to play word gams to go off subject.

 

[follower of Christ]

Did I use scripture to make this asumption, there are other words like the curse and sin that make this point.

Neither of which prove your case...
Romans 8:20 >>> http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/ ... f=30&t=180

Point being this thread is about choosing savation not choosing sin.

no, this thread is about "Does man have the free will choice to choose God? What is Biblical?"

 

[Benoni]

More word games.

Yes man can have faith after God draws him; but once God draws him he has no choice;

Fallacious nonsense.
The scriptures prove that man DOES have the choice to reject. Hebrews shows conclusively that man CAN reject...

See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape, having refused Him who warned them, how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who warns from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven."
(Heb 12:25-26)

[quote:1fadedvg]how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by those who heard Him;
(Heb 2:3 MKJV)

for there is no choice in the word draw.

And again your game with ONE word doesnt prove anything. CONTEXT from the WHOLE word of God is what matters.

Not all believers have been quicken or drawn that is why you get backsliders.

Please....now we're being absurd.
Believers are made alive (quickened) by definition.
They are warned to not fall away...

.[/quote:1fadedvg]

 

[follower of Christ]

What a contradiction.
You say 'draw/drag' means 'forced' then you say the man has 'free will' in the same breath.

Your right the word faith would of been a better word. Now you just trying to play word gams to go off subject.

Please, friend....this isnt a one time thing from you or Id give you the benefit of doubt.
Dont force me to dig up the other threads and show that youve shown MORE than once that 'draw = force"....

 

[Adullam]

Even though a man can't attain to God....a man can't stay indifferent to God either. God will not force a man to follow Him. So even though a man doesn't begin by choice...he can only remain with God by choice.

 

[follower of Christ]

More word games.

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