Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[Dorothy Mae]

That sounds weird coming from somebody who talks about knowing all about God's ways, just like Moses and Abraham did.

I never said I know “all about God’s ways.” And the exchange between Jesus and the Father is not a part of God’s ways. It’s relationship and I’m not in that circle.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Not once creation was finished. The bible says God was finished and our world has living creatures that can reproduce themselves without getting their molecules from God. He finished creating molecules.

Why would he contradict the scripture he deeply respected to say something totally opposite the entire Old Testament teaching?

When we’re they destined (not pre)? When they chose not to believe:
“Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone,
a cornerstone chosen and precious,
and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

7So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe,


“The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”a
8and
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.

What’s the difference? God unjustly selecting? No, the whosoevers made choices that determine their destiny.

As soon as we chose to believe, our course was laid out. We will, if we do turn back, become like Jesus. That’s the destiny of all who choose to believe. It’s merciful to our sin but just if we refuse.

Correction: We will become like Jesus if we do NOT turn back. The all important “not” got left out. My apologies.

 

[Benadam]

When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:

I seek out, seek out after, require.

to seek the favor of God, worship him

And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !

Wasn't it in the time of Seth that man began to call on God?
Seth would be among the totally depraved?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Wasn't it in the time of Seth that man began to call on God?
Seth would be among the totally depraved?

Bf is going to write that those guys were first regenerated. No where is this promised, described or observed but it’s the only way to save the position…make up stuff. For this poster, God was regenerating millennia before Jesus. Jesus wasn’t necessarily for regeneration in that view.

 

[brightfame52]

Wasn't it in the time of Seth that man began to call on God?
Seth would be among the totally depraved?

Yes men call upon the name of the Lord after they are born again. My point has been that men naturally, unregenerate dont seek after God, thats what Paul is saying in Rom 3. Its the foundational reason why God must save people by Grace. And yes by nature seth was among the totally depraved as any other person is, a sinner !

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes men call upon the name of the Lord after they are born again. My point has been that men naturally, unregenerate dont seek after God, thats what Paul is saying in Rom 3. Its the foundational reason why God must save people by Grace. And yes by nature seth was among the totally depraved as any other person is, a sinner !

So how did “depraved” Seth seek God? Why did God praise Job if he was depraved? Doesn’t get morally lower than depraved btw.

 

[Whatever]

I never said I know “all about God’s ways.”

No, but you seemed to imply that I needed to if I claim to be a Calvinist.

 

[Whatever]

If I didn't have free will, why did Jesus die to wash away my past sins with His blood?

Because you did have the will to do what you wanted. Your sins were choices you made. Even if somebody comes up to you on the street and puts a gun in your face, you still several choices you can make. Even thought the guy with the gun is making you choose something you would never have chosen in the first place.

If everything had already, (according to some), been predetermined/preset, why go through all that suffering if it wouldn't change anything?

Because all that suffering is God's way of purifying you and making you stronger.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. 9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

Rom_5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

God has a plan for His elect. It is kind of like a reform school to build up our character. He didn't want to just make us that way in the beginning, He seemed to have wanted to make us go through all this stuff instead.

 

[brightfame52]

All men by nature dont have the ability to seek God, and they dont seek God Rom 3:11 and are in fact haters of the True God Rom 1:30

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

No doubt this is linked to the carnal mind which is enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Enmity means hostility; by implication, a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred., from another word which means:

1. hated, odious, hateful
2. hostile, hating, and opposing another
   1. used of men as at enmity with God by their sin
      1. opposing (God) in the mind

Thats just how it is ! 6

 

[brightfame52]

So how did “depraved” Seth seek God? Why did God praise Job if he was depraved? Doesn’t get morally lower than depraved btw.

Seth was born again. Once a person is made alive Spiritually, they do seek after God, the True God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Seth was born again. Once a person is made alive Spiritually, they do seek after God, the True God.

Ah, so Jesus was unnecessary to be born again. What a tangled mess of having to invent absurd positions!

 

[brightfame52]

Ah, so Jesus was unnecessary to be born again. What a tangled mess of having to invent absurd positions!

Now you making false claim I didnt make. You do that a lot. Show where I stated " Jesus was unnecessary to be born again. "

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, but you seemed to imply that I needed to if I claim to be a Calvinist.

Absolutely not. No Calvinist I ever met understands God. After looking into their theology, it’s obvious why.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Now you making false claim I didnt make. You do that a lot. Show where I stated " Jesus was unnecessary to be born again. "

Was Seth born again without Jesus having been born?

 

[brightfame52]

Was Seth born again without Jesus having been born?

Jesus created seth.

 

[Hopeful]

If no one is watching someone do something, they aren’t doing it to impress those not watching.

I didn't witness God's creation of the universe, but I am sure impressed with it.

God can and does explain himself to certain kinds of people and hides himself from others.

He doesn't hide, but is indeed hidden from those who don't seek Him.

Having the mind of Christ means think like God does.

Agreed.

 

[Hopeful]

When a man cannot answer a logical argument and decides to, instead, count the number of times a poster used first person singular as though they are egoistic, it isn’t made less of an insult by inserting “lol.” The pharisees mocked Jesus and laughed too.

As we were not conversing, my aside can hardly be considered a failure to answer any argument.
I can see my referral to your disdain of my use of the word "I", has hit a sore spot with you.
Good.

You are definitely NOT sinless. Very clear the more you write letting what is in you that hides under the fasade come out.

Some are glad you can indeed see how silly it is to denigrate someone for using the word "I".
Mission accomplished.

 

[Whatever]

And yes by nature seth was among the totally depraved as any other person is, a sinner !

Paul puts it this way:
Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Notice it says Adam was made in the image of God.
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.

Remember Seth was born after Adam sinned and God cursed or subjected everything to futility (Romans 8:20)
Futility straight from Strongs = From G3152; inutility; figuratively transientness; morally depravity: - vanity.

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

Adam = made in the likeness of God.
Seth = made in the likeness and image of fallen Adam.

So Seth was born a child of wrath, and while he was dead in his trespasses and sins, God made him alive. Therefore he called on the name of the Lord.

It is not making something up to fit our theory. It is harmonizing what the Bible teaches. The promises in the OT for a coming making of a new heart, was a corporate promise for the Ekklesia that Jesus said He would build. Read Ephesians 2:11-22. We - Jew and Gentile are both one now.

 

[brightfame52]

whatever

So Seth was born a child of wrath, and while he was dead in his trespasses and sins, God made him alive. Therefore he called on the name of the Lord.

Exactly, could not have been stated better !

It is not making something up to fit our theory. It is harmonizing what the Bible teaches. The promises in the OT for a coming making of a new heart, was a corporate promise for the Ekklesia that Jesus said He would build. Read Ephesians 2:11-22. We - Jew and Gentile are both one now.

Yes and it was retrospective, Seth partook of the New Heart, so did Abel, and all the people of faith throughout the OT. When Jesus said He would build His Church, that didnt mean it didnt already exist, it meant He would add to it, build upon it. He was always the foundation stone. The word build oikodomeō:

1. to build (up from the foundation)
2. to restore by building, to rebuild, repair

Remember James preached Acts 15:16

After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

Build again is actually the same word build in Matt 16 just with the the prep ana which means upward/up.

Thats when God begins to add the remnant gentiles to the fold Acts 15:17

that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

You know James is preaching from Amos 9

I have went off the subject a little !

 

[journeymanisnothing]

God created man in his own image to begin with and woman as the church, so the idea that people have no "natur(e)-al ability to seek God cannot be true.

In fact, the Bible warns us about forgetting God,

So remember your Creator in the days of your youth - before the difficult days come, and the years draw near when you will say, "I have no pleasure in them" Ecc.12:1