Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[heartwashed]

Psa 27:8, When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

I think that this is the key verse when applying to Calvinism's doctrine concerning this concept.

If anyone is thinking along the lines of being willing to seek the Lord, it is because the Lord has already said to that person, Seek my face.

It is therefore true that for the person whom the Lord has said, Seek my face, that they are able to seek the Lord.

I do believe that Jesus draws all men to Himself at some point in their lives.

At such a time, the person being drawn is able to seek the Lord.

At all other times, men may find that they have no desire to seek the Lord and this is because of the nature of sin that keeps them from being able to come and seek the Lord.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

Psa 27:8, When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

Thats speaking of the regenerated, those whom God has already quickened to new life, otherwise men naturally dont seek the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[heartwashed]

heartwashed



Thats speaking of the regenerated, those whom God has already quickened to new life, otherwise men naturally dont seek the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

No; it is talking about those who are being drawn to Christ; which is not the same thing as regeneration.

 

[brightfame52]

No; it is talking about those who are being drawn to Christ; which is not the same thing as regeneration.

Its speaking of those who already have been regenerated and given a new heart for the Lord. Otherwise men naturally doesnt seek after nor even understand the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And you wrong again, being drawn to Christ is a fruit of regeneration, its the power of the Spirit leading inwardly to Christ.

 

[heartwashed]

Being drawn to Christ happens to the unregenerated person.

They are enabled to receive Christ because of being drawn;

In being drawn they become able to make an informed decision either for or against Christ.

A person cannot receive Christ apart from being drawn to Him.

But a person is not saved until after he receives Christ.

He does not have the power to become a child of God until then (John 1:12).

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

Being drawn to Christ happens to the unregenerated person.

Thats false, being regenerated happens to the spiritually dead unregenerate person, then they are drawn. In fact the drawing is regeneration, the fruit of it.

They are enabled to receive Christ because of being drawn;

Correct because being drawn is part of regeneration, made alive from the dead. So unless God makes us alive first, we cannot believe in Christ

In being drawn they become able to make an informed decision either for or against Christ.

Wrong, the decision was made by Gods will for the person to believe in Christ, that's Gods work Jn 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Its given by God in behalf of Christ to believe in Christ Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Yes the drawn person believes, but Gods Grace caused it, and God taught them so they learned Jn 6:45

A person cannot receive Christ apart from being drawn to Him.

Absolutely correct since being drawn means being born again

But a person is not saved until after he receives Christ.

Wrong, a person doesnt receive Christ until after they are saved by being born again/regenerated.

He does not have the power to become a child of God until then (John 1:12).

Its only the born again of the Spirit that believes on Christ Jn 1:13 because they belong to Christ Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So those who belong to Christ have His Spirit and have a right to believe on Him. They belong to Him by redemption, and so God sends the Spirit to regenerate them Gal 4:5-6

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So they are born again before they cry abba father, they have the right to !

 

[heartwashed]

heartwashed



Thats false, being regenerated happens to the spiritually dead unregenerate person, then they are drawn. In fact the drawing is regeneration, the fruit of it.



Correct because being drawn is part of regeneration, made alive from the dead. So unless God makes us alive first, we cannot believe in Christ



Wrong, the decision was made by Gods will for the person to believe in Christ, that's Gods work Jn 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Its given by God in behalf of Christ to believe in Christ Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Yes the drawn person believes, but Gods Grace caused it, and God taught them so they learned Jn 6:45



Absolutely correct since being drawn means being born again



Wrong, a person doesnt receive Christ until after they are saved by being born again/regenerated.



Its only the born again of the Spirit that believes on Christ Jn 1:13 because they belong to Christ Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So those who belong to Christ have His Spirit and have a right to believe on Him. They belong to Him by redemption, and so God sends the Spirit to regenerate them Gal 4:5-6

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So they are born again before they cry abba father, they have the right to !

Please give chapter and verse that tells us in holy scripture that a person must be regenerated before they are drawn to Christ.

For I contend that regeneration takes place when we receive Christ.

Of course we must be drawn to Christ in order to be enabled to receive Him.

But show chapter and verse where it says that regeneration and being drawn to Christ are one and the same entity.

Please give chapter and verse that says that a person doesn't receive Christ until after they are regenerated.

My Bible says (in John 1:12) that a person receives the power to become a son of God when they receive Him.

Therefore, we do not become children of God before we receive Him.

Becoming a child of God is the result of receiving Him according to holy scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

Please give chapter and verse that tells us in holy scripture that a person must be regenerated before they are drawn to Christ.

I have given you scripture and you dont receive it

For I contend that regeneration takes place when we receive Christ.

Thats your contention, that's about it, yet regeneration is prior to believing on Christ

Of course we must be drawn to Christ in order to be enabled to receive Him.

Thats what being regenerated is, being drawn to Christ

But show chapter and verse where it says that regeneration and being drawn to Christ are one and the same entity.

There isn't a verse that says that exactly, its implied by comparing scripture with scripture and word study. I am not inclined to do that for you because you haven't been receptive of truth. You haven't been teachable.

My Bible says (in John 1:12) that a person receives the power to become a son of God when they receive Him.

They do, but they must first be born again to receive Him

Therefore, we do not become children of God before we receive Him.

Thats false, one doesnt have a right to be called a child of God until they become believers. Faith in Jesus Christ is the indicator that one is a child of God Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

And you have been showed by roger and myself with scripture many times and to no avail, that Faith is the Gift and Work of God

Becoming a child of God is the result of receiving Him according to holy scripture.

Actually becoming a child of God openly[by Faith] is the result of having been born again

 

[heartwashed]

heartwashed



I have given you scripture and you dont receive it



Thats your contention, that's about it, yet regeneration is prior to believing on Christ



Thats what being regenerated is, being drawn to Christ



There isn't a verse that says that exactly, its implied by comparing scripture with scripture and word study. I am not inclined to do that for you because you haven't been receptive of truth. You haven't been teachable.


They do, but they must first be born again to receive Him


Thats false, one doesnt have a right to be called a child of God until they become believers. Faith in Jesus Christ is the indicator that one is a child of God Gal 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

And you have been showed by roger and myself with scripture many times and to no avail, that Faith is the Gift and Work of God


Actually becoming a child of God openly[by Faith] is the result of having been born again

According to scripture, a man is regenerated and renewed through faith in Jesus Christ.

If a person does not have faith in Jesus Christ; and has not called upon His name; then he is not regenrated and renewed.

I would encourage you to understand that if you yourself never receive Jesus as your Lord and Saviour; and end up in hell as the result; that you have no one to blame but yourself.

You cannot blame God for putting you there. You yourself chose to reject Christ in the moments that you were being drawn to Him.

You will not be able to say on your day of judgment that the only reason why you didn't receive Christ was because you were predestined to hell and therefore didn't really even have any choice in the matter.

God is not responsible for those who end up in hell; they do not go there because of some arbitrary decision on His part.

God doesn't even really send people to hell; people send themselves there by rejecting God's only provision for salvation when they are faced with it.

And it is certainly not that I am unteachable; it is that I know what I am talking about and have been attempting to correct you guys on a very grievous error.

Because a god who predestinates people to hell by His own arbitrary decision would be nothing other than a cosmic Monster.

God does predestinate people to hell...

He does so because of the foreknowledge that He has (Romans 8:29-30, 1 Peter 1:2) that they would become false teachers who would turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:3-4).

He knows ahead of time what are the choices that people will make and predestinates accordingly.

It is like when someone knows which horse will win in a race and then goes back in time and bets on that horse.

 

[brightfame52]

heartwashed

According to scripture, a man is regenerated and renewed through faith in Jesus Christ.

False, and what scripture you talking about ?

If a person does not have faith in Jesus Christ; and has not called upon His name; then he is not regenrated and renewed.

You have to be born again, spiritually alive in order to call upon the name of the Lord, thats spiritual activity. Men by nature are spiritually dead in sin

I would encourage you to understand that if you yourself never receive Jesus as your Lord and Saviour; and end up in hell as the result; that you have no one to blame but yourself.

I fear you are the one in eminent peril because of your man centered beliefs that deny the True Christ, may God have mercy on you

God is not responsible for those who end up in hell; they do not go there because of some arbitrary decision on His part.

People are going to hell in Gods Justice for their sins, and because God didnt provide them a Saviour from sin, like He didnt for the some of the angels that sinned.

God doesn't even really send people to hell; people send themselves there by rejecting God's only provision for salvation when they are faced with it.

People Christ died for cant go to hell because Christ saved them from the sin of rejecting Him Matt 1:21, the only people going to hell are those who didnt have Christ as their Saviour from hell

And it is certainly not that I am unteachable; it is that I know what I am talking about and have been attempting to correct you guys on a very grievous error.

Yes you are unteachable and very much deceived, may God have mercy on you, if it wasnt for Him having mercy on me, i would be deceived like you friend.

Because a god who predestinates people to hell by His own arbitrary decision would be nothing other than a cosmic Monster.

What do you call a God who predestined many to eternal Glory for nothing other than His Glory ?

He does so because of the foreknowledge that He has (Romans 8:29-30, 1 Peter 1:2) that they would become false teachers who would turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness (Jude 1:3-4).

False teaching, I see you have no understanding of Gods foreknowledge, and you are not teachable

He knows ahead of time what are the choices that people will make and predestinates accordingly.

False teaching, He knows everything thats going to happen because He so determined it to happen before the world was created. You act like God had to learn something before He determined it, lol, you belittle God friend

It is like when someone knows which horse will win in a race and then goes back in time and bets on that horse.

There you go, belittling God, saying He had to first gaze into the future to see what horse would win, see my God didnt have to do that, He predestinated what horse would win before the horse existed.

 

[Consecrated Life]

When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:

I seek out, seek out after, require.

to seek the favor of God, worship him

And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !

Failure to seek after God in no way negates both the awareness of our own evil nature & the conscious awareness that there is a God.
What effect does the knowledge of our own sinful nature & the consciousness of God have on the naturally reprobate soul ?
There has to be some response to it .

 

[Edward]

We have to overcome the flesh and always listen to our spirit which is already righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

consecrated life

Failure to seek after God in no way negates both the awareness of our own evil nature & the conscious awareness that there is a God.

Still man naturally doesnt seek after nor understand the True God, doesnt matter how he feels about himself, or what awareness he may have, he doesnt understand nor seek the True God

What effect does the knowledge of our own sinful nature & the consciousness of God have on the naturally reprobate soul ?

I dont know, but the reprobate soul is a natural man, and doesnt seek after the True God. So this question is meaningless

There has to be some response to it .

Idolatry and the worship of idols and false gods. I never said or the scripture never says that men by nature cant seek after false gods of their own fleshly making and understanding. There are roughly 4200 different religions in the world, google it, and that's because men are very religious who experience those feelings you described, but they still dont seek nor understand the One and only True God, do you ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

consecrated life



Still man naturally doesnt seek after nor understand the True God, doesnt matter how he feels about himself, or what awareness he may have, he doesnt understand nor seek the True God



I dont know, but the reprobate soul is a natural man, and doesnt seek after the True God. So this question is meaningless

Humans do not seek concerning the True God ?
Really ?
Are you not aware that even as we speak there are hundreds of millions of people actively seeking to prove that there is no true God ?
It sounds as though you are also unaware that hundreds of millions of people have as a result of their seeking to disprove the True God's existence ended their search in discovering the True God ?

 

[brightfame52]

Humans do not seek concerning the True God ?
Really ?
Are you not aware that even as we speak there are hundreds of millions of people actively seeking to prove that there is no true God ?
It sounds as though you are also unaware that hundreds of millions of people have as a result of their seeking to disprove the True God's existence ended their search in discovering the True God ?

Yes really. Read Rom 3:11

 

[Consecrated Life]

Yes really. Read Rom 3:11

So you do not believe that people seek to disprove the God of the bible ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

Scripture is replete with those both seeking to disprove God, as in those murdering Jesus by slow death and defying Him to prove God :


Mat 27:40
And saying.... save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.


As well as those so desirous to seek after the true God they are willing to risk public ruin & humiliation in seeking God. Just as Nicodemus did in seeking Jesus under the cover of night :

¶

Jhn 3:2
There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Tell me how Nicodemus was not seeking after the true God in his sneaking off to see Jesus at night ???
You can't do it !

Your lack of understanding exactly what entire group of people Paul is addressing in Romans and more importantly for what reason he is dressing them down that causes you to set up such obvious biblical dichotomies for yourself .

 

[brightfame52]

So you do not believe that people seek to disprove the God of the bible ?

I believe what Rom 3:11 says, do you ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

I believe what Rom 3:11 says, do you ?

Scripture properly understood I believe.
Your lack of understanding exactly what entire group of people Paul is addressing in Romans, and more importantly, for what reason he is dressing them down that causes you to set up such obvious biblical dichotomies for yourself.
Such as claiming no unbeliever seeks the true God when that is exactly what scripture says Nicodemus as well as others did :

Jhn 3:2

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Tell me how Nicodemus was not seeking after the true God in his sneaking off to see Jesus at night ???
You can't do it !

 

[brightfame52]

Scripture properly understood I believe.
Your lack of understanding exactly what entire group of people Paul is addressing in Romans, and more importantly, for what reason he is dressing them down that causes you to set up such obvious biblical dichotomies for yourself.
Such as claiming no unbeliever seeks the true God when that is exactly what scripture says Nicodemus as well as others did :

Jhn 3:2

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Tell me how Nicodemus was not seeking after the true God in his sneaking off to see Jesus at night ???
You can't do it !

Im not going to be explaining all that, either you believe Rom 3:11 or you dont. Man naturally doesnt seek after God, nor understands Him.