Does the Holy Spirit move after Acts?

[smaller]

Every believer who believes today has for a fact had a DEVIL cast out of their own minds, and that by The Spirit of God in Christ:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

That is a work of God in that person. Both their blinding and their belief. Did they cause their own unbelief? No. Did they make their own belief? Never. They were 'allowed' or 'elected' to be brought in.

They were turned and released from the power and blindness of an unseen enemy in their/our own minds that prior caused our UNbelief.

Luke 11:20
But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Every believing participant who carries Gods Living Words in their heart to the unsaved, and GOD GRANTS any person 'belief' has in fact participated in the casting out of that blinder, that DEVIL, from that persons mind.

How many of you knew you were being used to do this and saw it for what it was?

1 Corinthians 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

s

 

[Free]

Paul encouraged the Gentile Christians to speak in tongues and instructed how that gift was to be used in the assembly (in an orderly fashion). He said that He spoke in tongues more than they did. [1 Cor 14:18].

This is an important point, if I understand you correctly. If these gifts ceased with the Apostles or the completion of Scripture, then what of those who clearly had them? Did they just suddenly cease?

It really makes little sense to say that the gifts ceased, for any reason. The Bible is far from clear as to when they will cease but the context that best fits is that of the perfection and completion of believers at the summation of all things, when all the mysteries will be made known.

 

[rrowell]

This is an important point, if I understand you correctly. If these gifts ceased with the Apostles or the completion of Scripture, then what of those who clearly had them? Did they just suddenly cease?

It really makes little sense to say that the gifts ceased, for any reason. The Bible is far from clear as to when they will cease but the context that best fits is that of the perfection and completion of believers at the summation of all things, when all the mysteries will be made known.

The problem I have with this Free is that I can find where the Gifts were ONLY given by Apostles, nowhere can it be found anyone other than an Apostle was able to transfer these gifts to another...

Acts 8:18 (KJV)
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Simon was a Christian, so if it was the same Holy Spirit that we all get as in Acts 2:38, and there is only one Baptism Ephesians 4:4-5 which is Acts 2:38, then the only way to get them was from an Apostle, and we don't have apostles today.

 

[Free]

The problem I have with this Free is that I can find where the Gifts were ONLY given by Apostles, nowhere can it be found anyone other than an Apostle was able to transfer these gifts to another...

Acts 8:18 (KJV)
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Simon was a Christian, so if it was the same Holy Spirit that we all get as in Acts 2:38, and there is only one Baptism Ephesians 4:4-5 which is Acts 2:38, then the only way to get them was from an Apostle, and we don't have apostles today.

This is no way means that no other believer could impart the spiritual gifts. But more importantly, if you want to make this argument, it does in your own position.

 

[smaller]

The problem I have with this Free is that I can find where the Gifts were ONLY given by Apostles, nowhere can it be found anyone other than an Apostle was able to transfer these gifts to another...

Those activities transpired even prior to the Cross and Resurrection:

Luke 9:
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.


There were also those speaking mightily from the Old Testament scriptures post John's baptism alone:

Acts 18:25
This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.


s

 

[Webb]

Hi Smaller

Perhaps I'm dense (some credible fold have so said ) but I couldn't understand where you stood, you seemed (to me at least) to wobble a bit.

Have a blest day

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller

Perhaps I'm dense (some credible fold have so said ) but I couldn't understand where you stood, you seemed (to me at least) to wobble a bit.

Have a blest day

I'd suggest that there are many 'terms' deployed in the text that point to unseen but very real matters.

Most of the matters deployed in the text do not deal with things we can lay our hands on or physical matters. Such things are deployed in metaphor, allegory, parable.

Doesn't make those matters a bit less real. The real they point to is beyond fleshly sight.

Pretty simple.

s

 

[smaller]

Every believer in this thread should understand that the identical and exact same call that came upon Paul also comes upon us all.

It is not hard to unite AS ONE in this regard. Not one bit should this be difficult to 'see.'

We do not go around putting 'toothpicks' in people's eyes to OPEN THEM do we?

The opening of the eyes is an unseen and Spiritual matter and engagement.

We have all, everyone of us, been called into this arena.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

We don't turn on a light in the house to bring them out from darkness.

We resist the unseen power, that of Satan who blinds the unbeliever just as we were all likewise blinded before the light was turned on BY GOD for us.

Are we then called to make doctrinal adherents? There is no pattern that any doctrine can 'give you' for these types of engagements.

When you or I 'witness' we do in fact WITNESS to TWO separate entities. The blinded slave and the CAPTOR of the blinded slave.

God gives FIRE in the mouth of His Witnesses.

s

 

[rrowell]

Those activities transpired even prior to the Cross and Resurrection:

s

Key words "prior to the Cross",

God worked with man directly "prior to the Cross", after "the Cross" all authority was given to Christ, therefore "Those activities" could only happen by the authority of Christ, and nowhere this side of the Cross is anything like that recorded other than by an Apostle, or one the Apostle transferred the "activities" too...

 

[smaller]

Key words "prior to the Cross",

God worked with man directly "prior to the Cross", after "the Cross" all authority was given to Christ, therefore "Those activities" could only happen by the authority of Christ, and nowhere this side of the Cross is anything like that recorded other than by an Apostle, or one the Apostle transferred the "activities" too...

God still works directly. Many think they have captured Him by their constructs, which most only use to damn other believers to burn alive. Sound familiar?

Such proponents have been taken off the battlefield in blindness by the enemy.

I hope they all heal, quickly.

s

 

[Webb]

Smaller, what is "pretty simple" is that the signs of Mk.16:17,18 were meant to be understood as literal, "And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with themn, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen" Mark 16:20. What signs? Those above mentioned in vs. 17,18. Context. We find those apostles exercising all the "signs" of Mk.16 with the exception of drinking poison and then (as pointed out in a previous post) the conditional word "if" is placed before it, that being the only sign with the word "if" attatched. What those apostles did in confirming the word preached was in a literal way. I've stated in a previous post that "serpents" and such like may be understood as symbolic at times, but Mark 16 seems to not the time or place.

 

[rrowell]

God still works directly. Many think they have captured Him by their constructs, which most only use to damn other believers to burn alive. Sound familiar?

s

No, but this does:

Ephesians 1:22-23 (KJV)
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[smaller]

Smaller, what is "pretty simple" is that the signs of Mk.16:17,18 were meant to be understood as literal,

Vipers my friend are literal and UNseen.

You however may wish to insert and handle rattlesnakes as you see fit. Good luck with that.

"And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with themn, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen" Mark 16:20. What signs?

Do you even know or perceive the 'signs' you are looking for? There are certainly signs and they DO follow those who believe.

What would you possibly look to for understandings?

Those above mentioned in vs. 17,18. Context. We find those apostles exercising all the "signs" of Mk.16 with the exception of drinking poison and then (as pointed out in a previous post) the conditional word "if" is placed before it, that being the only sign with the word "if" attatched.

I can assure you that the disciples and Apostles were not physical snake handlers if this is what you are inferring above. What 'if' has to do with the observations I would not know. You mean "IF" they drink any deadly thing by 'accident?' That kind of 'if?'

What those apostles did in confirming the word preached was in a literal way.

Which again has to do with what? You think faith is something they had in their hands and fed people through their mouths?

I've stated in a previous post that "serpents" and such like may be understood as symbolic at times, but Mark 16 seems to not the time or place.

If there are snakes/vipers referenced in the text, they are allegorical to Satan and his own.

One poster cited the snake that bit Paul in his hand, which he shook off into the fire.

Don't you see the allegories in that matter? Paul was gathering wood. Wood is also symbolic to PEOPLE. The snake was 'hiding' under/in same and emerged when the wood/sticks were laid on the fire. An exact picture of 2 Cor. 4:4 allegorically speaking as to the 'snake' in the 'woodpile.' It bit him in the hand. The kingdom is also 'at hand' but it is certainly not 'held' there in the form of a tiny physical Jesus is it? The snake went into the fire, another picture of coming judgments.

and on it goes...

Many of the 'events' of Paul, though every matter a literal physical matter/event in time, also contains MANY allegories as does every event of the O.T.

It is quite fruitless to approach the scriptures, not knowing these things.

God in Christ is active in each of our lives in and after the same fashions that have always transpired, but it remains largely beyond sight, and that only in the eyes of the untrained. They do not and can not perceive them, even though they are living them.

The location of the serpents? Very close to home. Same with the wolves:

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

The wolf and the serpent is not the other guy, in that other sect who doesn't believe like you or I or those blinded by the devil. They are matters that we ourselves are turned from, even while still carrying same.

We often seem to forget the 'power' we were turned from to begin with. God in Christ has in the allegorical sense, torn us 'in two' or 'in pieces.'

Paul remained the chief of sinners post salvation. Sin is in fact of the serpent, the devil. Paul even had a devil placed in his flesh. Paul had evil present with him. ALL post salvation.

Paul was in fact himself carrying the deceiver, even while being IN TRUTH and TRUTHFUL.

It can be hard to see these 'signs' facts for ourselves:

2 Cor. 6:
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;

s

 

[smaller]

No, but this does:

Ephesians 1:22-23 (KJV)
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


John 14:6 (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I wouldN'T disagree with any scripture. Nor do any of us think we do.

s

 

[Webb]

Hi Smaller--

I am not now suggesting, nor have I ever suggested that the apostles were "snake handlers'' as are some religious sects. The case you mentioned is found in Acts 28:1-6. By accident Paul picked up a serpent and was unharmed. This was literal and the very kind of sign Mark 16:17,18 alluded to. You seem to insist on taking the topic off the context of Mark 16. As I understand it, its the only way you can get your symbolical, allegorical and metaphorical signs in. I maintain such is not the context of Mark 16.

 

[Free]

Vipers my friend are literal and UNseen.

You however may wish to insert and handle rattlesnakes as you see fit. Good luck with that.

Do you even know or perceive the 'signs' you are looking for? There are certainly signs and they DO follow those who believe.

What would you possibly look to for understandings?

I can assure you that the disciples and Apostles were not physical snake handlers if this is what you are inferring above. What 'if' has to do with the observations I would not know. You mean "IF" they drink any deadly thing by 'accident?' That kind of 'if?'

Which again has to do with what? You think faith is something they had in their hands and fed people through their mouths?

If there are snakes/vipers referenced in the text, they are allegorical to Satan and his own.

One poster cited the snake that bit Paul in his hand, which he shook off into the fire.

Don't you see the allegories in that matter? Paul was gathering wood. Wood is also symbolic to PEOPLE. The snake was 'hiding' under/in same and emerged when the wood/sticks were laid on the fire. An exact picture of 2 Cor. 4:4 allegorically speaking as to the 'snake' in the 'woodpile.' It bit him in the hand. The kingdom is also 'at hand' but it is certainly not 'held' there in the form of a tiny physical Jesus is it? The snake went into the fire, another picture of coming judgments.

and on it goes...

Many of the 'events' of Paul, though every matter a literal physical matter/event in time, also contains MANY allegories as does every event of the O.T.

It is quite fruitless to approach the scriptures, not knowing these things.

God in Christ is active in each of our lives in and after the same fashions that have always transpired, but it remains largely beyond sight, and that only in the eyes of the untrained. They do not and can not perceive them, even though they are living them.

The location of the serpents? Very close to home. Same with the wolves:

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

The wolf and the serpent is not the other guy, in that other sect who doesn't believe like you or I or those blinded by the devil. They are matters that we ourselves are turned from, even while still carrying same.

We often seem to forget the 'power' we were turned from to begin with. God in Christ has in the allegorical sense, torn us 'in two' or 'in pieces.'

Paul remained the chief of sinners post salvation. Sin is in fact of the serpent, the devil. Paul even had a devil placed in his flesh. Paul had evil present with him. ALL post salvation.

Paul was in fact himself carrying the deceiver, even while being IN TRUTH and TRUTHFUL.

It can be hard to see these 'signs' facts for ourselves:

2 Cor. 6:
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;

s

Too much "spiritualizing" of the text. There simply is no need to believe that when Mark speaks of vipers and when Paul was bitten by a viper that such verse are speaking of something that is not literal. In fact, it may very well be that the verses in question in Mark were added after such incidents had occurred.

It is error to take a word's use in one verse and then apply that meaning to a different verse with a different context. They may have the same meaning but they may not. And in this case they do not.

 

[smaller]

Too much "spiritualizing" of the text. There simply is no need to believe that when Mark speaks of vipers and when Paul was bitten by a viper that it was nothing but literal.

People see what they see, or don't. That's the way it is.

To say however the event was not Divine would not be accurate. Paul did not lose his life, even though every native watching KNEW he should have quickly died.

Nope, no spiritual activity there. Huh uh.

s

 

[Free]

To say however the event was not Divine would not be accurate.

I'm not sure who is saying that but it sure wasn't me.

 

[smaller]

I'm not sure who is saying that but it sure wasn't me.

Glad you saw that much.

Luke 10:19
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Don't you see this is a personal walk in prevailing over sin and the power of the enemy that we remain subject to, if not CAREFUL?

God in Christ certainly does not grant power to go out and stamp on physical snakes and scorpions.

That would NOT be a Divine Matter.

The 'bruising' of Satan is to transpire very close to home. Closer than many see:

Romans 16:20
And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

How many think we will 'see Satan, physically there, bruised, under our own feet?'

I'll go for a 'not I' on that one.

s

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller--

I am not now suggesting, nor have I ever suggested that the apostles were "snake handlers'' as are some religious sects. The case you mentioned is found in Acts 28:1-6. By accident Paul picked up a serpent and was unharmed. This was literal and the very kind of sign Mark 16:17,18 alluded to. You seem to insist on taking the topic off the context of Mark 16. As I understand it, its the only way you can get your symbolical, allegorical and metaphorical signs in. I maintain such is not the context of Mark 16.

I would only see that you don't see much about enemies or serpents. And even less, their location.

s