Hi Smaller
The only thing I get out of your post 415 is that you deny the validity of Acts 2:38,39. Rght?
I've said repeatedly that I deny zero scriptures.
How we may reflect on these matters will obviously vary. If history shows us anything it would be that no two reflectors (individuals) are likely to have identical reflections. And I'm OK with that approach.
If we all see in part we will have different reflections.
The variance of given light is also very scriptural.
Even in that particular event more light was shed upon and given from Above to some and not as much or even ANY upon others.
To say we are the arbiters of that distribution would not be an accurate reflection in my eyes.
Those to whom that was spoken had already believed, Acts 2:36,37, if not, then when they asked in vs. 37 "what shall we do", why didn't Peter and the apostles tell them:"there's nothing you can do to receive remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit, you already believe," BUT, they said NOTHING of the sort, did they?
People will naturally formulate that matter a number of ways. Stated prior that the Holy Spirit was also given in an entirely different setting in John 20, so obviously there are a number of things to reflect upon. It's always problematic to take individual scripture sets and make them fit all circumstances at all times.
We also know that God has always worked in diverse ways and manners.
You bring up Jn.3:36 because it only mentions belief. Question: Is belief there generic? Does it include repentance? If it does, I promise you that through the same door you bring repentance into that verse, the scripture brings baptism.
The scripture presents MANY forms of baptism as previously noted in this thread.
It is likely that the disciples themselves experienced John's baptism, seeing as how they also baptised after that manner with Jesus, though Jesus Himself baptised no one after that manner.
Yet John and Jesus also spoke to them about other baptismS:
Here are two more to add to the list:
Matthew 3:11
I indeed
baptize you with
water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall
baptize you
with the Holy Ghost, and with fire
In a single scripture set there are THREE to observe. At least in some eyes.
And Jesus spoke to His disciples about this as well:
Matthew 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask.
Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of,
and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Obviously and again well AFTER all of their prior water baptism.
Answer: is Jn.3:36 faith only? Or does it mean the kind of belief which embraces repentance and baptism as well.
The only remedy for me to understand 'one baptism' is the placement of believers into His Body via faith. That's how I see it. That's how I also experienced it. I can only speak to what I know and experience and what my own conscience has to find peace with. I find no peace in bringing condemnation into my heart to other believers over these matters. Some get their jollies on those angles. I don't.
Then you use Rom.10:13. Do you not know Paul was writing to those who had already Christrians?
I tend to be substantially more liberal in my sights on the above and as to 'who' actually 'does so.' If a believer claims to be one and does NOT so, then I might question their validity of walk. If we read Paul who clearly in my eyes, says everyone who does what he states thereby fulfills every command, it would also put the external exercises into a lesser form of light in my own eyes. If you say any believer can not do that and thereby fulfill unless they are baptized after your certain fashions, I'd probably have to disagree on the basis of Spirit in Love Actions in that believer.
Do you not know Paul was writing to those who had already been baptized and raised to a new life, Romans 6:3,4? And did you not notice WHEN that newness of life began? Was it before or after baptism? In fact, the same comments I made above on Jn.3:36 can be made on Rom.10:13.
Please see prior comment. There is no way that external baptism can stop any believer from moving into what Paul directs in Romans 13:8-10.
Paul himself notes that there is in fact only 'one thing' that counts for any believer.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value.
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
I might add that 1 Corinthians 12-13 lays out the exact same lines.
We all know for a certain fact that God Is Love and that Love NEVER fails.
You can focus on any other matter you see from there. It wouldn't matter to me one bit by any comparative measure.
It appears, sir, you are trying your best to find fault with me.
I've also said many times here that I believe everyone who has called upon the Lord in faith to save them is saved in my eyes. So there is NO condemnation in my hands toward you, period, nor can there be.
How we may reflect on these matters is going to by nature of imperfect and limited sights, going to be different. But in my view, if you are saved, even if you don't believe that yourself, there is zero intentions of harm or even fault to be found. I have another direction to move in for judgments that does not involved potentially casting my fellow believers into burning alive forever. If you are seeking proponents of that intentions you'd be looking to the wrong guy. I don't celebrate His life by bringing condemnation to you and I'm not interesting in bringing same into myself to other believers.
In my original post this morning I said NOTHING about the Spirit or belief. I only said I am Pentecostal in the sense that I belong to the church estab lished on the 1st Pentecost after Jesus' resurrection. Thats all I said. However-----if you desire a one-on-one---ask, and you shall receive.
God bless
Great.
We only have one measure to know who is who don't we?
enjoy!
s
