Does the Holy Spirit move after Acts?

[smaller]

If we snip John 7:39 out of our understanding, sure.

But with John 7:39 in mind, this could be our Lord's illustration of how they would receive. Look at the imagery. Jesus breathed on them.

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.

When the adjective ("holy") is used, it always refers to the Holy Spirit. The Hebrew counterpart (rûach) likewise refers to spirit/Spirit, wind, or breath.

"And being assembled together with [them], He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," [He said], "you have heard from Me; "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."" - [Acts 1:4-5 NKJV]

And I doubt any of the receivers went out and got 'rebaptised' in water either.

Trying to hinge these matters, Spiritual, solely on the basis of external actions will remain problematic and also a problem of what individuals focus on:

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

To say we have to stand around the baptismal pool saying, sorry brother, I can not love you in faith until you take the dip will remain a disingenuous action to me.

s

 

[Sparkey]

And I doubt any of the receivers went out and got 'rebaptised' in water either.

Trying to hinge these matters, Spiritual, solely on the basis of external actions will remain problematic and also a problem of what individuals focus on:

John 15:3
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

To say we have to stand around the baptismal pool saying, sorry brother, I can not love you in faith until you take the dip will remain a disingenuous action to me.

s

Greetings smaller!

I don't think we were talking about water baptism here. At least, I wasn't.

"After his death he [Jesus] showed himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. During a period of forty days they saw him, and he spoke with them about the Kingdom of God. At one of these gatherings, he instructed them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait for "what the Father promised, which you heard about from me. For John used to immerse people in water; but in a few days, you will be immersed in the Ruach HaKodesh! [the Holy Spirit]" [Acts 1:3-5]

Jesus started his 40-day ministry prior to His ascension with an illustration about the Holy Spirit, you rightly said that He breathed on them and told them, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost". That was at the time of the Passover, the next great feast day would come 50 days later (after he ascended). Just before that time (called Pentecost) he again told them about their "baptism" in the Holy Spirit. Then, ten days later it happened.

I think the "problem" that we encounter stems from John not naming names in the John 20 scriptures. He only talks about "the disciples". Do you think Peter might have been included in that group? Seems to me that Peter thought that he was baptized in the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, not immediately after Jesus was raised from the dead. You get my point, I'm sure.

 

[Webb]

Hi Smaller

The conclusion of you post #419 maybe summed up in your statement: ''I have another direction to move in for judgment that does not involved potentially casting my fellow believers into burning alive forever.'' No wonder you object to baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) for Jesus said "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mk.16:15,16. Jesus Himself "potentially" casts such into damnation. I, regardless of your beliefs and feelings can do no more than point folk to "the whole counsel of God" and baptism for the remission of sins is clearly a part of that counsel.

 

[smaller]

Hi Smaller

The conclusion of you post #419 maybe summed up in your statement: ''I have another direction to move in for judgment that does not involved potentially casting my fellow believers into burning alive forever.'' No wonder you object to baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38) for Jesus said "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" Mk.16:15,16. Jesus Himself "potentially" casts such into damnation. I, regardless of your beliefs and feelings can do no more than point folk to "the whole counsel of God" and baptism for the remission of sins is clearly a part of that counsel.

You are welcome to reflect whatever it is you think you see there.

I won't throw that stumbling block to those who call upon the Lord in faith, nor am I interested in playing the 'numerous' condemnations games that people love to play. Doesn't work for me. All you various sectarians will just have to wallow in it.

That doesn't mean I don't accept full immersion baptism, which I've done or even infant baptism. I just don't see it like you do. Nothing more than that.

Sorry.

s

 

[Webb]

I too am sorry--webb

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

All we can do is pray for them, if we properly look at the verse:

Mark 16:17 (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

the "them" in this verse is the antecedent, therefore we have to go back to the noun or pronoun and in this case the "them" is the eleven... (Apostles)

=D I never read it that way, and won't ever see it that way. We'll continue to agree to disagree brother. The way I read it is, "them that believe" them = those who believe...simple! God wasn't trying to confuse the world when He inspired the Word. He is not a confusing God and has made known the mysteries to children.

 

[rrowell]

=D I never read it that way, and won't ever see it that way. We'll continue to agree to disagree brother. The way I read it is, "them that believe" them = those who believe...simple! God wasn't trying to confuse the world when He inspired the Word. He is not a confusing God and has made known the mysteries to children.

My friend, nobody is trying to fool you, it is proper English, Look up "antecedent", and see for yourself, please don't take my word for it, "them" is the "antecedent", to find the "them" you go back to the closest "noun" or "pronoun"... it is English Grammar...

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

My friend, nobody is trying to fool you, it is proper English, Look up "antecedent", and see for yourself, please don't take my word for it, "them" is the "antecedent", to find the "them" you go back to the closest "noun" or "pronoun"... it is English Grammar...

Haha, so go and preach the gospel too was only for the apostles?

 

[Butch5]

=D I never read it that way, and won't ever see it that way. We'll continue to agree to disagree brother. The way I read it is, "them that believe" them = those who believe...simple! God wasn't trying to confuse the world when He inspired the Word. He is not a confusing God and has made known the mysteries to children.

Look at the context, yes them that believe. Believe what? Them that believe the apostles preaching.

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

Also, your "suggestion" would also state that the apostles didn't believe when they were clearly already doing these things. Again, I've seen the sick healed and demons cast out so why would somebody like me ever think otherwise?

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

Look at the context, yes them that believe. Believe what? Them that believe the apostles preaching.

Wow, another twist to add to everything. So if we believe the teaching of the apostles we can cast out demons? I'm afraid I will believe in Jesus and cast out demons in His name only. Though, the apostles are good role models but not the best(Jesus).

Butch you never replied to my reply 2 pages ago?

 

[Butch5]

1 Corinthians 14:2-5

King James Version (KJV)

2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

This say the gifts were to be used to edify the church. Not all gifts were signs and wonders.

Hi Deborah13,

Actually, it doesn't. He said he that prophesies edifies the church. I think many Christians miss the point of this letter. Paul was chastising this church, this letter is a letter of rebuke. In this letter Paul challenges the Corinthians several times. He calls them carnal rather than spiritual; he calls the babes rather than mature. He says should I praise you, and then says, I praise you not. He tells them they are puffed up (prideful) and he rebukes them for having divisions among them. He chastises them for abusing the Lord's Supper and for their women not wearing head coverings. There were problems is in this church. Paul said they were prideful. There were cliques among them and they were using the gifts in an attempt to outdo each other. He's rebuking them for their pride, he says he who speaks in tongues edifies himself. This is the thing he's rebuking them for. His argument is that they should be edifying the church and not themselves.

 

[Butch5]

Wow, another twist to add to everything. So if we believe the teaching of the apostles we can cast out demons? I'm afraid I will believe in Jesus and cast out demons in His name only. Though, the apostles are good role models but not the best(Jesus).

Butch you never replied to my reply 2 pages ago?

It’s all about context. Mark 16 is Marks account of the Great commission. Jesus is talking to His disciples, He's sending them out to preach to "all nations" and He says those who believe would do those signs. It's clear that this is speaking of the apostles because Mark continues; the Lord went with them confirming the word with signs and wonders. Mark didn't say the Lord will go with EVERY CHRISTIAN confirming the word with signs and wonders, he said the Lord went with "THEM".

Actually, I was get about to finish the reply to that post when my computer froze and I lost it all so I'll get back to it soon.

 

[Butch5]

Also, your "suggestion" would also state that the apostles didn't believe when they were clearly already doing these things. Again, I've seen the sick healed and demons cast out so why would somebody like me ever think otherwise?

What are you saying here?

 

[Carolyn]

In Cor 14 Paul also said that he speaks in tongues more than you all, but that he would rather prophecy to edify the church. God don't make no junk. All of His gifts are good. But if you are going to seek a gift, seek to prophecy to edify the Church.

God healed my husband of a pinched nerve in the neck a couple of years ago. He was bed ridden with it under doctors' orders. He had been given every drug, even morphine, and been told to take them all at the same time if necessary. Nothing helped. After 6 weeks our pastor asked if he could come in to the office and the pastors would annoint him with oil and pray for him. 4 hours after they had prayed for him the pain was completely gone.

When our son was four he had been in bed with an infection. The dr. had just called saying tests were still positive and they would phone in another Rx. I started reading our son a simple story about Jesus healing people and I told him that Jesus wanted to heal him too. "Right now?" he asked. I went pale and stammered uh, yah. "Can I go out and play?" Uh, I guess so---. No real faith on my part. Just the faith of a little child and a loving Creator. Our son never had another symptom and we did not pick up the new prescription. No one was more amazed than I was. We serve a merciful God Who hasn't changed. He is alive!

 

[Justin_Gilpin]

What are you saying here?

You said we are to believe in the Apostles and these signs will follow. Ask your self don't the apostles believe, so why would this be said? It's suppose to be passed down. You also said that only the Apostles would see these signs, not other christians, though many christians have, EVEN in our generation.

The covenant is the only thing that had changed. The giving of the Spirit to "all people" because Jesus Christ was our ultimate sacrifice to connect us back to God. Nothing has changed since then as you say. Having the books of the Bible put together didn't make this world "perfect", though allowing God's will to come here on earth as it is in heaven does change our lives. He's my King and I'm His dominion because I choose to follow His will, not my own. I'd rather study the Word from His perspective, not my own. I pray you find this true in your life too.

 

[Butch5]

Before I get into the meat of the message, I'll explain personal prophecy. Say a man walks up to you and says, "God told me such and such", "and if you don't ____". Or just one that has happened to me. I was talking to a guy then God told me his back was in pain and that he'd be healed. So I told him that then prayed and surprise he was healed

If some came up to me and said God told them to tell me something I’d ask them to repeat exactly what they were told so that I could confirm whether or not the word was from God.

You speak of the Holy Spirit like it's no longer needed. In OT the Spirit was there, even since the beginning "hovering over the earth". Now that Acts is over the Holy Spirit changed? I don't see any Scripture of this, none.

I never said the Holy Spirit wasn't needed. I said the gifts had a purpose.

What you've shown about once we're "perfect the gifts will cease". Are we perfect? No.

I didn't say anything about the "perfect" being people. The Greek word translated perfect is "Telios, " it means complete or mature. Paul said we know in part and we prophesy in part but when the maturity comes that which is in part shall be done away with. What was the prophecy and knowledge that Paul was speaking of? It was the message being revealed to the apostles. They were being given prophecy and knowledge from God as they went through their ministries. Jesus told the apostles,

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (Joh 16:13 KJV)

Notice Jesus said the Holy Spirit would "Guide" them into all truth. They didn't get it all at one time. This Truth that they were being given was the "Fatih." They know in part and they prophesied in part but when the maturiy comes that which is in part shall be done away with. The Faith reached maturity or completion.

Your complimenting verses that I see are only about lying signs and wonders. What about the rest of the Bible? Don't the apostles teach us to stir up these gifts?

No, He told the Corinthians to sitr up the gifts.

You said that only those who the apostles laid their hands on. Though, you failed to recognized the verse where others were casting demons out in the name of Jesus and the disciples got mad.

Not at all. That event took place before the Spirit was given. However, I'm glad you brought that up. Did you notice that the disciples had those gifts? Why then did they receive them again at Pentecost? Could it be that the gifts weren't permanent, that they were given for a specific purpose? You see, when Luke records people being filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts he uses the aorist tense of the Greek word "Pletho." This indicates an past action. If Luke wanted to record that a person was filled with the Spirit and remained filled with the Spirit he would have needed to use the perfect tense. This indicates that a person was filled with the Spirit at different times but not all of the time.

Below is another good comment by Deborah. I'd like to add if the church is still here and not "perfect", than why would the gifts be done away with if they edify the church?

I addressed Deborah's passage.

As I said, the perfect is not the Church

BTW you talk about some paper? I don't know where this is? I will give it a glance, but it won't change my mind about God doing miracles.

This statement suggests to me that your mind isn't open to anything that may be counter to what you already believe. How will you come to the truth of Scripture that way? What happened to I want the truth of Scripture. As I said before, it seems to me that you really aren't searching for truth but rather have already decided what you will accept as truth.

This statement also suggests to me that you still aren't seeing the difference between miracles and the gifts. I never said God doesn't do miracles, as a matter of fact I've affirmed that He does do miracles.


The paper is here. Spiritual Gifts and their Purpose. You probably won't agree with it, however, it will show you my position and the fact that I don't rely on a single verse of Scripture

 

[Butch5]

You said we are to believe in the Apostles and these signs will follow. Ask your self don't the apostles believe, so why would this be said? It's suppose to be passed down. You also said that only the Apostles would see these signs, not other christians, though many christians have, EVEN in our generation.

I didn't say anything about "we." Jesus told the apostles to take the message to the nations and the signs and wonders would follow those who believed their preaching. "We" weren't there.

The covenant is the only thing that had changed. The giving of the Spirit to "all people" because Jesus Christ was our ultimate sacrifice to connect us back to God. Nothing has changed since then as you say. Having the books of the Bible put together didn't make this world "perfect", though allowing God's will to come here on earth as it is in heaven does change our lives. He's my King and I'm His dominion because I choose to follow His will, not my own. I'd rather study the Word from His perspective, not my own. I pray you find this true in your life too.

The perfect is not the putting together of the books of the Bible. If you'd rather study the word from God's perspective then why dismiss the evidence that disagrees with your human opinion? Isaiah clearly said that the signs and wonders were for Israel, that is God's perspective, if you're really looking for God's perspective then you need to understand what Isaiah is talking about.

 

[Blev]

There are also two types of tongues.

Divers tongues were earthly language used to witness. the gift of tongues.

Unknown tongues were heavenly or Spiritual tongues unknown to men. Prayer and praise. From the Holy Spirit. Edifys oneself.

Yes there is a difference in devotional tongues and when speaking to a congregation. It a difference function. One allowing the Holy Spirit to pray through us because we don't know how to pray many times. Other times when the Spirit wills He may want to tell the people a certain thing. It is not something we thought about or studied about but a spontaneous message He want the people to know.

It said on the day of Pentecost they were praising God and the people understand them. They were telling of the wonderful works of God as we would perhaps give a testimony of some great thing God did like healing us or delivering us from bondage. But they were not speaking in a language they knew but in the languages of the people who were listening.

 

[Blev]

Stephen was not an Apostle, he was just one of the many disciples of Jesus, a follower of Jesus, who was chosen to be a deacon.



Acts 6:2And the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not fit that we should forsake the word of God, and serve tables.
3Look ye out therefore, brethren, from among you seven men of good report, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4But we will continue stedfastly in prayer, and in the ministry of the word.
5And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus a proselyte of Antioch;
6whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands upon them. 7And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem exceedingly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought great wonders and signs among the people.