Does the human soul consciously exist following death

[jgredline]

To burn forever means one has to be immortal, not subject to death.
And man was NEVER created immortal.

Jesus Christ imparts immortality to only one group of people....the Righteous, so that they can live a life in eternity.


There is no record of God EVER giving UNsaved person(s) eternal life.

Jay T
Go back and read what I wrote in our debate. You have avoided the questions so I am guessing you have not read them. As soon as one is born one ''becomes immortal'' Some will have eternal life John 3:16 AND OTHERS WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY..


Matt 25:41–43 “Then he will turn to the ‘goats,’ the ones on his left, and say, ‘Get out, worthless goats! You’re good for nothing but the fires of hell. And why? Becauseâ€â€
I was hungry and you gave me no meal,
I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
I was homeless and you gave me no bed,
I was shivering and you gave me no clothes,
Sick and in prison, and you never visited.’
44 “Then those ‘goats’ are going to say, ‘Master, what are you talking about? When did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or homeless or shivering or sick or in prison and didn’t help?’
45 “He will answer them, ‘I’m telling the solemn truth: Whenever you failed to do one of these things to someone who was being overlooked or ignored, that was meâ€â€you failed to do it to me.’
46 “Then those ‘goats’ will be herded to thir eternal doom, but the ‘sheep’ to their eternal reward.â€Â



Forgive me for using the message parapharaze, but it made me laugh...

 

[Solo]

To burn forever means one has to be immortal, not subject to death.
And man was NEVER created immortal.

Jesus Christ imparts immortality to only one group of people....the Righteous, so that they can live a life in eternity.


There is no record of God EVER giving UNsaved person(s) eternal life.

Wrong again. You should study the Bible and not Ellen G. White.

Sheol and Hades is proper place-name for "death," "the pit," and "the realm of the dead." Although it includes the place for both the conscious "soul" and the "grave" for the body, it never stands for either of them alone. While Sheol/Hades is the place-name, "death" is the general description, and "the pit" is the geographical description. All three terms contain souls and graves.

• Sheol/Hades is the proper "place-name" which includes "death" and "the pit." It most often focuses on the "soul."[/*:m:35bf5]
• "Death" is the "general descriptive term" which includes Sheol/Hades and "the pit." It also can be a personification.[/*:m:35bf5]
• "The pit" is the "geographical term" which includes Sheol/Hades and "death." [/*:m:35bf5]
• The pit is a very deep multi-chambered chasm in the earth with caves, or recesses. It contains both the graves and the souls of the dead.[/*:m:35bf5]
• In Sheol/Hades, "souls" are in a conscious, or semi-conscious, dull and dark condition. They can become aroused, become excited, see, speak and hear.[/*:m:35bf5]
• Before the resurrection of Christ, the souls of the righteous were also in Sheol/Hades at rest and peace.[/*:m:35bf5]
• The souls of the wicked in Sheol/Hades receive some kind of torment and suffering.[/*:m:35bf5]
• "Souls" are located in the deeper and deepest parts of Sheol/Hades, death and the pit.[/*:m:35bf5]
• "Graves" are only one part of Sheol/Hades, death and the pit. they are usually located in the upper parts around its mouth.[/*:m:35bf5]
• "Grave" is NOT "equivalent" to Sheol/Hades, death and the pit. It is only a part of them.[/*:m:35bf5]

Jesus never lies, and he shows in the teaching of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 that an unsaved person continues to "live" after he dies and his body is buried. His soul continues to exist in Sheol/Hades.

Numerous verses in the Old Testament show the soul and body of unrighteous and righteous continue to "live" after the physical death of the body. The body is in the grave and the soul is in the deeper portions of Sheol and Hades.

 

[Drew]

Hi jg:

The problem that is facing you is as follows: it was you that introduced the argument that the "unquenchable fire" and the "undying worm" was a specific reference to the Valley of Hinnon - where presumably real human bodies were burned. I hold it as self-evident that in this real place outside Jerusalem, human bodies were eventually burned away to nothing - would you suggest that they burned and were not consumed?

So arguing that the Isaiah text is based on a reference to the Valley of Hinnon would actually seem to harm your case - since there are no corpses presently burning there.

Besides, you seem to discount an interpretation where it is the fire and the worm that last forever (as agents of destruction) and not the individual bodies on which they act. On what basis is this reading rejected?

 

[jgredline]

Hi jg:

The problem that is facing you is as follows: it was you that introduced the argument that the "unquenchable fire" and the "undying worm" was a specific reference to the Valley of Hinnon - where presumably real human bodies were burned. I hold it as self-evident that in this real place outside Jerusalem, human bodies were eventually burned away to nothing - would you suggest that they burned and were not consumed?

So arguing that the Isaiah text is based on a reference to the Valley of Hinnon would actually seem to harm your case - since there are no corpses presently burning there.

Hi Drew
That commentary By Chuck Smith is actually quite true..How ever to be clear...
The physical bodies will burn away, but the ''souls'' will burn forever....

 

[Solo]

Hi Drew
That commentary By Chuck Smith is actually quite true..How ever to be clear...
The physical bodies will burn away, but the ''souls'' will burn forever....

It is amazing how simple the truth is while man's wisdom complicates things so profoundly that in order to find the truth, one must do exactly what Jesus taught.

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3

 

[jgredline]

It is amazing how simple the truth is while man's wisdom complicates things so profoundly that in order to find the truth, one must do exactly what Jesus taught.

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3

Amen.
thanks Michael

 

[SputnikBoy]

Amen.
thanks Michael

Absolute stuff and nonsense. You guys have taken the metaphorical and made it literal. The soul that sins will die. The wages of sin is death. Death is the opposite to life. Life. That which is given to the saved. Death. That which is the state of being lost. Life. Living for eternity. Death. Lights out ...kaput for eternity. Get it? Even a kindergarten class would catch on quicker than you guys (jg and Solo).

It really is as simple as that.

 

[Solo]

Absolute stuff and nonsense. You guys have taken the metaphorical and made it literal. The soul that sins will die. The wages of sin is death. Death is the opposite to life. Life. That which is given to the saved. Death. That which is the state of being lost. Life. Living for eternity. Death. Lights out ...kaput for eternity. Get it?

It's as simple as that.

Did Jesus' body or soul descend to the lower parts of the earth prior to His ascension? Remember that Jesus' body was laid above ground in a tomb.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity F8 captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:4-10

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 1 Peter 3:18-19

 

[Jay T]

It is amazing how simple the truth is while man's wisdom complicates things so profoundly that in order to find the truth, one must do exactly what Jesus taught.

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple

 

[jgredline]

Absolute stuff and nonsense. You guys have taken the metaphorical and made it literal. The soul that sins will die. The wages of sin is death. Death is the opposite to life. Life. That which is given to the saved. Death. That which is the state of being lost. Life. Living for eternity. Death. Lights out ...kaput for eternity. Get it? Even a kindergarten class would catch on quicker than you guys (jg and Solo).

It really is as simple as that.

When my Twins Daniel and Claire where in Kindergarden, they knew as much scripture as you. Now that they are in first Grade, they have more of an understanding than you. Sput...Your words with out scripture support really don't carry alot of weight....I would not expect a verse every single time, but even once in a while would be cool.


Now you obviously believe that the Soul in a singular being is a great fault in your theology as u will see.
The body, Soul and Spirit are three different things….. In the same way God is a triune being, Christians are also triune beings……
For starters lets take a look a few verses that show how the writers have used soul and spirit interchangeably through out some of the scriptures.

In John 12:27, Jesus says, “Now is my soul troubled,â€Â
in virtually the same context in the next chapter John says that Jesus was “troubled in spirit†(John 13:21).

In Luke 1:46-46 Mary says “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.†This is a great example of Hebrew parallelism, the poetic device in which the same idea is repeated using different but synonymous words.
Further more, this interchangeability of terms also explains why people who have died and gone to heaven or to eternal torment in hell can be called either “spirits†or ‘’Souls’’
Heb. 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

1 Peter 3:19, By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Rev. 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I posted these few simple verses for Jay T in the debate forum, which he ignored. Lets hear what ''you'' have to say....

 

[Oscar3]

Sput

John 3:16=eternal life

 

[Jay T]

Sput


John 3:16=eternal life

John 3:16 DOES NOT how a person the details of how salvation works !
It is merely one part, of the whole picture.

Without repentance....there is no salvation (Pslams 51:1-10) !

Without the knowledge of God's Law, there is no salvation (Psalms 19:7) !

In fact, Pslams 51 is the very model of HOW salvation works........
Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
51:2 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin [is] ever before me.

51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden [part] thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; [that] the bones [which] thou hast broken may rejoice.
51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

 

[Solo]

John 3:16 DOES NOT how a person the details of how salvation works !
It is merely one part, of the whole picture.

Without repentance....there is no salvation (Pslams 51:1-10) !

Without the knowledge of God's Law, there is no salvation (Psalms 19:7) !

In fact, Pslams 51 is the very model of HOW salvation works........
Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
51:2 Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin [is] ever before me.

51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done [this] evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, [and] be clear when thou judgest.
51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
51:6 Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden [part] thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
51:8 Make me to hear joy and gladness; [that] the bones [which] thou hast broken may rejoice.
51:9 Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

Some advice Jay T.

Know who the speaker/writer is speaking to. It is essential in rightly dividing the Word of truth. In order to understand the context of a topic, one must know the audience. You very seldom if ever recognize the various covenants that God has made with man throughout man's history. I will name a few. The Abrahamic covenant. The Covenant with Jacob. The Covenant with Noah. The Covenant with Moses. The Covenant with believers in Jesus.

Can you separate the truths of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant and recognize that the Old Covenant is a picture for those in the New Covenant. The Mosaic law was given to the Israelites after their exodus from Egypt. Interesting that the ten commandments are given to the Israelites and recorded in EXODUS.

Good luck on growing in the truth of the Word of God, and may God lead you away from the SDA cult.

 

[SputnikBoy]

While some of us seem to have figured out the difference between life and death, you guys (Solo and jg) almost relish in your belief that (your) God gives many eternal life JUST SO THAT HE CAN TORTURE THEM!


I hate your God.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Sput

John 3:16=eternal life

...OR the alternative ...eternal death. How is YOUR math, Oscar?

 

[jgredline]

While some of us seem to have figured out the difference between life and death, you guys (Solo and jg) almost relish in your belief that (your) God gives many eternal life JUST SO THAT HE CAN TORTURE THEM!


I hate your God.

:o :o :o :o :o

 

[Solo]

While some of us seem to have figured out the difference between life and death, you guys (Solo and jg) almost relish in your belief that (your) God gives many eternal life JUST SO THAT HE CAN TORTURE THEM!


I hate your God.

I know you hate God, but He still loves you.

 

[Oscar3]

I hate your God.

Its too bad sput. I will pray for you.

 

[mutzrein]

Hey Oscar

If a person does not receive eternal life, what does John 3:16 say happens to them?

 

[Oscar3]

Hey Oscar

If a person does not receive eternal life, what does John 3:16 say happens to them?

“No one has ever gone up into the presence of God except the One who came down from that Presence, the Son of Man who himself is God. In the same way that Moses lifted the serpent in the desert so people could have something to see and then believe, it is necessary for the Son of Man to be lifted upâ€â€and everyone who looks up to him, trusting and expectant, will gain a real life, eternal life.
“This is how much God loved the world: He gave his Son, his one and only Son. And this is why: so that no one need be sentenced to eternal torment; by believing in him, anyone can have a whole and lasting life. God didn’t go to all the trouble of sending his Son merely to point an accusing finger, telling the world how bad it was. He came to help, to put the world right again. Anyone who trusts in him is acquitted; anyone who refuses to trust him has long since been under the death sentence without knowing it. And why? Because of that person’s failure to believe in the one-of-a-kind Son of God when introduced to him.