Does the human soul consciously exist following death

[Oscar3]

Solo
Please correct me if I am wrong. I re-read many of these post again and trully this is about the false teaching of annihaltion is it not. To believe the way that CP, Drew and Jay T believe as well as guibox would mean that if the soul was a single entity, then it would fit nicely with there theology.
But because the soul is a sepperate entity, then this adds credibility to what Jesus said in that the goats will suffer for all eternity.

Am I correct in my understanding here?

 

[Solo]

Solo
Please correct me if I am wrong. I re-read many of these post again and trully this is about the false teaching of annihaltion is it not. To believe the way that CP, Drew and Jay T believe as well as guibox would mean that if the soul was a single entity, then it would fit nicely with there theology.
But because the soul is a sepperate entity, then this adds credibility to what Jesus said in that the goats will suffer for all eternity.

Am I correct in my understanding here?

One thing that the Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-Day Adventists do, is put out a hook with bait on it, and when they have you hooked they real you in. Some are hooked on the sabbath teaching, some are hooked on God not being so hateful that he would surely not allow everlasting torment of a non-believer, etc.

Both Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh Day Adventists believe in annihilation, therefore they have to explain away the dual or tri makeup of the human being. A thorough study of the Bible shows the truth of man having a living soul, a spirit, and a body. God created us in His image, and that image is triune.

Get the book, Exposing Seventh-Day Adventists by Dr. Russell Earl Kelly for a good exposition on Sheol and Hades. He also covers other false teachings of the Seven Day Adventists.

Just as you have been doing, Believe that which Jesus teaches and any other doctrines that come down the pike that differ, consider it false teachings by false teachers.

Keep on and God bless you,
Michael

 

[CP_Mike]

Solo
Please correct me if I am wrong. I re-read many of these post again and trully this is about the false teaching of annihaltion is it not. To believe the way that CP, Drew and Jay T believe as well as guibox would mean that if the soul was a single entity, then it would fit nicely with there theology.
But because the soul is a sepperate entity, then this adds credibility to what Jesus said in that the goats will suffer for all eternity.

Am I correct in my understanding here?

Hi Oscar,
So were the Hebrews wrong that they did not beieve 'soul' was a seperate entity?

 

[Solo]

Oscar,
Whenever the false teachers attempt to lead you astray, know that the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God will overcome all lies.

Here is an important fact concerning the soul from the book Exposing Seventh-day Adventists by Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D. (a former SDA pastor):

• 
  Psalm 16:10 For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Sheol; neither wilt Thou allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay [shachat].
  
  Psalm 30:3 O LORD, Thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol; 'Thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit [bar].
  
  Psalm 49:14-15 As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; death shall be their shepherd; and the upright shall rule over them in the morning; and their form [strength, rock] shall be for Sheol to consume, so that they have no habitation. But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol; for He will receive me.
  
  Psalm 86:13 For Thy loving -kindness toward me is great, and Thou hast delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.
  Psalm 88:3 For my soul has had enough troubles, and my life has drawn near to Sheol.
  
  Psalm 89:48 What man can live and not see death? Can he deliver his soul from the power of Sheol?
  
  Proverbs 23:14 You shall beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from Sheol.
  
  These texts contain a very important fact about the relationship between the "soul" and Sheol at death. They also provide a remarkable demonstation of Bible inspiration. Consider the question, "Does the Bible teach that "souls" go to Sheol at death?" "Does the Bible teach that souls go to the grave, that is, 'qeber/qeburah,' at death?" "Does the Bible teach that souls cease to exist at death awaiting the resurrection?"
  
  Comparative research was made trying to link "soul" (Strong's 5315) with qeber and qeburah (6913 and 6900), the usual Hebrew words translated as "grave." Although Nephesh (soul) has many other meanings, one will discover an amazing conclusion. In the Hebrew of the above texts, the "soul" always goes to Sheol or the "pit" at death!!! The list includes every text that combines "soul" and Sheol. The "soul" is never said to enter qeber or qeburah at death!!! Again, the words, bar and shachat for "pit" refer to both Sheol for souls and the grave for bodies. However, Sheol is never translated as "tomb" or "sepulcher."
  
  Once again, it is very unfortunate that Bible translators have often translated all three words (Sheol, qeber, and qeburah) as "grave." They correctly refuse to translate Sheol as "tomb," or "qeber/qeburah? as "Sheol/Hell." Since Sheol does not mean "tomb," and "qeber/qeburah" do not mean Sheol/Hades, then why should these words all mean "grave"? Simple logic states that, if 'A' does not equal 'B,' and 'B; does not equal 'C,' then 'A' cannot equal 'C'.
  
  Inspired writers were convinced that, at death, the soul faced Sheol, not extinction. Not once did they link the soul going into the grave at death, or becoming non-existent.

 

[jgredline]

Hi Oscar,
So were the Hebrews wrong that they did not beieve 'soul' was a seperate entity?

CP
What Hebrews are you refering to?

 

[CP_Mike]

CP
What Hebrews are you refering to?

The Hebrews who wrote the scriptures! What did you think I meant?

 

[jgredline]

The Hebrews who wrote the scriptures! What did you think I meant?

And, Mike how do u know this?

 

[Jay T]

Au contraire mon ami - never even heard of SDA till a few months ago. So you'll have to chalk up my position on this topic to good old fashioned "thinking things through objectively".

Just remember that satan hates SDA's (Revelation 12:17)

 

[Solo]

Just remember that satan hates SDA's (Revelation 12:17)

Satan hates the SDS's who are under his lies and bondage, and he hates the SDA's who are truly born again, as they eventually find their way out of the false teachings of the SDA.

 

[Jay T]

Satan hates the SDS's who are under his lies and bondage, and he hates the SDA's who are truly born again, as they eventually find their way out of the false teachings of the SDA.

I dod not defend the SDA church as the Bible has already done that.....ONLY, for those who wish to believe God.

8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[Solo]

I dod not defend the SDA church as the Bible has already done that.....ONLY, for those who wish to believe God.

8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You have some time to become spiritually minded instead of carnally minded since death has not arrived for you yet. Trust in Jesus' works, not your own.

 

[Jay T]

You have some time to become spiritually minded instead of carnally minded since death has not arrived for you yet. Trust in Jesus' works, not your own.

Phillippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

What does God (Jesus Christ) will for me ?

"IF..you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

AND...if I should refuse to comply with the will of God ?
1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him".

And, this does not describe me, as I advocate God's commandments as the means of finding GREAT PEACE:
119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

 

[Solo]

Phillippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

What does God (Jesus Christ) will for me ?

"IF..you love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15).

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

AND...if I should refuse to comply with the will of God ?
1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him".

And, this does not describe me, as I advocate God's commandments as the means of finding GREAT PEACE:
119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Then love God's law and quit loving you and the SDA's law. Anyone who knows Scripture can see the "pick and choose" method of Bible scramble that you and other SDA's use to support your false teachings. The New Covenant that Jesus came to give us as the free gift from God is a different covenant than the Old Covenant that the Jews were under. Perhaps one day you will find the Prince of Peace and give up that false teacher, Ellen G. White.

 

[jgredline]

Isa 66:23
23 And it shall come to pass

That from one New Moon to another,

And from one Sabbath to another,

All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the Lord.

24 "And they shall go forth and look

Upon the corpses of the men

Who have transgressed against Me.

For their worm does not die,

And their fire is not quenched.

They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.


66:24 Corpses refers to the rebels (5:25; 34:3). The word for transgressed is related to the word for rebelled in 1:2. Their worm is not quenched depicts eternal punishment (48:22; 57:20). The imagery derives from the Valley of Hinnom that was Jerusalem's garbage dump, where unclean corpses decomposed and were burned. This verse is cited by Jesus in Mark 9:44, 46, 48. Although the Book of Isaiah depicts God's coming salvation, it closes with a strong statement of the judgment of the wicked.

Commentary by Chuck Smith

 

[Oscar3]

Oscar,
Whenever the false teachers attempt to lead you astray, know that the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God will overcome all lies.

Here is an important fact concerning the soul from the book Exposing Seventh-day Adventists by Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D. (a former SDA pastor):

• 
  Psalm 16:10 For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Sheol; neither wilt Thou allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay [shachat].
  
  Psalm 30:3 O LORD, Thou hast brought up my soul from Sheol; 'Thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit [bar].
  
  Psalm 49:14-15 As sheep they are appointed for Sheol; death shall be their shepherd; and the upright shall rule over them in the morning; and their form [strength, rock] shall be for Sheol to consume, so that they have no habitation. But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol; for He will receive me.
  
  Psalm 86:13 For Thy loving -kindness toward me is great, and Thou hast delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.
  Psalm 88:3 For my soul has had enough troubles, and my life has drawn near to Sheol.
  
  Psalm 89:48 What man can live and not see death? Can he deliver his soul from the power of Sheol?
  
  Proverbs 23:14 You shall beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from Sheol.
  
  These texts contain a very important fact about the relationship between the "soul" and Sheol at death. They also provide a remarkable demonstation of Bible inspiration. Consider the question, "Does the Bible teach that "souls" go to Sheol at death?" "Does the Bible teach that souls go to the grave, that is, 'qeber/qeburah,' at death?" "Does the Bible teach that souls cease to exist at death awaiting the resurrection?"
  
  Comparative research was made trying to link "soul" (Strong's 5315) with qeber and qeburah (6913 and 6900), the usual Hebrew words translated as "grave." Although Nephesh (soul) has many other meanings, one will discover an amazing conclusion. In the Hebrew of the above texts, the "soul" always goes to Sheol or the "pit" at death!!! The list includes every text that combines "soul" and Sheol. The "soul" is never said to enter qeber or qeburah at death!!! Again, the words, bar and shachat for "pit" refer to both Sheol for souls and the grave for bodies. However, Sheol is never translated as "tomb" or "sepulcher."
  
  Once again, it is very unfortunate that Bible translators have often translated all three words (Sheol, qeber, and qeburah) as "grave." They correctly refuse to translate Sheol as "tomb," or "qeber/qeburah? as "Sheol/Hell." Since Sheol does not mean "tomb," and "qeber/qeburah" do not mean Sheol/Hades, then why should these words all mean "grave"? Simple logic states that, if 'A' does not equal 'B,' and 'B; does not equal 'C,' then 'A' cannot equal 'C'.
  
  Inspired writers were convinced that, at death, the soul faced Sheol, not extinction. Not once did they link the soul going into the grave at death, or becoming non-existent.

Thanks Solo and keep preaching the truth of Gods word !

 

[Drew]

For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.

The imagery derives from the Valley of Hinnom that was Jerusalem's garbage dump, where unclean corpses decomposed and were burned.

Not only is this text consistent with an annihilationist position, I think it actually tends to support it. If the commentator is correct about the reference to the Valley of Hinnon, then the fact that the corpses are indeed "burned" (with the rather obvious implication that they eventually were burned away to "nothing"), suggests that the wicked are indeed annihilated and it is the fire and the worm as agents of destruction (and not the person) that goes on forever.

It is the fire and the worm that cannot be quenched in fulfilling their role of reducing human corpses to nothingness. Their action in respect to one corpse is not of infinite duration. In fact, the very reference to the Valley of Hinnon, where corpses are indeed destroyed (and therefore not subject to "eternal decomposition") suggests this very thing.

 

[jgredline]

Drew
Simply put in this verse it speaks about the corpses of men that burn ''forever''....It ''NEVER'' says that they are burned away to nothing but that the fire is not quenched...In otherwords, the corpses will be fuel for the fire ''forever''....This is consistant with Jesus teaching in

Matt 25":41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Nice Try Drew....

 

[SputnikBoy]

How DOES one literally burn forever, jg?

 

[jgredline]

How DOES one literally burn forever, jg?

Hi Sput
The answer is actually quite simple...In this case its because God ordained this particular fire....In other words, from a human point of view, I don't know...What I do know is this. God created the heavens and the earth...So if Gods word says that this fire will burn forever, then thats good enough for me.

 

[Jay T]

To burn forever means one has to be immortal, not subject to death.
And man was NEVER created immortal.

Jesus Christ imparts immortality to only one group of people....the Righteous, so that they can live a life in eternity.


There is no record of God EVER giving UNsaved person(s) eternal life.