Double Prosperity

[Kidron]

Recently on another thread we were having a lively discussion regarding poverty and..... "is it designed for the Child of God"????.
Now of course we understand that God would never offer his very best, which is his blood and his Son's very life,... and then following all this he would turn right around and keep us in poverty.
Nor, would God, after pouring out his very blood to save us so that "by his stripes we WERE healed", then turn right around and decide to make us sick..

Both of these situations , sickness and poverty, are the same Satanic coin, just different sides.
Sickness is poverty regarding the life of the body, while financial lack is poverty of the material life.
And it is JESUS who came to "give us life and that more abundantly", and that means abundant life in your body and in your material life.(John 10:10)
So never be caught up in the devil's mental blindness that would deceive you to believe that you are exist as a child of God without the abundant life that Christ said he came to give you.
And never believe for even one second that if Jesus , who "is Life, and who came to give you life more abundantly, and is living INSIDE YOU.....never believe that lack of this abundant life in your health or in your material life, is what God wants for you.
Do you really believe that Jesus is sickness, or do you really believe that Jesus is LIfe.???
Do you really think that Jesus wants to live inside a sick body?
Is that the abundant life he came to GIVE?
If "by his stripes you were healed" is a promise, then why would he want you sick if he is to live inside the very body that he came to die to save and to heal and to prosper?
But there is an enemy who does want you sick and broke..(John 10:10)....There is one who wants you destroyed in your health, in your finances, and regarding your understanding of the bible.
This is Satan.
So, be careful that you never confuse God's will for your abundant life with Satan's plan for your life's destruction.
Satan is not here to give you life, or to give you health, or to give you joy.
He is here to devour your life according to Jesus..(John 10:10), and kill you if possible, according to Jesus (John 10:10) and one of his finest tricks is to get you to come to believe that to suffer, (not according to tribulation), but according to curses, that these are God's will for you.
See,.... tribulation is not sickness or poverty........"tribulation" is the effect of the resistance to the Gospel that we will experience as the world is offended by it as we shine its convicting Light on them.
Do not confuse this with sickness or poverty, ever.
Satan's greatest feat in the life of a believer is to maintain you in a continual downward spiral process of destruction of you life and convince you that this is God's will for you.
If he can do this, then you will never get out, because you have come to believe, ...you have actually placed your faith and trust that Satan's scheme is God's will for you.
This is a terrible place for a Christian to exist and many are there.
They are there because they have placed their faith in a belief that they are meant, designed, and destined, to be sick and broke.
And if you believe it, according to Jesus, you WILL receive it...(Mark 11:23,24) as that is your faith.
So be real careful regarding what you believe. because you will have it.

Now, as i said recently on another Thread .....that poverty is a curse, which it is.
I had shared some basic bible concepts about this that explained that as God is life then any type of lack is not life and therefore is not a correct life experience for a Child of the Father of abundant life.
Listen, Saint........poverty,... and, "I came to give you life and that more abundantly" cannot exist in the same JESUS regarding his plan for you or his blessing for you.
Understand?
We talked about the fact that as a Child of God, we are given a literal inheritance that is described as the Blessing's of Abraham as he is our Father (Romans 4:1), and as we are "joint heirs" with Chirst then everything he has, we own.
Every blessing of Abraham and all that Christ IS, is ours, because we are "in Christ" and "Christ in YOU the hope of Glory"
And where are God's riches?
They are in "GLORY".
So, all of this is tied in the same spiritual and material knot.
The "abundant life" is the "riches in glory" and Christ in you is the "hope of Glory".
And As Christ is IN GLORY, and as you are "seated in Heavenly places" IN GLORY right now, (Ephesians 2:6)...and as Christ is in you and you are "in Christ, then the life of Christ is yours, and his life is not poverty or sickness, but rather it is POWER and BLESSINGS and ABUNDANCE and AUTHORITY.
And THAT is your POSITION in God's Kingdom and you are to get this revelation if you dont already possess it.

Saint, a huge part of being translated from "darkness to light" is "renewing your mind" (Romans 12:12) so that you have the "mind of Christ". (1st Corinthians 2:16)
And the mind of Christ understands who he isand so to understand this is to understand that so you are "in Christ".
And you do not have the correct mind of Christ if you dont understand who you are "in Christ" and that the very nature and power and abundancy of Christ is in you and is who you are right now.
See, u are not your own, you are "bought with a Price" (1st Corin 6:20) and it is "not you who liveth, but CHRIST who liveth in you" (Galatians 2:20) and you are to live by Faith in him , in His POWER, in HIS Authority, which is YOUR Authority and Power by right of Sonship.
Now get that as this revelation will dynamically change your entire Christian perspective and experience if you can receive this divine revelation of Who you are in him is exactly the same as who he is in you, is exactly as he is in God .
You are "one" with Christ and God...(John 17:21) (Ephesians 5:30).
And so, this means that we have a right to expect access to all that God is, all that God has, and all that God can do, as this is our Sonship "One with God and Christ" right as a family member in the body of Christ.
And its by renewing our mind toward this acceptance of who we are "in Christ" that we are truly transformed in our spiritual and material lives.
To live outside this revelation is to be in a carnal mind , a mind of the flesh.

Saint..., we are now become translated and transferred from the kingdom of darkness INTO the Kingdom of God (because we were born again INTO a different spiritual realm), therefore we have entered into God's dimension of power and authority and provision to redirect and or heal our circumstances of life by faith so that they line up with God's provision for abundant life and will for ministy.
Paul describes this heavenly provision that is OURS, as "riches in Glory", and Jesus in Mark 11:23,24 tells us how to access the provision by using our Faith and words..
We also discussed the reason for this access, as Paul explains its there for our "needs'< and not ever for our greed.
Jesus's abundant life provision for us, that includes health and material gain, is not provided to store up as treasure lust, but its provided to bless us so that we are able to bless others as well as fulfill the will of God as he leads us to do it daily.
The "riches in Glory", are ours to use for God's Glory, not ours, and this simply means to do the work of the ministry on God's behalf.,...give to the poor, win the lost, establish churches, teach the new converts, , ect.
Some of us, will be told by God to do extraordinary things, such as build a TV network, or to build an orphanage or a hospital in a poor country, for example.
And as this is GODS WILL for it to be done, then its God's responsibility to SUPPLY from his "riches in Glory" the materials that are needed to complete the job, the ministry, the will of God.
Saint, we supply the obedience to his will and the faith, and he will supply the rest.
Its our position to be the Obedient TOOL in his hands to get the process started and developed and finished, accessing God's "riches in Glory" by faith to do it.

And faith, if it is real and alive and powerful is not just a definition or memorizing that, "faith is the substance",.... NO......real spiritual faith has to be empowered and energized by expectancy so that it has the ability to "call those things that be not as if they were".... It has to have the power to access God's supernatural power to manifest and change circumstances in the natural realm as need be.
And as i discussed in that other thread, the way a Child of God's faith becomes a real and living force for accessing God's abundance and power, is that the Saint has to come to an understanding, has to get the revelation that they have the Sonship authority to access all that God has, and all that God can do, because he is Gods and has the right to have it.
This is the blessed part of the Gift of Salvation that a lot of Christian's cant see until the see it., until the light of this revelation opens to them.
And until they do they will just exist in an extremely reduced capacity to do much for God, having a very small impact on their world, if any,..while all the time thinking that what it means to be a Christian is exactly what Satan wants them to think, which is....,powerlessness, suffering, poverty, disease, is God's will for them and their lives.

Now, what is "Double Prosperity".??
Its very simple.
1.) Its the blessing of the Kingdom of God on you and in you, which empowers you for his service, and, :
2.) Its God blessing all you do, or as the bible says, "everything you put your hand to". (Deut 28:8)
The double prosperity of God, is the power of God and the abundance of God and the entitlements of Abraham's blessing (Deut 28:8) that are RIGHT NOW your inheritance and are designed to empower and furnish all your "needs" for serving him, as well as for your personal life according to Gods "riches in Glory".
So, on one hand this double prosperity blesses you, and on the other hand it blesses all you do.
Its a double blessing, and it is designed to facilitate and divinely equip, and also enable you and bless you and all you do as you serve God according to his plan for your life.


be blessed,



K

 

[DarkHorseRising]

This sounds suspiciously close to most of those "prosperity gospels" that are popular with wealthy people who want justification to buy a new Mercedes instead of donating to an overseas mission.

 

[tandemcpl]

This sounds suspiciously close to most of those "prosperity gospels" that are popular with wealthy people who want justification to buy a new Mercedes instead of donating to an overseas mission.

I like how you think.

 

[Milk-Drops]

So what doese this mean for my friendwho was diagnosed with stage 4 brain cnacer even though she was very devought? Was that Satan to? Or was that something else?

 

[Kidron]

This sounds suspiciously close to most of those "prosperity gospels" that are popular with wealthy people who want justification to buy a new Mercedes instead of donating to an overseas mission.

Well, the entire thread was clear to point out that any "riches in Glory" that God supplies according to our need is ministry functionality related.
I stated clearly that we are never to think of or treat God's blessing as if its some sort of treasure to hoard.
As i said, all of God's blessing is given to us to promote his influence in the earth.
And as i said, if he gives you an assignment to complete, then he is obligated to supply the materials, whether this is spiritual or material.
If he calls to preach, then he has to enable you to do it.
If he calls you to be a missionary, then he has to give you the money to survive.
If he calls you to build an orphanage, he has to supply the finances to complete HIS work.

Often the will of God will require something that needs money to complete, and therefore, he has to supply it and we have the right to expect him to do this.
And he has the right to expect us to be obedient and to have Faith.
He has his part to do and we have our part to do.
Together we get it done as "one".

So, never think of prosperity as anything but materials for the ministry., and also blessing for the obedient.
We have a right to both, as we are the Sons of the blessed, and the channels of the blessing.

Money is just a means.
Its just a tool for blessing.
God has been establishing his influence in the earth using money even before HE caused Soloman to be the richest man on earth.
You should study the wealth that King David had.
It was Gods, and he allowed David the blessing of using it.
And it was a LOT.
Read about Abraham and how God blessed him.

The abundant life Jesus came to supply, is not just spirituality.
If it was, ......if Gods "riches in Glory" were only "spiritual", then not a single church he called a man to build would be built.
God supplies for HIS work, and we are the workers.
It all works together.
Supply, ministry, obedience, and Faith.





K

 

[DarkHorseRising]

Well, the entire thread was clear to point out that any "riches in Glory" that God supplies according to our need is ministry functionality related.
I stated clearly that we are never to think of or treat God's blessing as if its some sort of treasure to hoard.
As i said, all of God's blessing is given to us to promote his influence in the earth.
And as i said, if he gives you an assignment to complete, then he is obligated to supply the materials, whether this is spiritual or material.
If he calls to preach, then he has to enable you to do it.
If he calls you to be a missionary, then he has to give you the money to survive.
If he calls you to build an orphanage, he has to supply the finances to complete HIS work.

A major problem here is that people are all too tempted to blur the line between where the materials for God's project end and where the materials for their own project begins. It lends itself to segueing into "God has appointed me to do this, and I need a nice car and big house to keep myself going"

Often the will of God will require something that needs money to complete, and therefore, he has to supply it and we have the right to expect him to do this.
And he has the right to expect us to be obedient and to have Faith.
He has his part to do and we have our part to do.
Together we get it done as "one".

So, never think of prosperity as anything but materials for the ministry., and also blessing for the obedient.
We have a right to both, as we are the Sons of the blessed, and the channels of the blessing.

Now we're getting to the meat and bones of this. Are these materials (money) for the ministry, or as a reward for being a good follower? Who decides where the ministry ends and the personal blessings begin? I've set up a nice after school program for kids and helped pay to support a missionary in Africa, so now I can cash in some blessings for myself, right?

I don't know where the line is, but I do feel very strongly that I'd rather err on the side of spending more than I need on the ministry side, rather than assume anything left over afterwards is mine to do with as I please.

Money is just a means.
Its just a tool for blessing.
God has been establishing his influence in the earth using money even before HE caused Soloman to be the richest man on earth.
You should study the wealth that King David had.
It was Gods, and he allowed David the blessing of using it.
And it was a LOT.
Read about Abraham and how God blessed him.

Read about the widow in Mark 12:42, among many others.

The abundant life Jesus came to supply, is not just spirituality.
If it was, ......if Gods "riches in Glory" were only "spiritual", then not a single church he called a man to build would be built.
God supplies for HIS work, and we are the workers.
It all works together.
Supply, ministry, obedience, and Faith.

K

Treasures in Heaven will always trump those on Earth. There's a big difference between being provided for and living a life of luxury. Those who have money are stewards of it; to squander it on luxurious living for yourself is as wrong as being given a gift for teaching and refusing to use it, or having a talent for healing and letting people suffer.

If people are living at a standard far higher than their neighbors, they really need to step back and examine their priorities. Not always a fun pill to swallow, but if you want the easy way out, you are following entirely the wrong faith.

 

[DarkHorseRising]

So what doese this mean for my friendwho was diagnosed with stage 4 brain cnacer even though she was very devought? Was that Satan to? Or was that something else?

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. We live in a very imperfect world, and suffering happens. I struggle so much to know what to say to good people who suffer bad things, while rotten people prosper. And it makes me angry beyond belief when people suggest that they're blessed because they are good/holy people, which tacitly suggests that those suffering misfortune must not be holy enough, must not be right with God, or otherwise deserve their fate.

I haven't come up with anything beyond the promise that we can be with God in Paradise in the end, where there's no suffering. I'm sorry, I wish I had a better answer.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Nor, would God, after pouring out his very blood to save us so that "by his stripes we WERE healed", then turn right around and decide to make us sick..

Who says God makes us sick? edited out comment

Anyway...
I am very familiar with the "Health and Wealth" gospel, I was exposed to it in the early 90's and what you are saying is the very same thing that was being preached by Kenneth Copeland and his type way back then.

It is an empty gospel, and is very much a trap - because anyone who tries to follow it stands a VERY strong chance of ending up confused as to who God is and why He "won't answer my prayers in the way I am told He promised to".

You aren't wrong about everything you post, but you are SO wrong this time.

 

[Pizzaguy]

This sounds suspiciously close to most of those "prosperity gospels" that are popular with wealthy people who want justification to buy a new Mercedes instead of donating to an overseas mission.

I like how you think.

Agreed.

So what doese this mean for my friendwho was diagnosed with stage 4 brain cnacer even though she was very devought? Was that Satan to? Or was that something else?

You won't get a strait answer, because people who preach this stuff don't HAVE any answer. I'm sure your friend is the same as my sister (who is dying of M.S. at 56 and has lived and walked with the Lord since 1991) - they are both living in a fallen world where life is just plain unfair.

God COULD reach down from heaven and heal them both. But if He started to have daily human-level interactions with us, it would be an "all or nothing" kind of thing. It would be the end of life as we know it. No more accidents, no more sin, only His will would exist. It would be a life TOTALLY different from what we know. No illness, no crime, no death, no choice, etc.

I am not sure I want to give up freedom and choice in this life - but I know I won't have either in the NEXT life and I'm cool with that! I believe life is the way it is supposed to be - I don't have the answers, and I guess I'm not intended to have any.

 

[Mike]

I believe very differently from that of the OP. That said, a recent thread had to be shut down because of insults. Let's all be respectful of each other and focus on the topic as opposed to the person. :yes

 

[jasoncran]

mark. freewill in the afterlife isnt denied we will serve god then as we wont have desire to sin as that is taken from our nature. jesus and adam and eve all had the option to sin, only jesus didnt. he willingly and knowingly died for us all.

 

[Drew]

Now of course we understand that God would never offer his very best, which is his blood and his Son's very life,... and then following all this he would turn right around and keep us in poverty.

How do we know this?

And it is JESUS who came to "give us life and that more abundantly", and that means abundant life in your body and in your material life.(John 10:10)

Not Biblical. Nowhere in the Scriptures are we promised material abundance in this present world. Even if we are blessed with material abundance, we are obliged to give it away. So there really is no case to support this idea that a believer should be in a state of material abundance.

 

[Drew]

I had shared some basic bible concepts about this that explained that as God is life then any type of lack is not life and therefore is not a correct life experience for a Child of the Father of abundant life.

The Bible teaches that "lack" is not an experience for the Christian???

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
..........
Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
.........
And he said to them, “Take care, and be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.â€
............
Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal
...........
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

Now let's be clear: you cannot hang on to your wealth while your brother is in need, and still claim that you have not closed your heart against him. Actions are what matters.

 

[Drew]

Well, the entire thread was clear to point out that any "riches in Glory" that God supplies according to our need is ministry functionality related.
I stated clearly that we are never to think of or treat God's blessing as if its some sort of treasure to hoard.

I suggest you are trying to have something "both ways" that you simply cannot.

From this and other posts of yours, it appears you are trying to use the old "its OK that I am wealthy because I use that wealth for ministry" line of reasoning.

However, in a world where people are in want, the person who is serious about "ministry" will be giving away their wealth.

The key point is this: Yes, it may well be God's desire to bless Christians "materially". But, and this is really important, if that money is really being used for ministry, you will not have any of the following:

1. A $ 50,000 car;
2. A $ 1,000,000 house;
3. A vacation in Hawaii every winter;
4. A $ 10,000 diamond ring;
5. Expensive clothing;
6. etc., etc.

 

[Kidron]

So what doese this mean for my friendwho was diagnosed with stage 4 brain cnacer even though she was very devought? Was that Satan to? Or was that something else?

Lets consider how almost all sickness comes from or is derived from the Devil and his manifestation in the earth realm .

We know that the devil is the devourer, the destroyer (John 10:10) and we know he has dominion in the earth as he took this from Adam..
He is the god of this world and world system.
He can bring sickness to you just as he brought it to Job.
He can bring demonic oppression to a believer and demonic possession to an unbeliever.
He also has the capacity to blind the minds of both......to deceive them, in other words..
We know that Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil (1st John 3:6)
And how does Jesus destroy the works of the devil?
He Heals, he restores, and he repairs, all that the devil has made sick, possessed, stolen from, or has broken in spirit.....and he has given us the power and the authority to do the very same, and that is "ministry"- regarding a Christian.
He is IN US to do the very same works through us that he did himself while he was here.
See, the works have not changed.
Its the same broken and lost world with the same sick, lost, damaged, deceived, and damned, people living on it.
Now instead of him doing it by himself mainly in Israel, he wants to do his healing through every believer, WORLD WIDE, as he is IN US world wide.
This is why he told you to "GO into ALL THE WORLD", in Mark 16:15 and lay hand on the SICK, among other things..

Also,..
Recall when Jesus came into his ministry and was baptised?
He was then lead of the Spirit into the wilderness where the bible says Satan took him up into a high place and showed him all the "kingdoms" that Satan controlled.
That is to say, the world system, the literal kingdom of darkness that includes the people, the cities, the countries, the very System of the world that is corrupted in its lust for money, power, fame, sex, and all other types of sin.
So, we see by this that Satan controls the world , the world system is the Kingdom of Darkness.
We as Christians live in this world, but we are not OF IT.
We have been transferred and translated into another Kingdom while we are still living here physically.
This other kingdom is the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of light, and that is why the bible tells you that we are children of the light....(John 1:8,9)
This is how the bible distinguishes one kingdom from another.
"darkness" and "light"......"you are of your FATHER the devil",........"Children of God".

So, one of the results of the fall of Adam is that it eventually produced a polluted world and not just morally.
The water, the air, the food, the entire planet is choking, dying, and dirty.
And this is for a very long time.
It is so bad we had to regulate industry so that the toxins they create and pump into the air and water didnt kill us all by now.
So, in this state, the toxins that are everywhere in the world, have been created by the event that originally happened in the garden of Eden.
Satan, because of his authority as "god of this world", has created it to be a world of filth, and this filth, this contamination, is also Satanic, as its derived from a fallen planet that he caused and now controls.
Understand?
So, this filthy contaminated world causes a lot of sickness, so, in that sense, we can attribute sickness derived from this toxic planet to Satan as well.

The third thing has to do with a genetic propensity towards certain illnesses that some people are born with.
This again is a result of the fall, and can be attributed to Satan.

The 4th reason for sickness is that people do not exist within the framework of good physical health....And this includs dealing with stress, eating healthy, and getting the right amount of sleep..., and this eventually over time breaks down their body, immune system, and they get sick and often die or never fully recover.

So, we see there are 3 Satanic related reason why a person gets sick, and one that has to do with a persons lifestyle.


Perhaps in all this ive explained you can find a reason for your friends health issue, and i hope she is better, as im not sure you said if she is still alive.
Well, God bless her with full restoration and joy if she is still with us.

Now, lets discuss this word you used, "devout".
What do you mean by that?
That she went to church a lot, didnt cuss, was very kind, and had pictures of Jesus on the walls of her home?
What exactly are you saying?
Are you saying that she loved Jesus, lived for Jesus, talked to you about Jesus, and wants to be with Jesus?
Did she ever personally try to lead you to Christ as your savior?
Did she ever personally witness to you about Jesus, the Bible, or your need of them?

So, there is the "religious" person, which is often mistaken for "devout", and then there is the devoted disciple of Christ who actually is "devout" who lives their lives to serve him, to honor him, and to lead others to him.
So, one person is religious and one person is "devout".
You'll have to be more clear about your term , "devout" after you consider what ive explained.

And finally,..... divine health is a part of the gift of Salvation.
This revelation is not as well known to the body of Christ as it should be because Satan is hard at work making sure that he keeps this from being as commonly understood doctrinally by Christians as most of us understand that salvation is FREE.
Imagine if Christians all over the world had the understanding that health is a part of their inheritance and salvation benefit just as going to heaven is a part.
What would happen is that millions of sick Christians would begin to place their faith in the fact of their salvation right to be well and whole, and would recover, and then all these would be able to preach the gospel, minister the gospel, and do the work of God.
Its no wonder that Satan works very very hard to conceal this salvation aspect from so many Christians.
He knows that if he can keep millions of them in the dark and deceived, then that is so much better for him and so much worse for them.
Satan is very good at keeping Christians deceived and in the dark, and by doing so, he keeps so many millions of them sick and otherwise powerless regarding the work of God they could be doing if they were healthy but cant because they are not.

 

[Kidron]

A major problem here is that people are all too tempted to blur the line between where the materials for God's project end and where the materials for their own project begins. It lends itself to segueing into "God has appointed me to do this, and I need a nice car and big house to keep myself going"

If a person is living for the Lord and is obedient, then he or she is not going to have this issue.
If a person is not really sold out, and living on that line between backslid and nearly, then sure, that person is very worldly and cant deal with prosperity.
However, its unfair inaccurate to portray every Christian as unable to deal with money or material gain.
And i think its a type of dishonest spin to imply that God should not give a Christian any financial gain because "it might temp them to lust".
If this was true, then God should not have given you an imagination, as you dont need money to be tempted., now do you?



Now we're getting to the meat and bones of this. Are these materials (money) for the ministry, or as a reward for being a good follower? Who decides where the ministry ends and the personal blessings begin? I've set up a nice after school program for kids and helped pay to support a missionary in Africa, so now I can cash in some blessings for myself, right?

Once again you are tying to view any type prosperity as a temptation to be the worst case scenario.
This is just making a case for the exception to try to prove the rule, DarkHorseRising.
Are you saying that if God called you to a high position in his service that included handling a billion dollars a year, you are not capable of doing the right thing?
Are you implying that no Christian can do the right thing with money?
Thats what im hearing over and over regarding those that oppose the idea of God prospering us as well as blessing the ministry.


I don't know where the line is, but I do feel very strongly that I'd rather err on the side of spending more than I need on the ministry side, rather than assume anything left over afterwards is mine to do with as I please.

Where are you getting the statistics that ministers as a "whole" who are in big time ministry, all all wasting God's resources on themselves?
We have to be careful that we dont come to the false conclusion that every successful minister is a money lust filled devil.





Read about the widow in Mark 12:42, among many others.

Ok, and you read Proverbs 22:10 and Deut 28:1-13 and Romans 4:1.
Study the blessing of Abraham, and his inheritance, what it is and learn that its YOURS.
Then read John 10:10 and research the word "abundance".
Then recognize your POSITION as a Son of God with Rights to all that God has, all that God is, and all that God can Do.
Then notice that God himself is IN you.
There is a lot to realize about this "Christian thing", and a lot of it has to do with who we are "in Christ" and the authority we have and the entitlements that came with the Salvation that put us in a position of inheritance.
Find out what your inheritance is..
Its more then just a pardon for your sins..



Those who have money are stewards of it; to squander it on luxurious living for yourself is as wrong as being given a gift for teaching and refusing to use it, or having a talent for healing and letting people suffer.


yes.




If people are living at a standard far higher than their neighbors, they really need to step back and examine their priorities. Not always a fun pill to swallow, but if you want the easy way out, you are following entirely the wrong faith.

God wants your standard of living to reflect who he is.
Is he the god of poverty?
Is he the god of sickness?
Is he the god of misery?
Then your lifestyle is to reflect the KING you serve.
Thats a fact.
You are a child of THE KING.
And the King of Glory, who created the very GOLD in "them there hills", knows a thing or 2 about Prosperity.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Kidron]

Who says God makes us sick? edited out comment

Anyway...
I am very familiar with the "Health and Wealth" gospel, I was exposed to it in the early 90's and what you are saying is the very same thing that was being preached by Kenneth Copeland and his type way back then.

That has nothing to do with what im sharing, so, its better that you read carefull what im sharing, as i think this will help you to understand clearly what im actually saying vs what you think i mean.

It is an empty gospel, and is very much a trap - because anyone who tries to follow it stands a VERY strong chance of ending up confused as to who God is and why He "won't answer my prayers in the way I am told He promised to".


As i said........whatever you think a "prosperity gospel" is, or isnt, has nothing to do with what im sharing.
If you read what i write you'll discover im crystal clear concerning the reason we are to understand our position in the family of God.
See, most of what im explaining has to do with showing a believer his position within the family of God.
As THIS is the reason we have rights and entitlements which allow us access to all that God has, all that God is, and all that God is able and wants to do through us.
So, dont confuse that with your preconceived notions about some other minister whom you dont like.
Im not him., Ok?
Thx



You aren't wrong about everything you post, but you are SO wrong this time.

Actually, if you believe that you are not a Son of God with rights in the Kingdom of Heaven, and these rights and entitlement give you access to All that God has, all that God is, and all that God can do through you, then i agree that you dont agree with me.
This only points out that you should consider what im actually sharing rather then trying to filter it through your opinion regarding what you think im saying.
Read me carefully and then the confusion you have regarding "prosperity gospel" and what im sharing wont happen.

......................

 

[Kidron]

Agreed.

You won't get a strait answer,.

Well, go and read my answer.
Its as straight as the edge of a sword.

thx,



K

 

[CalledToServe]

Lets consider how almost all sickness comes from or is derived from the Devil and his manifestation in the earth realm .

We know that the devil is the devourer, the destroyer (John 10:10) and we know he has dominion in the earth as he took this from Adam..
He is the god of this world and world system.
He can bring sickness to you just as he brought it to Job.
He can bring demonic oppression to a believer and demonic possession to an unbeliever.
He also has the capacity to blind the minds of both......to deceive them, in other words..
We know that Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil (1st John 3:6)
And how does Jesus destroy the works of the devil?
He Heals, he restores, and he repairs, all that the devil has made sick, possessed, stolen from, or has broken in spirit.....and he has given us the power and the authority to do the very same, and that is "ministry"- regarding a Christian.
He is IN US to do the very same works through us that he did himself while he was here.
See, the works have not changed.
Its the same broken and lost world with the same sick, lost, damaged, deceived, and damned, people living on it.
Now instead of him doing it by himself mainly in Israel, he wants to do his healing through every believer, WORLD WIDE, as he is IN US world wide.
This is why he told you to "GO into ALL THE WORLD", in Mark 16:15 and lay hand on the SICK, among other things..

Also,..
Recall when Jesus came into his ministry and was baptised?
He was then lead of the Spirit into the wilderness where the bible says Satan took him up into a high place and showed him all the "kingdoms" that Satan controlled.
That is to say, the world system, the literal kingdom of darkness that includes the people, the cities, the countries, the very System of the world that is corrupted in its lust for money, power, fame, sex, and all other types of sin.
So, we see by this that Satan controls the world , the world system is the Kingdom of Darkness.
We as Christians live in this world, but we are not OF IT.
We have been transferred and translated into another Kingdom while we are still living here physically.
This other kingdom is the Kingdom of God or the kingdom of light, and that is why the bible tells you that we are children of the light....(John 1:8,9)
This is how the bible distinguishes one kingdom from another.
"darkness" and "light"......"you are of your FATHER the devil",........"Children of God".

So, one of the results of the fall of Adam is that it eventually produced a polluted world and not just morally.
The water, the air, the food, the entire planet is choking, dying, and dirty.
And this is for a very long time.
It is so bad we had to regulate industry so that the toxins they create and pump into the air and water didnt kill us all by now.
So, in this state, the toxins that are everywhere in the world, have been created by the event that originally happened in the garden of Eden.
Satan, because of his authority as "god of this world", has created it to be a world of filth, and this filth, this contamination, is also Satanic, as its derived from a fallen planet that he caused and now controls.
Understand?
So, this filthy contaminated world causes a lot of sickness, so, in that sense, we can attribute sickness derived from this toxic planet to Satan as well.

The third thing has to do with a genetic propensity towards certain illnesses that some people are born with.
This again is a result of the fall, and can be attributed to Satan.

The 4th reason for sickness is that people do not exist within the framework of good physical health....And this includs dealing with stress, eating healthy, and getting the right amount of sleep..., and this eventually over time breaks down their body, immune system, and they get sick and often die or never fully recover.

So, we see there are 3 Satanic related reason why a person gets sick, and one that has to do with a persons lifestyle.


Perhaps in all this ive explained you can find a reason for your friends health issue, and i hope she is better, as im not sure you said if she is still alive.
Well, God bless her with full restoration and joy if she is still with us.

Now, lets discuss this word you used, "devout".
What do you mean by that?
That she went to church a lot, didnt cuss, was very kind, and had pictures of Jesus on the walls of her home?
What exactly are you saying?
Are you saying that she loved Jesus, lived for Jesus, talked to you about Jesus, and wants to be with Jesus?
Did she ever personally try to lead you to Christ as your savior?
Did she ever personally witness to you about Jesus, the Bible, or your need of them?

So, there is the "religious" person, which is often mistaken for "devout", and then there is the devoted disciple of Christ who actually is "devout" who lives their lives to serve him, to honor him, and to lead others to him.
So, one person is religious and one person is "devout".
You'll have to be more clear about your term , "devout" after you consider what ive explained.

And finally,..... divine health is a part of the gift of Salvation.
This revelation is not as well known to the body of Christ as it should be because Satan is hard at work making sure that he keeps this from being as commonly understood doctrinally by Christians as most of us understand that salvation is FREE.
Imagine if Christians all over the world had the understanding that health is a part of their inheritance and salvation benefit just as going to heaven is a part.
What would happen is that millions of sick Christians would begin to place their faith in the fact of their salvation right to be well and whole, and would recover, and then all these would be able to preach the gospel, minister the gospel, and do the work of God.
Its no wonder that Satan works very very hard to conceal this salvation aspect from so many Christians.
He knows that if he can keep millions of them in the dark and deceived, then that is so much better for him and so much worse for them.
Satan is very good at keeping Christians deceived and in the dark, and by doing so, he keeps so many millions of them sick and otherwise powerless regarding the work of God they could be doing if they were healthy but cant because they are not.

Isaiah puts your view out the window. According to Isaiah 45:7, all things come from God.

I form the light and create darkness
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.

This is reinforced by Job 1:12, The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.â€

So much for your pop gospel.

 

[Kidron]

I believe very differently from that of the OP. That said, a recent thread had to be shut down because of insults. Let's all be respectful of each other and focus on the topic as opposed to the person. :yes

HI Mike.

glad you could join us.


Let see where we agree or disagree, as you have stated that you dont agree with the "op".
Fair enough?
Thx.


Ive stated that as Sons of God we have rights within the Kingdom of Heaven.......and these rights include access to God and his divine provision for our ministry.
Agree or disagree?


Ive stated that Salvation is more then pardon for sins, but its a restoration of our position within the family of God.
agree or disagree?


Ive stated that God does not want us sick, and that Jesus came to heal and sent us out to do the same according to Mark 16:14, and that because Christ is in us, and his power as well, that we are to access the Power of Christ by faith to heal by, "lay your hands on the sick" and they shall recover".......that this is just a part of the ministry exactly the same as leading someone to the Lord.
Agree or disagree?


Ive stated that "riches in Glory" are the divine prosperity to equip and enable a believer both spiritually and materially to do the work of God they have been called to do.
Ive stated that its God's obligation to furnish the supply for the ministry and our obligation to be obedient to the call.....Ive stated that we access the "riches in Glory" according to Mark 11:23,24 and this is always to do the work of Christ, through us, in the earth..
agree or disagree.?


Ive said that the Blessing of Abraham is our Inheritance according to Romans 4:1 and that Deut 28:1-13 explains what these blessings are..
Ive said that our rights to have this inheritance are established based on the fact we are "joint heirs" who are "in Christ".
agree or disagree.?

Ive stated that sickness, poverty, and destruction, are the fruit of the Devil's ministry,(John 10:10) and that we as Christians are to "destroy the works of the devil", using our Sonship rights to access the Power of God and use it in our ministry by faith exactly as Jesus did,...and this is because our ministry is exactly the same as His, as its JESUS who is IN US executing his ministry through us.
Agree or disagree?




K