Essential vs Nonessential

[netchaplain]

So Romans 10:9 is not a "essential doctrine" to salvation. It is a "show" that we are saved. I would have to disagree.

I think we are having difficulty in trying to explain what we mean to each other, which is a common problem when communicating by the internet.

If we are assuming that "confess" always means to truly admit that Christ is the Lord, the way we live will show we believe this truth.

 

[gr8grace3]

the way we live will show we believe this truth.

What do we look for in the "way we live" to determine if one is saved or not?

And please clarify............Romans 10:9 is not a salvation verse? It is a manner of life verse and verification for us that someone is saved?

 

[netchaplain]

What do we look for in the "way we live" to determine if one is saved or not?

The fruit of the Spirit (esp. love to others) is the only determinate visible factor of manifesting faith in God. This can be imitated to appear to be genuine, but we're not referring to this.

 

[gr8grace3]

The fruit of the Spirit (esp. love to others) is the only determinate visible factor of manifesting faith in God. This can be imitated to appear to be genuine, but we're not referring to this.

An example of ED which I believe to be most inclusive is Romans 10:9; “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Simple question NC. Did you know Paul was addressing the "confession with your mouth" to the Jews Who would chant.........the Shema?

It was what Paul was addressing. He was not saying that all people everywhere had to confess with their mouth to be saved........the Jews believed they were saved by doing this ritual. And they did not BELIEVE that Jesus Christ was that ONE Lord.

 

[netchaplain]

Simple question NC. Did you know Paul was addressing the "confession with your mouth" to the Jews Who would chant.........the Shema?

It was what Paul was addressing. He was not saying that all people everywhere had to confess with their mouth to be saved........the Jews believed they were saved by doing this ritual. And they did not BELIEVE that Jesus Christ was that ONE Lord.

Bedtime--chat ya later.

Blessings!

 

[gr8grace3]

Bedtime--chat ya later.

Blessings!

I encourage you to look in to it. Grace brother. It is all Grace. It is not Grace .....but. Grace ........and. Grace........if.

It is unmerited favor.........BELIEVE and be saved.

 

[williamt]

It has been well said that “there should be unity in all things essential, liberality in all things nonessential, and charity in all things!” The first is everyone believing the same doctrine concerning the receiving of faith (salvation). The second is respectfully allowing the variance of understanding of beliefs between one another. The third is always exercising love to one another within the first two conditions.

Essential doctrines (ED) are those which Scripture teaches concerning the requirements of receiving salvation; nonessential doctrines (ND) are teachings that are not related to receiving salvation but to increasing the strength of faith in salvation, i.e. spiritual growth in our understanding of Scripture (an unceasing progression).

An example of ED which I believe to be most inclusive is Romans 10:9; “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

An example of ND is the issue concerning teachings that relate to the permanency or temporality of one’s salvation, e.g. what one believes concerning either conclusion has no relation to that of receiving salvation but rather that of growing in the faith of salvation.

Looking at the ED of Romans 10:9, I believe the phrase “confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Lord” means to admit in your communication (signing for the impaired) that He is the Savior (Christ - sole source of redemption -1John 2:22). “Believe in your heart” to me means to always accept as true. “That God has raised Him from the dead” is a twofold conclusion in that believing in His resurrection presumes the ED concerning His incarnation (1John 4:3; 2John 1:7).

In my opinion, those who communicate with respect and kindness are the only ones who will increase their understanding (regardless of their knowledge of Scripture) in the Word of God because it shows their intentions are not out of opposition to one another, but to learn “the Word of truth.” My reason for sharing this article is not only for attempting to be instructional but more importantly so that we will remember the primary reason for learning God’s truths, to “come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ” (Eph 4:13 NLT), which sole standard is love to one another (John 15:12). The more we prioritize love to others as our motive in everything, the greater will be our practical love for God, regardless of the zeal for love to Him (1John 4:20).


For Christ’s Sake (Rom 15:30; 1Co 4:10; 2Co 12:10; Eph 4:32)

Just want to say you shared a great article. I believe soteriology essential to correct evangelism, and poor soteriology leads to false converts, and tons and tons and tons of poor information, to the degree where one makes another god after their own making. If one thinks theology is not important, then I must ask, if one holds an improper image of God in their thinking, even if not projected verbally, are they not guilty of blasphemy or idolatry? Preaching the word of God is the means God uses to call people to Himself. Think about that for a moment.

God bless,
William

 

[smaller]

So what do demons believe that is different than what man believes?

I might find James' statement a bit of a conundrum. How so?

IF a liar says "I believe" are they telling the truth? Do they have 'truth' in them, in the case of devils or children of the devil? Uh, no. Jesus tells us in John 8:44 this isn't and can't be the case. But the chief liar will do what that liar does. LIE. Even the truth is and remains "a lie" in his mouth.

So, in harmony/remedy with James, James' states they, demons, believe "and tremble." Why do they "tremble?" Because they KNOW they are LYING. And Jesus knows this as well, per the above citing.

 

[smaller]

I think we are having difficulty in trying to explain what we mean to each other, which is a common problem when communicating by the internet.

If we are assuming that "confess" always means to truly admit that Christ is the Lord, the way we live will show we believe this truth.

There are various forms and degrees of understanding "essential doctrines." I think most of us would consider that the Nicene creed positions are quite entirely secure statements of fact, and most of us would or at least should be able to conclude from our own studies of scripture that these are secure statements presented by the scriptures.

But what you are speaking of is the 'internal working" quotient, which really can not be "quantified" except by the person's experiencing the "internal reality" of Christ, our Lord, His Spirit "entering them."

We take it as face evidence, that no man can claim that Jesus Is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit, thereby "proving" the "presence" of the Holy Spirit "in them" to make such claims. 1 Cor. 12:3. I "personally" would have no cause to diminish any such claims. Paul rejoiced however Jesus was preached. And I believe he saw things this way because of Jesus Working, not man, and having therefore confidence in Christ, not man.

But again, this can be "trained" to do in the external, as a ritual of incantation. Does this then mean it really happened? I think a LOT of us would say no. It was merely a parrot and not "really" believed. I'm not saying that it wouldn't "evolve" into a more meaningful reality later either, as also many come to know. For me the "measure" of faith can be exceptionally small and still be entirely "effective" for the purposes intended. I am not called into judgment of any such and do not want it for the sake of my own heart.

Scriptures tell us that just because we "mouth" something it doesn't reach to our "internal reality."

Isaiah 29:13
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Matthew 15:8
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

Any sets of ED can be mere lip service. Meaningless.

 

[JohnDB]

The book of James deals largely with faith in action.
So he proclaims many things.

But demons having faith...OK. But the result is much different for their faith than someone else. Their faith results in fear. The man who employs that same level of faith has fear removed from him...

So obviously there is something different.

There is a complete polar opposite effect and attitude.

(As a related but not perfect example) the world is full of people who are "givers" and those that are "takers" .

The takers cannot understand why or how givers do what it is that they do. They have only given to get better for themselves. They understand psychology and maybe how to manipulate others to gain more from them but that heartfelt care and concern is completely foreign to them.

And the polar opposite side of things is that givers cannot understand why or how people can be so miserable by being a taker all the time. How that takers are so consumed with themselves that they have no empathy or sympathy...it simply doesn't make sense.

And that is the difference in beliefs. One has a lifestyle summary statement and the other believe that they are using a magic phrase.

 

[smaller]

So obviously there is something different.
There is a complete polar opposite effect and attitude.

Yeah, I think you might get the picture. The same Word that uplifts us, does provoke Satan to "resist and steal" His Words from "within man." Mark 4:15 is an internal reality.

There is a polar opposite working going on, internally. Paul served the Law of God in his mind, but the evil present with him and the sin dwelling in his flesh did what? Yeah, the OPPOSITE. And this creates our own personal battle field in our flesh. Romans 7:23 is an internal reality.

(As a related but not perfect example) the world is full of people who are "givers" and those that are "takers" .

I would see the "whole world" as filled with blinded by the "god of this world" people. Acts 26:18, 2 Cor. 4:4, Eph. 2:2 all point to what "all people" really are. Captives in unbelief. It is and will remain pointless to see "only people" in the equations of people. We have to look INSIDE, and when we do we'll see "more" than just "people." We'll see a captor and a captive.

Do captives do good? Of course. Looking at the outside doesn't reveal "innards." People obviously also do "evil" as the world shows us, overwhelmingly. Saying there are "givers" and "takers" is inadequate to the "whole" equation.

The takers cannot understand why or how givers do what it is that they do. They have only given to get better for themselves. They understand psychology and maybe how to manipulate others to gain more from them but that heartfelt care and concern is completely foreign to them.

I see people and I see the "god of this world," blinding. The later is not viewable, but IS a reality, internal. Just because someone, anyone, is a "giver" it does not mean they do not have "evil present" within them, because we ALL do. This 'internal reality' does not disappear on the basis of giving or taking.

Nor does a "lifestyle" of giving excuse anyone from the quotient of "evil's presence." As much as we would like to see it otherwise.

IF there was any essential doctrine to be put at the top of any believers list, it would be the reality of "evil present" with us. But this is offensive to the majority, and therefore, for the most part, completely ignored.

Even though the world is literally swimming in EVIL'S PRESENCE, beyond any denial, readily apparent by our 'collective external' works of both good and bad.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

An example of ND is the issue concerning teachings that relate to the permanency or temporality of one’s salvation, e.g. what one believes concerning either conclusion has no relation to that of receiving salvation but rather that of growing in the faith of salvation.

This is what determines whether or not a doctrine is essential, or non-essential:

"17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB)

This would encompass a lot of doctrine, even the one's that concern our progression in the faith.

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matthew 18:6 NASB)

If telling believers they can deny Christ and they are still saved is not causing them to stumble and destroying the temple of God what is? OSAS most certainly is the matter of an essential doctrine. Anything you say or do that potentially causes another person's faith to stumble is a matter of essential doctrine. There is a spirit of darkness at work in the Protestant Church right now that is lulling her to sleep with this "your faith doesn't matter" teaching.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Did you know Paul was addressing the "confession with your mouth" to the Jews Who would chant.........the Shema?

Which is what James was referring to as well here:

"19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." (James 2:19 NASB)

Which was referring to the Shema in the law:

"4“Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! " (Deuteronomy 6:4 NASB)

 

[netchaplain]

If one thinks theology is not important, then I must ask, if one holds an improper image of God in their thinking, even if not projected verbally, are they not guilty of blasphemy or idolatry?

Hi Brother William - Nice seeing on CF.Net, and thanks for your reply! I think there are many in Christ who have yet (but eventually will) to learn to understand many growth truths, so their knowledge of God's provisions for their maturity is presently limited. Concerning the possibility of being guilty of a sin, esp. of what you've indicated they would have to willfully and knowingly (Heb 10:26; Num 15) commit them, which is not evidence of one born again.

Love You In Christ

 

[Free]

I would encourage anyone to further their studies on Rom 10:9. Paul was addressing Jews, who would chant or confess with their mouths that the Lord was one at the beginning of every temple service. They didn't see that Jesus Christ was that Lord. So if they believed in their heart that Jesus Christ was THE Lord they were "Chanting" or "confessing with their mouth" at every service in the temple.........they would be saved.

Paul was talking to a specific audience, the Jews, in Rom 10:9.

There is nothing in the context to suggest that this is the case, so what evidence do you have to support your assertion?

 

[netchaplain]

Anything you say or do that potentially causes another person's faith to stumble is a matter of essential doctrine.

Hi JB - Always appreciate your replies! I believe why we do what we do always has precedence in the matter of being accountable to others stumbling or offense, i.e. if our motive for sharing what we believe is for truth's sake and not maliciousness, then there has been no wrong intended against another. Much of what I see shared on Christian sites like this are not with the intention of doing wrong to others, certainly variations in understanding but nothing ill willed to others.

This does not include members allowing debates to escalate to arguing and being derogatory to one another, which is just immaturity, unless their intention is not for truth's sake but rather just attempting to establish credibility so they can look right.

Blessings!

 

[K2CHRIST]

It has been well said that “there should be unity in all things essential, liberality in all things nonessential, and charity in all things!” The first is everyone believing the same doctrine concerning the receiving of faith (salvation). The second is respectfully allowing the variance of understanding of beliefs between one another. The third is always exercising love to one another within the first two conditions.

Essential doctrines (ED) are those which Scripture teaches concerning the requirements of receiving salvation; nonessential doctrines (ND) are teachings that are not related to receiving salvation but to increasing the strength of faith in salvation, i.e. spiritual growth in our understanding of Scripture (an unceasing progression).

An example of ED which I believe to be most inclusive is Romans 10:9; “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

An example of ND is the issue concerning teachings that relate to the permanency or temporality of one’s salvation, e.g. what one believes concerning either conclusion has no relation to that of receiving salvation but rather that of growing in the faith of salvation.

Looking at the ED of Romans 10:9, I believe the phrase “confess with your mouth that Jesus is the Lord” means to admit in your communication (signing for the impaired) that He is the Savior (Christ - sole source of redemption -1John 2:22). “Believe in your heart” to me means to always accept as true. “That God has raised Him from the dead” is a twofold conclusion in that believing in His resurrection presumes the ED concerning His incarnation (1John 4:3; 2John 1:7).

In my opinion, those who communicate with respect and kindness are the only ones who will increase their understanding (regardless of their knowledge of Scripture) in the Word of God because it shows their intentions are not out of opposition to one another, but to learn “the Word of truth.” My reason for sharing this article is not only for attempting to be instructional but more importantly so that we will remember the primary reason for learning God’s truths, to “come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ” (Eph 4:13 NLT), which sole standard is love to one another (John 15:12). The more we prioritize love to others as our motive in everything, the greater will be our practical love for God, regardless of the zeal for love to Him (1John 4:20).


For Christ’s Sake (Rom 15:30; 1Co 4:10; 2Co 12:10; Eph 4:32)

If we really love the Lord we will listen to Him and do what He says!

And it is written that He reproves those He loves. But we don't like reproof. So it is not about just tell someone else what they want to hear but it is about turning people to the Lord so He can make a difference in them by personally talking to Him. He is the first! So is "The first is everyone believing the same doctrine" correct? I don't think so. The first thing is believing in Jesus Christ. And His name is called "The Word of God", because He talks to us via the Holy Spirit!

So concerning Him being our Lord; that means He gives us instructions which we should hear and try to follow through on." And if you have studied the Scriptures you have seen that because God reproves those He loves, it doesn't always come across and nice as we might think it should.

For example, John the Baptist said, "You Vipers", and Jesus said he was right to do so. But I would think anyone doing that on this forum would be rebuked for writing in such a way. Paul wrote to the Galatians, "who has bewitched you" and that doesn't sound all that nice either.

I remember the pastor at our church saying plainly that God does not curse anyone, but Malachi was very bold in quoting God as saying, "And now this commandment is for you, O priests. If you do not listen, and if you do not take it to heart to give honor to My name," says the Lord of hosts, "then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings; and indeed, I have cursed them already, because you are not taking it to heart. Behold, I am going to rebuke your offspring, and I will spread refuse on your faces. (Mal 2:1-3)

God is love, but love is not always what we think it is going to be. And that is a problem is we assume that because something didn't come across loving enough in our opinion it is not from God. That does not mean I am suggesting being rude, but I am suggest we all need to take all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ and hear what He actually has to say to us about them! That' what it means to call Him our Lord. Malachi put it like this:

Mal 2:7 For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

We have been sent the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ, who does not speak on His own initiative, but as He hears He speaks. So we should seek instruction from his mouth, because He is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. And unity, by the way, comes in the body of Christ if everyone is seeking and getting instructions from Him. It does not come by leaning on our own understanding.

So if by writing "Essential doctrines (ED) are those which Scripture teaches concerning the requirements of receiving salvation; nonessential doctrines (ND) are teachings that are not related to receiving salvation but to increasing the strength of faith in salvation, i.e. spiritual growth in our understanding of Scripture (an unceasing progression)" we mean turning to the voice of the Lord and listening to Him ( and it is written they will all be taught of God), ok. But the Scriptures don't teach us, He our Lord teaches us. He will almost certainly use the Scriptures and talk to us about them, but He made all things. So it didn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't mean to be offensive, but I do mean to point people to the Lord Jesus Christ as indeed someone who did raise from the dead and so can be inquired of, learned from, and who we can get instructions from!

 

[netchaplain]

Due to many misunderstanding the title of my article I found it necessary to post an attempt to explain it (which to me bears repeating where I have already mention this). All doctrine is essential, but not all doctrine concerns the same issue, i.e. to receive salvation it is required (essential doctrine) that one believe in Christ’s expiation for our sin, but believing or not believing in, let’s say OSAS or God’s omniscience concerning all things, is not required (nonessential doctrine) to receive salvation.

I think differentiating between these two issues (being saved and growing in the strength of faith) will aid us more in how we share our beliefs.

God Bless Us

 

[netchaplain]

So if by writing "Essential doctrines (ED) are those which Scripture teaches concerning the requirements of receiving salvation; nonessential doctrines (ND) are teachings that are not related to receiving salvation but to increasing the strength of faith in salvation, i.e. spiritual growth in our understanding of Scripture (an unceasing progression)" we mean turning to the voice of the Lord and listening to Him ( and it is written they will all be taught of God), ok

Hi K2CHRIST - Thanks for your input. Yes that is my intention, and I believe the best way to "hear God's voice" is through His Word! Wouldn't you agree?

Blessings!

 

[K2CHRIST]

Jesus Christ is the Word of God. That is His name. The best way to hear from the Lord is to hear from the Lord with our spiritual ears. Now the first words I heard from the Lord were, "Read your Bible". It was an instruction from Him and daily He gives me instructions. Those who wrote the Bible heard words from Him! We need to do the same.

Of course the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit, and the Bible is thus useful in helping us make sure we are indeed hearing form Him. For example 1 Jn 4 :1-3 tells us how to test the spirits, but to use that test you have to be able to hear with your spiritual ears. Reading the Bible is not hearing from God, but you might hear from God while reading the Bible. He tells often tells me where to read when I read my Bible. Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, and also that He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone (as in anyone) hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them. So anyone can hear His voice. God is spirit. And we can hear from Him.

I get up most mornings and tell Him, "Good morning Lord." or perhaps "Do I have to get up now, Lord", and I always hear a response. I don't know what it is going to be until I hear it, but I hear Him. He really does exists, and He really does what us to listen to and seek His voice, which can be heard.

So if you are saying that we hear God's voice through His Scriptures, I full disagree. I would expect you would hear God's voice while reading the Scriptures, but reading the Scriptures is not the same thing as hearing God. Note: The devil also quoted Scriptures, and the religious leaders at the time Christ came in the flesh read and studied the Scriptures but Jesus told them they did not hear His voice. So be careful in assuming that reading the Scriptures is hearing from Him.

Isaiah put is this way, (Is 30:20,21 NASB) ... He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher. Yours ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

We are told to pray that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven! We should be hearing from the Lord, even as often as which way to turn when we turn to the right or to the left. We should hear that, teachings, wisdom, knowledge, and much more from Him. We are supposed to be in a close personal relationship with someone you never leaves us. He is our Lord if we are getting instructions from Him.

So I hear Him give me instructions when I go to the store shopping. I often hear Him telling me what clothes to wear. I go to the church I do because He told me. I suggested another church to Him, but He told me He needed me at this one. I help in a healing ministry because He specifically told me to. He want me in a different ministry, but it seemed like too much ministry for me, so He adjusted His instructions to me to the healing ministry. He cares for me, so He considers my opinions, but He is still my Lord and so while I talk to Him and tell Him what I think, I still want to do what He tells me.

Our God is real. We need to seek Him!