Eternal Security of the Believer !

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A person's sinful actions judge him.
No person currently alive on earth can have absolute certainty that he will inherit eternal life after he dies.

Then I can only conclude that such views can not speak with confidence. The only absolute assurance that you speak is the absolute assurance of uncertainty.

1 John 4:
16 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

A person must remain faithful to God's commandments until he dies if he desires to enter into eternal life.

The commands are easy, His burden is LIGHT.

Jesus gives us the criterion for admittance into eternal life:

Many have constructed various 'checklists.'

Here is the checklist of honesty that God in Christ has delivered to those in Truth, and I speak of this matter, knowing that it is from this fact that God pours forth His Divine Eternal Mercy.

I have sin. Sin begins on the inside with sin/evil thoughts that are sin and are from the entrance of the tempter therein, in my own heart. I know this to be a fact of scripture and a fact of reality.

There is no Grace, no Mercy to that working, period, nor will there be EVER.

No amount of religious GARB will dodge these matters. Faith leads to honesty and honesty speaks the facts.

Jesus never, ever lies.

How God in Christ deals the believers and how God deals with the tempter are two entirely different workings. What is LIFE to us is DEATH to the other working.

IF a person is condemned, he is definitely going into the lake of fire.

You can make any claims you want. Fact is your sect carries almost every believer to the gate of hell to await the eternal damnation you bear in your own heart to believers.

That speaks volumes to me. It is nothing more than a reflection within your own heart being exposed on the outside so other believers can see it. I don't recall you or your sect being called into the Eternal Judgment Seat of eternal damnation in flames to other believers being provided to you anywhere in the text.

Yet there you sit, not even knowing if you yourself are saved, yet assured that everyone not in your sect is assuredly damned for eternity.

That's assurance in some folks eyes. The assurance of eternal damnation to other believers, proclaiming that to be LIFE and LOVE.

I'd push that head a little deeper into the mud if it were allowed.

enjoy!

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[Elijah674]

A person's sinful actions judge him.

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.â€

Titus 3:10-11 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

No person currently alive on earth can have absolute certainty that he will inherit eternal life after he dies. A person must remain faithful to God's commandments until he dies if he desires to enter into eternal life.

Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Jesus gives us the criterion for admittance into eternal life:

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.â€


Jesus never, ever lies.
IF a person is condemned, he is definitely going into the lake of fire.

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—

Hi, good material.. but how about you & 'i' with these dozens & doezens of Titus 3:10-11 Truth of once or twice??? I say this because some might wonder about it? But when we see many 'hits' per/postings from sincere ones just viewing (or might be sincere) looking for truth, we are obligated to let them see objections to this OSAS false teaching. (and that it is nothing personal, just fact!)

And one of the best doctrinal teachings come from Christ Himself in....

Luke 12
[45] But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
[46] The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and [[will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers]].
[47] And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and [[prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes]].
[48] But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

And the Inspiration of Heb. 6:1-6 is just as clear of who God will judge the most guilty in hell's final FINISH! (of Obad. 1:16)

Heb. 6
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and [[were made partakers of the Holy Ghost]],
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; [[seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame]].

And the teaching of OSAS is doing just that! Peter through Inspiration has it said just as plain...

2 Peter 2
[19] While [[they promise them liberty]], (OSAS) they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[22] But [[it is happened]] unto them according to the [[true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire]].

No, hell will be having very many preachers + being blotted out of existance while they had known of their very false teachings! And fals teachings are much more than just this OSAS stuff.

--Elijah

 

[JMJ]

For smaller:

I will address the following passage you posted in your last post and then we will have to agree to disagree about the rest of your post:

1 John 4:
16 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.
17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

One verse at a time:

16 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God:

How do we live in love?

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.â€

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

John 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

1 John 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

2 John 1:6 This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

Romans 13:10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

A person who does harm to his neighbor, does not live in love and so he also does not live in God. God does not abide/remain in people who do not obey His commandments.

17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.

A person who harms his neighbor is not like Jesus and so he will not have confidence on the day of judgment. Instead, he will be ashamed.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love

A person who harms his neighbor by adultery or fornication does not abide in Christ. He disqualifies himself by his sin. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey, He does not abide/remain in those who sin mortal sins (sins leading to death). Venial sins are not spiritually deadly sins and are not sins leading to death. Mortal sins disqualify us from receiving the crown of eternal life unless they are repented before death.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.

A person who harms his neighbor has not been made perfect in love. He will be ashamed of his sinfulness when Jesus appears at His Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This person will not receive the crown of eternal life because he harmed his neighbor instead of helping him. His sinful action against his neighbor also proves that he does not love God.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

God approves the crowns of eternal life for only the persons who love/obey Him!

 

[JMJ]

Elijah:

Thank you for your kind words.

Scripture is difficult to understand. Hyperbole or exaggeration is sometimes used as a means to vividly stress a point.

One of my favorites is:

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

What He is really saying is: You must choose to obey Me rather than choose to please any other persons in your life if pleasing them causes you to disobey Me. ...... Adam got us all in a heap of trouble when he chose to please Eve by eating the forbidden fruit rather than to obey God's command to not eat the forbidden fruit! :D

Another example of hyperbole is:

Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.â€

God preferred Jacob to become Israel rather than Esau. God did not literally hate Esau. God loves every person He creates, even Cain and Pharaoh! They chose to disobey. The Israelites used to attribute to God's sovereign will their own free will actions. So, it was written in Scripture that "the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart." But, in reality, Pharaoh hardened his own heart against God and the Israelites.

We, all of us on this forum, must be very careful not to judge others. Only God sees our hearts and only He can judge each person's intentions.

Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

You quoted a portion of Luke 12:40-48 and so you know that a person can be very sincere in his beliefs, yet misinformed. Many people on this forum want to please God to the best of their ability. If these persons' theology is incorrect, God will not judge them the same as persons who knowingly mislead others.

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

It is so easy for me to be a hypocrite.

But, I also know that as long as I constantly strive to enter through the narrow gate into heaven by obeying God's commandments to the best of my ability, God will supply the graces I need to enter through this narrow gate when I die.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

I don't think that I will have time to post on the forum this week. I'll catch up with you all later.....

 

[smaller]

For smaller:

I will address the following passage you posted in your last post and then we will have to agree to disagree about the rest of your post:

One verse at a time:

How do we live in love?

A person who does harm to his neighbor, does not live in love and so he also does not live in God. God does not abide/remain in people who do not obey His commandments.
A person who harms his neighbor is not like Jesus and so he will not have confidence on the day of judgment. Instead, he will be ashamed.

A person who harms his neighbor by adultery or fornication does not abide in Christ. He disqualifies himself by his sin. The Holy Spirit is only given to those who obey, He does not abide/remain in those who sin mortal sins (sins leading to death). Venial sins are not spiritually deadly sins and are not sins leading to death. Mortal sins disqualify us from receiving the crown of eternal life unless they are repented before death.

A person who harms his neighbor has not been made perfect in love. He will be ashamed of his sinfulness when Jesus appears at His Second Coming to judge the living and the dead. This person will not receive the crown of eternal life because he harmed his neighbor instead of helping him. His sinful action against his neighbor also proves that he does not love God.

God approves the crowns of eternal life for only the persons who love/obey Him!

You must think other believers are ignorant. You come claiming every believer not under the rule and authority of your sect are dangling at the gate of HELL and you expect me to buy your tales of that not being EVIL?

Get a clue.

You don't even know if you yourself are saved. Yet you know that the group of men you gather under, who can't even determine their own salvation, have 'infallible' positions?!

Brooklyn Bridge meet theology. Or P.T. Barnum.

s

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah:

Thank you for your kind words.

Scripture is difficult to understand. Hyperbole or exaggeration is sometimes used as a means to vividly stress a point.

One of my favorites is:

Luke 14:26 If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

What He is really saying is: You must choose to obey Me rather than choose to please any other persons in your life if pleasing them causes you to disobey Me. ...... Adam got us all in a heap of trouble when he chose to please Eve by eating the forbidden fruit rather than to obey God's command to not eat the forbidden fruit! :D

Another example of hyperbole is:

Romans 9:13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.â€

God preferred Jacob to become Israel rather than Esau. God did not literally hate Esau. God loves every person He creates, even Cain and Pharaoh! They chose to disobey. The Israelites used to attribute to God's sovereign will their own free will actions. So, it was written in Scripture that "the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart." But, in reality, Pharaoh hardened his own heart against God and the Israelites.

We, all of us on this forum, must be very careful not to judge others. Only God sees our hearts and only He can judge each person's intentions.

Romans 12:18 If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.

You quoted a portion of Luke 12:40-48 and so you know that a person can be very sincere in his beliefs, yet misinformed. Many people on this forum want to please God to the best of their ability. If these persons' theology is incorrect, God will not judge them the same as persons who knowingly mislead others.

Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

It is so easy for me to be a hypocrite.

But, I also know that as long as I constantly strive to enter through the narrow gate into heaven by obeying God's commandments to the best of my ability, God will supply the graces I need to enter through this narrow gate when I die.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

I don't think that I will have time to post on the forum this week. I'll catch up with you all later.....

Hi again. I agree quite heavily Most of all boards postors seem to take things posted as personal. But perhaps our posts (yours & mine) do not see my content either? The Lord surely has one (us) JUDGE 'content' as 'i' see it. It is the person & his motive that we do not know as I see it. 1 Cor. 6:3-4

I find that I am 'LOVINGLY' duty/bound to call the many false doctrines as such.
And in the same token it is very hard to have any postperson not think that you are talking of them. (yet, we do all have a conscience to be directed by. Rom. 8:14)

--Elijah

 

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Hi again. I agree quite heavily Most of all boards postors seem to take things posted as personal. But perhaps our posts (yours & mine) do not see my content either? The Lord surely has one (us) JUDGE 'content' as 'i' see it. It is the person & his motive that we do not know as I see it. 1 Cor. 6:3-4

I find that I am 'LOVINGLY' duty/bound to call the many false doctrines as such.
And in the same token it is very hard to have any postperson not think that you are talking of them. (yet, we do all have a conscience to be directed by. Rom. 8:14)

--Elijah

There is quite a simple measure put forth in scripture about 'obedience' to see who is or is not 'In Truth.'

Fact is we can not say we 'have' no sin and be 'in Truth.'

Those who claim to dodge this fact are not speaking honestly.

s

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Just shall live by Faith !


People talk about Believers or those Christ died for can turn from the Faith ! That is crazy, and it dishonors the Work of Christ.

There is nothing more sure than a promise from God's word. One of the promises is this Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The promise is that the Just shall Live by Faith. Now who are the Just here ? The Just are all those Christ by His One Obedience made Just or Righteous.

The greek word for Just is diðkaiov and means:

righteous, observing divine laws
in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

It is translated righteous 41 times in the NT, to include here Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Or made Just !

This means, everyone Christ died for shall Live by Faith in order to manifest the effects of His One Obedience.

To live by Faith in Rom 1:17 is in the future indicative mood which means:

The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

In other words, its a statement of Fact that all whom Christ died for shall live by Faith ! If one, after converted, shall depart from the Faith, this makes this promise of non effect ! It also means Christ death lost its effectiveness, since it was His Death that causes it in the First Place.

 

[Elijah674]

The Just shall live by Faith !


People talk about Believers or those Christ died for can turn from the Faith ! That is crazy, and it dishonors the Work of Christ.

There is nothing more sure than a promise from God's word. One of the promises is this Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The promise is that the Just shall Live by Faith. Now who are the Just here ? The Just are all those Christ by His One Obedience made Just or Righteous.

The greek word for Just is diðkaiov and means:

righteous, observing divine laws
in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

It is translated righteous 41 times in the NT, to include here Rom 5:19

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Or made Just !

This means, everyone Christ died for shall Live by Faith in order to manifest the effects of His One Obedience.

To live by Faith in Rom 1:17 is in the future indicative mood which means:

The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.

In other words, its a statement of Fact that all whom Christ died for shall live by Faith ! If one, after converted, shall depart from the Faith, this makes this promise of non effect ! It also means Christ death lost its effectiveness, since it was His Death that causes it in the First Place.

:robot This is 'braindead' theology! God says that.. 'The just shall live by faith'.

By faith has one LOVINGLY living in OBEDIENCE to the faith that He (God)[[REQUIRES!]] Acts 5:32!!

All other OSAS stuffings are what is known as 'hobby/horse' over & over Eccl. 3:15 [[REPEATING ONES SELF]] until it is thought to be truth. But it is nothing of the sort! for all mankind were made in the image of God with a brain that could 'think'. (but these reams & reams of [[postings]] do cause one to wonder about 'a few ones' out there!?? :headbang:

And the post says: ... 'In other words, its a statement of Fact that all whom Christ died for shall live by Faith !' That say's what?? that post has NO TRUTH at all, Christ died that all might be saved!

Surely the Heb. 6:1-6 ones were ones that He had died for.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and [[were made partakers of the Holy Ghost]],
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; [[seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh]], and [[put him to an open shame]].2

And verse 6 not only call's satans stuff anti/christ, (this false posting) but also he brings the Eccl. 3:15 repeat crucifixion of [[our]] Master in [[OPEN POSTED DOCUMENTATION!]]

And God's Inspiration through Peter in 2 Peter 2:19-22 tell of these ones who even do this of promiseing 'them liberty' with no sign of guilt, but just [ONLY BELIEVE'ISM]2 + 'BUT IT IS HAPPENED..' + the braindead 'dog IS TURNED TO his own vomit [[[again]]]..'!

But whatever? It appears that there is 'JUST' no more hope for these ones? See Gen. 6:3 forum.

--Elijah

 

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:robot This is 'braindead' theology! God says that.. 'The just shall live by faith'.

By faith has one LOVINGLY living in OBEDIENCE to the faith that He (God)[[REQUIRES!]] Acts 5:32!!

All other OSAS stuffings are what is known as 'hobby/horse' over & over Eccl. 3:15 [[REPEATING ONES SELF]] until it is thought to be truth. But it is nothing of the sort! for all mankind were made in the image of God with a brain that could 'think'. (but these reams & reams of [[postings]] do cause one to wonder about 'a few ones' out there!?? :headbang:

Does your belief via faith lead you to doubt your salvation as in 'maybe having it, maybe not?' Are we to somehow find celebration in the guarantee of uncertainty and call that working faith? To what point?

Many sects sell exactly these positions:

> The absolute assurance of DOUBT
> The guarantee of UNCERTAINTY
> Unknowable Salvation

Have you not read?

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damnedif he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

s

 

[JMJ]

Hi again. I agree quite heavily Most of all boards postors seem to take things posted as personal. But perhaps our posts (yours & mine) do not see my content either? The Lord surely has one (us) JUDGE 'content' as 'i' see it. It is the person & his motive that we do not know as I see it. 1 Cor. 6:3-4

I find that I am 'LOVINGLY' duty/bound to call the many false doctrines as such.
And in the same token it is very hard to have any postperson not think that you are talking of them. (yet, we do all have a conscience to be directed by. Rom. 8:14)

--Elijah

Hi Elijah,

Although I am not an apostle like Paul, I do not take people's judgments about me personally. I have developed a Teflon skin towards those persons who call me a liar, towards those persons who tell me that I am going to hell because I do not believe the same way they do, and towards those persons who self-righteously condemn me as soon as they find out that I am a Catholic. Time will tell whether God approves of me or not.

Many people do not have correctly formed consciences. We are required by God to do our best to find the Truth. That is why Jesus states:

Luke 13:23-24 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?†And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Here is my prayer for all people:

May all people come to know, love, and serve God in the manner that He desires to be known, loved, and served.

 

[Webb]

Right on WestTexas!

 

[JMJ]

Have you not read?

Romans 14:23
And he that doubteth is damnedif he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

s

The context is important:

13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding. 20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

The key is this: For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. We are commanded to live by faith. Our decisions in life should be made according to God's will for us. His will is also His commands. We live by faith when we obey His commandments.

Hebrews 10:38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

If the righteous person reverts back to unrighteousness because he chose to sin, he is no longer saved.

We have hope of eternal life while we are alive on earth.

Titus 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Have you ever hoped for something but never received it? I have.

I hoped to win the Powerball lottery, but alas I did not win. My hope was in vain. :D

2 Peter 1:10-11 (TNIV) Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.


When a person sins spiritually deadly sins, he has not held firmly to the Word of God. He has disobeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 (NIV) God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

I do not know for sure if I will enter into eternal life or not after I die. Time will tell. I will do the following in order to stay on the right path so that I can enter through the narrow gate into heaven after I die:

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

 

[savedbygrace57]

A New Creation !


Many so called christians have taught or believe that a believer in Christ, one who has been born of God, a New Creation, can be lost ! They teach that one can renounce their Faith, and become lost again.

They teach this in spite of clear scripture that one who is saved is a New Creation 2 Cor 5:17

17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The words New Creature are important here. The first word New is the greek word kainos and means:


new

a) as respects form

1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn

b) as respects substance

1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

The word new here is " of a new kind" its a New Kind of Man as Per Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

The New man was Created by God ! The word created here in Eph 4:24 is from the same word in 2 Cor 5:17 for creature !

Its the word ktisis and means:


the act of founding, establishing, building etc

a) the act of creating, creation

b) creation i.e. thing created

1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation

a) anything created

b) after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called)

c) the sum or aggregate of things created

c) institution, ordinance

The Thing Created is the New person, Individual !

God says of them Isa 43:7

Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

He is speaking of Christians here, those called by His Name ! This did not apply to men in Adam, for men in Adam were never called by His Name.

Now, if the New Creation was made as the Old Creation was, and the New Creation of God can also depart from God as the Old One did in Adam, then God is a Failure ! Then that leaves man without any hope or security. God's Glory is in Jeopardy every moment, because who knows when His New Creation will decide to depart from His Ways !

Folks, this is what false religionists would have us conclude about the Salvation of God, about His New Creation in Christ. May God deal with them for this Blasphemy in the Day of Judgment !

 

[Elijah674]

Hi Elijah,

Although I am not an apostle like Paul, I do not take people's judgments about me personally. I have developed a Teflon skin towards those persons who call me a liar, towards those persons who tell me that I am going to hell because I do not believe the same way they do, and towards those persons who self-righteously condemn me as soon as they find out that I am a Catholic. Time will tell whether God approves of me or not.

Many people do not have correctly formed consciences. We are required by God to do our best to find the Truth. That is why Jesus states:

Luke 13:23-24 And someone said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?†And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Here is my prayer for all people:

May all people come to know, love, and serve God in the manner that He desires to be known, loved, and served.

Hi, you seem to be of the right motive. The Born Again one of LOVE. Surely Christ made SALVATION SIMPLE in His Truth of.. [IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS]. We see this is the Only Question asked of Him when He comes shortly! Eccl. 12:13-14 (nothing about eternal security!)

And the ones that were/of Rev. 17:1-5 will do as He COMMANDS in Rev. 18:4 if still alive at that time? And your prayer will be answered by these Rev. 18:4 ones theirselves, huh?

--Elijah

 

[pHghost]

If the doctrine of eternal security is true, what is this verse about?

My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, he should know that the one who turns a sinner back from his wandering path will save that person's soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)

 

[MithrandirOlorin]

I believe in Eternal Security, but not the Calvinist version of it.

Saved people can Sin and Fall way, they'll lose their Incoherence but not their Salvation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

If the doctrine of eternal security is true, what is this verse about?

My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, he should know that the one who turns a sinner back from his wandering path will save that person's soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins. (James 5:19-20)

That proves that one who is Truly saved cannot be Lost. God gives them repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth even after they have been influenced by false teaching. 2 Tim 2:25-26


25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

So is it possible for a True Believer to become influenced by false teaching, the devil's ministers, of course. Many of Pauls letters dealt with that, however, we have God's Promise to His Own:

2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

You do not believe in God's Faithfulness to do that, its pretty obvious !

 

[pHghost]

That proves that one who is Truly saved cannot be Lost. God gives them repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth even after they have been influenced by false teaching. 2 Tim 2:25-26


25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The key word to understanding the text is may. It does not say they will recover themselves, nor that they will keep themselves out of the snare of the devil, but that they might. Also, note it says "they may recover themselves" and not that God will recover them. It is through his grace that we may do so, but whether we do and whether we stay in that state is only up to us.

So is it possible for a True Believer to become influenced by false teaching, the devil's ministers, of course. Many of Pauls letters dealt with that, however, we have God's Promise to His Own:

2 Thess 3:3

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

You do not believe in God's Faithfulness to do that, its pretty obvious !

Now here, the word keep is used. But, in the context of the text, it means something slightly different than if there was keep in the previous passage, and you need only look to other translations or the original texts to understand.

Often, the word used here is protect -- same as in the Lord's prayer. God does that, he protects us, but he still doesn't take away our free will to abandon him. The problem with these verses is that you need to give them that meaning yourself, it is not contained there directly, nowhere in the Bible is it directly written that "once saved, always saved," it is a matter of chosen interpretation. Contrary to that, there are verses that very directly say the opposite.

The verse from James I shared already is one of them:

My brothers and sisters, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, he should know that the one who turns a sinner back from his wandering path will save that person's soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
(James 5:20)

That passage directly says that if the other does NOT turn him back, the penalty for the fallen will be death.

Secondly:

You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(Galatians 5:4)

Very clear. I don't think that even needs a comment.

 

[savedbygrace57]

ph

The key word to understanding the text is may. It does not say they
will recover themselves,

Yes it does, thats the sure effect of God gigivinghem repentance, if they do not recover themselves, God has failed. Thats how they recover themselves, by God's power,, in fact it is actually God recovering them ! " turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the LORD my God."

Now here, the word keep is used. But, in the context of the text, it means
something slightly different than if there was keep in the previous passage,

Thats right, God keeps His People from all evil, it also states that God will stablish you. The word stablish is the greek word sterizo and means:

to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix

2) to strengthen, make firm

3) to render constant, confirm, one's mind

God will make them constant which means He will cause them to be :

faithful; unswerving

If you do not believe this, you do not believe in God and His Truth ! He promises to strengthen them, and make them firm !

Thats a Covenant Blessing spoken of here Jer 32:40

And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

All those are God's Promises, you reject this, you have no True Faith in God !