Eternal Security of the Believer !

[savedbygrace57]

If John did not believe in the Eternal Security of God's Beloved Children, then why did He write this ? 1 Jn 3:1-2

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

First all, How can He Know anything for certain ? How dose He know for certain that when Christ shall appear, that we shall be Like Him ? Did John know that none would backslide and loose their salvation ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

Eternal Redemption for Us !


Heb 9:12

12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

This Eternal Redemption for all whom Christ died, it ensures for them Eternal Glory ! The word redemption here means:

a ransoming, redemption

2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Its an everlasting deliverance from the penalty of sin ! No sin can ever be laid to the charge of God's Elect !

So all these are Called unto obtaining their Eternal Inheritance Heb 9:15

15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Paul says it like this elsewhere 1 Thess 2:12

That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Peter writes 1 Pet 5:10

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Have it Now and Secure !


Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

True Believers, that Believe on Jesus Christ, the True Christ, hath now, in reality Eternal or Everlasting Life, Its not something just to look forward too in the future, notice Jesus words, in the original it would read:

He that is Hearing my word and believing on Him that sent me,is having Everlasting Life. Believing on Him is proof that they are having or are in a state of Eternal Life, which means Born Again. However, notice what He goes on to promise about these having Everlasting Life presently, He says:

They shall not come into condemnation ! Meaning they shall never perish, They will not come into condemnation at the Judgment, but will be made evident to all that they have been acquitted of all sins, and accepted as Righteous for Christ's Sake.

This lets us know that Believers, True Believers are not in danger of Apostasy or ever Perishing ! It confirms what's said about the Believers in Jn 3:16, " should not Perish "

 

[savedbygrace57]

Grace must Reign unto them !


Rom 5:20-21

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sin and its consequences can never defeat or be victotious over Grace, thats like saying that adam is victorious over Christ or the devil is victorious over Christ: For deaths reign comes by one adam's sin or act, however Life and Grace comes by Christ's one act.

Now though Grace will constantly be at war with that principle of sin and death in the believers members, those enemies can never expel Grace, hence a Just Man falls seven times scripture says, but each time the Lord will raise him up Prov 24:16

For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

 

[westtexas]

This lets us know that Believers, True Believers are not in danger of Apostasy

1 Tim. 4:1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith,..." NASB

 

[JMJ]

1 Tim. 4:1 "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith,..." NASB

True!

A person cannot fall away from the faith unless he first believed and was faithful.

Faith cannot be lost unless it existed first. A person cannot lose something he never had in his possession. Fall away from the faith means to lose salvation. If a person loses his salvation, he will not inherit eternal life.

Jesus tells us in Luke 8:13
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

If a believer falls away from the faith he is no longer saved. A believer falls away from the faith when he chooses to sin against God's commandments. A believer continues in the faith when he steadfastly obeys God's commandments.

There will be many born again Christians who will be dismayed on their judgment day because Jesus will not approve of them and so they will not inherit eternal life.

Matthew 7:20-23 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Lawlessness is sin. 1 John 3:4 For example: Many Christian pastors will lose their salvation because they will not repent of their sins of pedophilia, pornography, adultery or fornication, etc., before they die.

Even though these Christian pastors taught the Word of God to others, they did not practice/do the Word of God themselves. They deceive themselves when they believe that they will still be saved when they die even though they have sinned the sins that cause condemnation to hell. They will not inherit eternal life after death if they do not repent of these sins before they die.

James 1:21-22 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, quarreling, rivalry, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envying, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and such like. About these things I tell you again, as I have also told you in times past, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Believers fall away from the faith when they choose to commit sin. Because they chose to sin one or more of the sins listed above, they are no longer saved and so they will not inherit eternal life after they die.

Jesus' sacrifice on the cross no longer saves believers when they deliberately sin against His commandments after they became Christians. Instead, they can expect hell-fire (unless they repent again before death).

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin willfully (deliberately) after having received the knowledge of the truth (after becoming born again), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Believers who sin lose their salvation. They are no longer believers even if they continue to believe that they are believers. They deceive themselves. After death, these fallen away believers will enter into hell-fire instead of heaven unless they repent of their sins and then remain faithful to God's commandments until they die.

Obedience makes a person a believer. Sin/disobedience makes a person an unbeliever.

The Israelites were not allowed into the Promised Land because of their unbelief/disobedience and neither will fallen away Christians enter into heaven because of their unbelief/disobedience.

A person must be faithful to God's commandments until death if he desires to enter into eternal life.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Shall not come into condemnation !


If one could be Truly saved, a Believer in Christ, and then somehow be lost and condemned for sin, Then Jesus lied his tail off here Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[JMJ]

Shall not come into condemnation !


If one could be Truly saved, a Believer in Christ, and then somehow be lost and condemned for sin, Then Jesus lied his tail off here Jn 5:24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

A person does not really believe in Jesus Christ unless he also obeys His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

A born again person continues his justification/salvation by continued obedience to God's commandments.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

A born again person who continues his justification by obeying God's commandments until he dies will be approved by God to enter into eternal life. A born again person who does not continue to obey God's commandments until he dies will not be approved by God to enter into eternal life.

Jude 1:17-24 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction; 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Jesus never ever lies:

Matthew 19:16-19 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

According to Jesus, if a person wants to enter into eternal life after he dies, he must keep/obey God's commandments until he dies.

 

[childeye]

The only eternal security of the believer is that God is Good.

 

[westtexas]

If one could be Truly saved, a Believer in Christ, and then somehow be lost and condemned for sin, Then Jesus lied his tail off here Jn 5:24

No he didn't. The verse you have quoted says "and BELIEVES him who sent Me, has eternal life". What do you think happens to a believer, who as you say is truly saved, who quits believing? Not a believer who sins-we all do that. But a believer who renounces his faith and walks away. Is he still saved?
Westtexas

 

[savedbygrace57]

No he didn't. The verse you have quoted says "and BELIEVES him who sent Me, has eternal life". What do you think happens to a believer, who as you say is truly saved, who quits believing? Not a believer who sins-we all do that. But a believer who renounces his faith and walks away. Is he still saved?
Westtexas

Jn 5:24 is pretty plain, I already explained it !

I will add further, When Jesus said that they had been passed from death unto Life, He means it is Permanent, the word passed in the greek is in the perfect tense, denoting a completed action in the past, with results into the present, never to be repeated again ! You couple that with Jesus promise, they shall not come into condemnation, thats Security for the believer !

 

[westtexas]

Jn 5:24 is pretty plain, I already explained it !

I will add further, When Jesus said that they had been passed from death unto Life, He means it is Permanent, the word passed in the greek is in the perfect tense, denoting a completed action in the past, with results into the present, never to be repeated again ! You couple that with Jesus promise, they shall not come into condemnation, thats Security for the believer !

You haven't answered my question. In John 5:24 the word "pisteuon-believes" is a present active participle. It denotes an action that is currently taking place. "....and BELIEVES Him who has sent Me, has eternal life...." We have eternal life when we believe.
What happens to a believer who renounces his faith and walks away? Is he saved?

Edited to add: I'm not trying to be divisive. With such theological heavyweights as Spurgeon and Wesley on opposite sides of this discussion I'm sure you and I won't resolve this one either. Hopefully we can have a mutually respectful discussion. For the record, I do not agree with the OSAS doctrine.
Westtexas

 

[Broncobilly1972]

Eternal salvation?

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 5:3-5 KJV)



Sure sounds like a warning to me

What is the difference in following and abiding?

Let's compare a couple of things

First when Satan tempted Eve, what was his first question.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (Genesis 3:1 KJV)

First he questions Gods words, His only commandment in the garden. All He wanted from them was obedience.

Next he tells Eve why she doesn't have to obey.

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. (Genesis 3:1, 4, 5 KJV)

All God wanted was obedience, the same obedience you want from your children. If you tell them not to play in the road. You tell them that for their own safety.
Obey or you will die.

Did God really say we have to keep His commandments?

If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15 KJV)

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:10 KJV)

Once Adam and Eve disobeyed the only command given by God they could no longer abide with Him, and were cursed to to til the ground, and live by the sweat of their brow.

Please understand, I am not saying you should run out and quit your job if you work on the sabbath. Take a few moments and lets think about it. Read Paul's writings, read peters writings, in fact read the whole of the new testament and consider what they called work. Paul made tents, why? To support his work. His work, even our work is a spiritual work.

For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (Hebrews 4:8, 9 KJV)

We are supposed to be building a spiritual kingdom, we all have work to do. But it seems we argue amongst ourselves more than doing any work.

Second, do not covet

For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. (1 Corinthians 12:14-23 KJV)

Do not want what is not yours, take what you are given and use it. If you're faithful you can be given more. If not it will be taken from you. Look at Simon the sorcerer. We have many of him today in our churches.

Please ask for understanding, and learn to abide, not just follow.











Did God really say you have t

 

[savedbygrace57]

west

You haven't answered my question.

I did, its obvious. A True believer cannot Leave the Faith !

 

[westtexas]

A True believer cannot Leave the Faith !

I think scripture disagrees with you. Too many verses say otherwise. This one was brought up earlier in this thread and I didn't see a response from you.

"1 Tim. 4:1---But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith,..." NASB

You can't fall away from something you've never obtained so the argument that they weren't true believers doesn't work.
Any thoughts? Westtexas

 

[JMJ]

No he didn't. The verse you have quoted says "and BELIEVES him who sent Me, has eternal life". What do you think happens to a believer, who as you say is truly saved, who quits believing? Not a believer who sins-we all do that. But a believer who renounces his faith and walks away. Is he still saved?
Westtexas

A person renounces his faith when he sins against God's commandments. I am speaking of sins leading to death such as adultery and fornication; I am not speaking about sins not leading to death. Sins leading to death cause the loss of righteousness. Sins not leading to death do not cause the loss of righteousness.

Titus 1:15-16 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. 16 They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

Matthew 10:33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

There is no belief in God without obedience to God's commandments.

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[savedbygrace57]

They shall never perish !


They shall never perish ! True Believers, those Jesus laid down His Life for Jn 10:11,16,26, shall never perish, they shall continue in the Faith all the days of their Lives, for it is promised that the Just shall live by Faith Rom 1:16-17

16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

They shall live by Faith is in the indicative mood, meaning it is a certain fact. It also is in the future tense.

Jn 10:27-28

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

They live out of faith, and if need be they die in faith Heb 11:13

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

If and when Christ returns He will find Faith in the Earth Lk 18:7-8

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

8I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

He will find the Faith of His very own Elect Matt 24:31

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[westtexas]

They shall never perish !
Jn 10:27-28

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

I'll address all your sets of verses 1 at a time but none of them have done anything to support the doctrine of OSAS. In this verse, just as in the verse in John 5 that you provided earlier, every verb (hear, know and follow) is in the present active tense. Just as in John 5 it denotes an action that is currently taking place. As long as we are believing, hearing, following, etc., scripture promises us eternal life.
I'll let you prove me wrong but I don't believe you can post scripture that says someone who has believed (in the past tense) and has quit believing is still promised eternal life. I'll provide numerous scriptures to the contrary though. I believe scripture says you can walk away from the faith and be lost. You have yet to address the first of these (1 Tim. 4:1)

Westtexas

 

[smaller]

I'll address all your sets of verses 1 at a time but none of them have done anything to support the doctrine of OSAS. In this verse, just as in the verse in John 5 that you provided earlier, every verb (hear, know and follow) is in the present active tense. Just as in John 5 it denotes an action that is currently taking place. As long as we are believing, hearing, following, etc., scripture promises us eternal life.
I'll let you prove me wrong but I don't believe you can post scripture that says someone who has believed (in the past tense) and has quit believing is still promised eternal life. I'll provide numerous scriptures to the contrary though. I believe scripture says you can walk away from the faith and be lost. You have yet to address the first of these (1 Tim. 4:1)

Westtexas

There is no doubt any believer can fall victim to the powers of darkness in this present life.

Fact is however that there is not one named example of any N.T. believer shown to be in or going to the lake of fire/eternal hell. No, not one specific example.

It was in fact over Israel's hardened heart that the Gospel went to Gentiles.

Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Believers who 'don't know' that they 'have' eternal life don't really even know if they are saved.

How can such be sure of anything of salvation?

They can't in my ears.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[JMJ]

There is no doubt any believer can fall victim to the powers of darkness in this present life.

Fact is however that there is not one named example of any N.T. believer shown to be in or going to the lake of fire/eternal hell. No, not one specific example.

It was in fact over Israel's hardened heart that the Gospel went to Gentiles.

Acts 13:46
Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Believers who 'don't know' that they 'have' eternal life don't really even know if they are saved.

How can such be sure of anything of salvation?

They can't in my ears.

enjoy!

smaller

A person's sinful actions judge him.

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.â€

Titus 3:10-11 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

No person currently alive on earth can have absolute certainty that he will inherit eternal life after he dies. A person must remain faithful to God's commandments until he dies if he desires to enter into eternal life.

Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Jesus gives us the criterion for admittance into eternal life:

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.â€


Jesus never, ever lies.
IF a person is condemned, he is definitely going into the lake of fire.

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire—