Eternal Security of the Believer !

[Ernest T. Bass]

bass



Faith is a result of being begotten of God ! Can't you read ? Peter says we have been begotten again unto a Lively Hope, which is Faith !

What verse(s) say one is first born again then believes or that one is born again while still in unbelief?

When Peter said we have been begotten again, the "we" refers to Christians who first believed then were born again.

 

[savedbygrace57]

bass

But Jn
3:16 still makes belief a condition to not perishing.

Jn 3:16 says nothing against 1 Pet 1:3-5, which teaches where believing comes from, it comes from the new Birth !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

bass



Jn 3:16 says nothing against 1 Pet 1:3-5, which teaches where believing comes from, it comes from the new Birth !

Neither verse says one is born again before he believes. Rom 10:9 says "...and shalt believe in thine heart" so belief comes from within the heart.

 

[savedbygrace57]

What verse(s) say one is first born again then believes or that one is born again while still in unbelief?

When Peter said we have been begotten again, the "we" refers to Christians who first believed then were born again.

Sorry, their faith, Hope came from being born again. Read what it says 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope or faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That word hope is also translated faith here Heb 10:23

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

So Peter can write 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Also the same word hope is used when Paul says we are saved by hope Rom 8:24

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Sorry, their faith, Hope came from being born again. Read what it says 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope or faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That word hope is also translated faith here Heb 10:23

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

So Peter can write 1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Also the same word hope is used when Paul says we are saved by hope Rom 8:24

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

unto a lively hope or faith

I noticed you try and change hope to faith.

 

[mcgyver]

Just to lighten things up....I'm amused that out of that whole post, John 3:16 has started a run in a whole new direction!

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Just to lighten things up....I'm amused that out of that whole post, John 3:16 has started a run in a whole new direction!

savedbygrace57 likes to have certain people first saved/born again then have faith after they are saved and Jn 3:16 does not help his theology.

 

[mcgyver]

I was actually really trying to figure out what was going on...

Maybe I should have used Romans 10:9-10...

 

[savedbygrace57]

unto a lively hope or faith

I noticed you try and change hope to faith.

Yes, they are the same thing ! Faith is

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Agape]

Yes, they are the same thing ! Faith is

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You mean Paul did not know that faith and hope meant the same thing when he wrote, "And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love." (1 Cor. 13:13)
It says these three (faith, hope, love), not these two, right?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Yes, they are the same thing ! Faith is

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

"begotten us again unto a lively hope" THe one who has been begotten is a child of God, God is His Father. God is not the Father of unbelievers and unbelievers are not the children of God, unbelief does not make one a child of God. And having been born again or begotten of God means one has the hope given to them by that new birth. Those who are begotten have hope of salvation through Christ's resurrection.

Can you show me an example of one who had been begotten/born again but was an unbeliever?

 

[savedbygrace57]

bass

begotten us again unto a lively hope"

Yes, or Unto a Lively Faith, its the same thing !

 

[savedbygrace57]

bass

Can you show me an example of one who had been begotten/born again but was an
unbeliever?

I am going to show you what the Word of God says 1 Pet 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope or faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If you do not believe the scripture of Truth, thats tuff !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

bass



I am going to show you what the Word of God says 1 Pet 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope or faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If you do not believe the scripture of Truth, thats tuff !

1 Pet 1:3-5 does not say one is born again before they believe and that is the reason you cannot show one example of it.

1 Jn 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."

One cannot be born of God unless he first conditionally believes.

 

[savedbygrace57]

1 Pet 1:3-5 does not say one is born again before they believe and that is the reason you cannot show one example of it.

1 Jn 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."

One cannot be born of God unless he first conditionally believes.

I am going to show you what the Word of God says 1 Pet 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope or faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If you do not believe the scripture of Truth, thats tuff !

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 5:1-2 Teaches Eternal Security !


Rom 5:1-2

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

When one considers the original of this Paul writes after stating Justification by faith, he goes on to write :

"we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand"

The word have, as in we have access [admission , approach] is the greek word echo means hold, possess and it is a perfect ind active, denoting we have permanent access by Faith into this grace ! This only confirms that the Just [made so by Christ's blood] shall permanently live by faith for the entirety of their converted lives, but also Paul follows up with ' into this Grace wherein we stand ! The word stand is the greek word histémi: and means:

I cause to stand, stand

to make to stand, to stand


This word also in the greek is in the perfect tense which corresponds to mean in which we permanently stand in Grace !

Paul is teaching here that the one Justified by faith is permanently in a state of Grace before God, and whose Hope now is the Glory of God !

Those whom God gives Grace, He also gives Glory ! Ps 84:11

For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I am going to show you what the Word of God says 1 Pet 1:3-5

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope or faith by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

If you do not believe the scripture of Truth, thats tuff !

You are showing me how you CHANGE what 1 Pet 1:1-3 says. You keep changing the word faith to hope. Faith includes hope but hope without faith cannot save for one cannot hope to be saved while not having faith in Christ.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Rom 5:1-2 Teaches Eternal Security !


Rom 5:1-2

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

When one considers the original of this Paul writes after stating Justification by faith, he goes on to write :

"we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand"

The word have, as in we have access [admission , approach] is the greek word echo means hold, possess and it is a perfect ind active, denoting we have permanent access by Faith into this grace ! This only confirms that the Just [made so by Christ's blood] shall permanently live by faith for the entirety of their converted lives, but also Paul follows up with ' into this Grace wherein we stand ! The word stand is the greek word histémi: and means:

I cause to stand, stand

to make to stand, to stand


This word also in the greek is in the perfect tense which corresponds to mean in which we permanently stand in Grace !

Paul is teaching here that the one Justified by faith is permanently in a state of Grace before God, and whose Hope now is the Glory of God !

Those whom God gives Grace, He also gives Glory ! Ps 84:11

For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

It was determined in the past by God before the world began that those who have faith would stand in His grace. So as long as one has faith he will forever and always stand in God's grace. But if one loses his faith or leaves the faith 1 Tim 4:1 1 Tim 5:12 then he is no longer in that foreknow group that are in grace. By no longer having faith one no longer has access to grace. So it is not possible for one to cast off his faith and still be saved/in God's grace.

 

[iLOVE]

The moment you become saved, your spirit is sealed to preserve your righteousness and to prevent sin from ever entering in (Ephesians 1:13). If you do sin after you become born again, your spirit cannot participate, because it has been perfected in righteousness forever by the Holy Ghost.

But you must renew your mind. Your soul, or your mind, still contains sin residue from your old nature, the one you had before you got saved. Your way of thinking was trained by your former self. The first thing a person should do after becoming born again is renew his or her mind. This is an ongoing process—one that must be done daily by meditating upon the Word of God! It is also how you effectively put on the new man, which the Bible talks about in Ephesians 4:23, 24: “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

Just think, you possess the divine nature of God! As a Christian, you have 100% God DNA in you! This is not saying you are God. However, when you receive Christ, you receive God’s very own DNA into your spirit. Therefore, you are a partaker of His fullness. And as a new creature in Christ Jesus, God unites Himself with your spirit. First Corinthians 6:17 tells us, “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” How wonderful that is! The instant you become born again, your spirit man and God become one!

 

[Cassian]

The moment you become saved, your spirit is sealed to preserve your righteousness and to prevent sin from ever entering in (Ephesians 1:13). If you do sin after you become born again, your spirit cannot participate, because it has been perfected in righteousness forever by the Holy Ghost.

But you must renew your mind. Your soul, or your mind, still contains sin residue from your old nature, the one you had before you got saved. Your way of thinking was trained by your former self. The first thing a person should do after becoming born again is renew his or her mind. This is an ongoing process—one that must be done daily by meditating upon the Word of God! It is also how you effectively put on the new man, which the Bible talks about in Ephesians 4:23, 24: “And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”

Just think, you possess the divine nature of God! As a Christian, you have 100% God DNA in you! This is not saying you are God. However, when you receive Christ, you receive God’s very own DNA into your spirit. Therefore, you are a partaker of His fullness. And as a new creature in Christ Jesus, God unites Himself with your spirit. First Corinthians 6:17 tells us, “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.” How wonderful that is! The instant you become born again, your spirit man and God become one!

A word of caution here. As I understand what you are saying is the perfect definition of Gnosticism. I would check out Gnosticism to see if that is actually what you want to say here.